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    Default Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    A friend of mine started talking about using hidden daggers and somehow that grew into this a dagger-wielding primary melee combatant. I'm not sure about the damage capability, especially of the 2 weapon fighting specialist, and would like some advice and critique on this. I don't have any fluff yet, except a general idea of them as street-alley fighters.
    Daggerstrike Adept Traits
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    HD: d8.
    Skills per level: 4 + Int.
    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: A daggerstrike adept is proficient in all light simple weapons, all ranged simple weapons, and light armor, but have are not proficient with any shields.


    Level Table
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    Daggerstrike Adept
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +1d6

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Dagger Quick Draw

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Style Initiate

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +2d6

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Uncanny Dodge,

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Agile Strike

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +3d6, A Thousand Cuts

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Dagger Feint

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Improved Uncanny Dodge

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +4d6, Destroying Strike

    11th|
    +11
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Style Adept

    12th|
    +12
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Dagger Quick Draw Strike

    13th|
    +13
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +5d6

    14th|
    +14
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Disrupting Strike, Improved Thousand Cuts

    15th|
    +15
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +6d6

    16th|
    +16
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Darting Attack

    17th|
    +17
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |See the Opportunity

    18th|
    +18
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    19th|
    +19
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Dagger Sneak Attack +7d6

    20th|
    +20
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Style Mastery[/table]


    Daggerstrike Adept Class Features:
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    Dagger Sneak Attack: This ability functions as sneak attack except only with daggers, punching daggers, and kukri. You count as a rogue of your level for overcoming improved uncanny dodge and similar effects. You may also use this ability to fulfill any prerequisites requiring sneak attack.
    Dagger Quick Draw: At 2nd level you learn to quickly your weapon of choice. You gain Quick Draw as a bonus feat but can only use it with daggers, kukri, and punching daggers.
    Style Initiate: Starting at 3rd level you select one style of combat and gain an associated benefit. This decides your Style Adept and Style Mastery as well and once made cannot be changed. This benefit only applies when wielding daggers, kukri or punching daggers; this benefit only applies when wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.
    Thrown: You have a 30-ft range increment with daggers, this only applies to weapons that already have thrown range increments. Starting at 10th level you gain an extra +2 to attack and damage within 1 range increment.
    2 Weapons: You gain two-weapon fighting feat when wielding daggers (this is a virtual feat), and can make an attack with both daggers as a standard action; at 6th level you gain Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat and at 11th level you gain Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat.
    1 Dagger: You gain evasion, at 10th level this becomes improved evasion; this ability functions as long as you have no weapon other than a dagger held and are wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.
    Uncanny Dodge: At 4th level your senses are so attuned that you can react to danger without conscious awareness. As barbarian ability.
    Agile Strike: Starting at 5th level when wielding a dagger, kukri, or punching dagger, and wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield. you may add your Dexterity bonus to all damage rolls with daggers, kukri, and punching daggers.
    A Thousand Cuts: At 7th level you have gained such speed and finesse with your daggers that you can make an extra attack at your highest attack bonus whenever you make a full-attack action.
    Dagger Feint: At 8th level you may feint with a dagger (or kukri or punching dagger) as a move action when wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.. If you have the Improved Feint feat you can instead feint as a swift action.
    Improved Uncanny Dodge: At 9th level you gain improved uncanny dodge as barbarian ability.
    Destroying Strike: At 10th level a dagger strike adept has learned to strike in such a way that even creatures which normally seemingly have no weak spots can be easily destroyed. When a daggerstrike adept makes a dagger sneak attack against a creature which would normally be immune he instead deals 3 less dice of sneak attack damage.
    Style Adept: At 11th level you gain the second level of your style ability. Like the first level this only applies when wielding a dagger, kukri, or punching dagger and when you are wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.
    Thrown: You can sneak attack with a thrown dagger at up to 2 range increments.
    2 Weapons: No penalty to attack rolls when wielding 2 daggers.
    1 Dagger: You may make a 5-ft step at any point during a full-attack action or cleave when you are wielding only 1 dagger.
    Dagger Quick Draw Strike: At 12th level you may draw a dagger you have hidden with the Sleight of Hand skill as a swift action, if you do so you may make a Sleight of Hand check opposed by your opponent’s spot check as part of drawing the dagger and if you win the target loses its Dex bonus against your next attack if you make it before the end of your turn and without moving. You may only use this ability when wielding a dagger, kukri, or punching dagger, and when wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.
    Disrupting Strike: At 14th level you have become so skilled at disrupting foes with your attacks that it has become significantly more difficult for beings struck by you to concentrate. If you damage a character performing an action which requires a check when damaged (such as casting a spell or climbing) the DC of the check is increased by your class level. This ability only applies to damage dealt with a dagger, kukri, or punching dagger.
    Improved Thousand Cuts: At 14th level your mastery of daggers has risen such that you can make an extra 2 attacks with it at your highest attack bonus whenever you make a full attack, or an extra attack at your highest attack bonus whenever you make an attack as a standard action.
    Darting Attack: At 16th level your speed and agility has become such that 3 + your Dex modifier times per day may make a full attack after taking a move action or at the end of a charge.
    See the Opportunity: At 17th level you have become adept at seeing the openings left by foes; the DC to use any skill to prevent you from gaining an Attack of Opportunity (such as casting a spell defensively, or tumbling past you) is increased by your class level.
    Critical Blow: At 19th level you have become a mastery of striking your foes devastating blows. Whenever you score a critical hit on a target it must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Dexterity modifier) or be dazed for 1 round.
    Style Mastery: At 20th level you have reached the pinnacle of your skill obtaining the ultimate ability of your style. Like the lower level versions this only works with a dagger, kukri, or punching dagger and when you are wearing light or no armor and carrying a light load and not wearing a shield.
    Thrown: Your daggers cripple foes; whenever you hit an opponent with a thrown dagger it suffers a -1 to AC per hit until the end of your next turn. These stack with each other within a single turn, but those used during other turns to not stack with each other.
    2 Weapons (Shower of Blood): +3 precision damage/hit when you attack with 2 daggers in melee. This does not apply against creatures immune to critical hits.
    1 Dagger: When you make a full attack on a single target you gain +5 dodge bonus to AC and a +5 competence bonus to Reflex until the end of your next turn.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2009-09-13 at 06:13 PM.

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    Melayl's Avatar

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    This class seems interesting. I'd have to review it further, but it is difficult to read in the current format. The Guide to Homebrewing is a helpful guide to format a class (or anything else). Halfway down the first post is a formatting template for base classes.

    I do like the idea of a dagger-wielding character. It seems a wee bit weak on first read, though.

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    Thanks, I reformatted the table and put the ability names in bold in their descriptions.

    Any advice on how to make it more powerful? I'd give it full sneak attack but, besides being rogue's main thing already, I stopped and thought about the damage a 2 weapon fighter would deal with superior invisibility and +10d6/hit with full gear too although that would be a way to up their power. I especially want to get rid of the dead levels, but I couldn't think of good abilities for them.

    One idea is maybe I should make more style specific abilities, especially since right now it seems like the two-weapon one just deals so much more damage than the others to be the only choice. This might be because I love the image of a guy with two daggers carving up a dragon. Then again it has to take 2 feats to be played and maybe I should grant them those feats as well (and give the other styles abilities to bring them up to the two dagger specialist).

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    Well, I'd suggest removing "Class Ability" from each row of the table. Also, if the class theme is using hidden daggers, I''d suggest making some abilities for things like additional hidden daggers (such as blades in the boots) aside from the ones in their hand, as well as the ability to throw their daggers and pull out more they have concealed on their body.

    Another thought is if you had them fight with one dagger and keep the other hidden allowing them to make feints and surprise enemies with the second dagger to gain sneak attack damage when they otherwise wouldn't (but with reduced hit since it would be the off hand and the main hand would just be making a feint.

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    Last edited by Owrtho; 2009-09-10 at 11:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    Ok, upon further review, I have a few more comments.

    I think it looks a little weak, honestly. Even compared to a Fighter of the same level. I don't think it would be out of line to give all 3 mastery abilities to them. If you'd like, you can have them gain one at 3rd and one additional at 11th and 20th.

    I would also suggest giving them other bonus feats in the Two-weapon fighting line, as well as the Two-weapon defense line, at about the same time that the Ranger gets them. Two-Weapon Rend would be another option. Weapon Focus or Specialization would be good, too.

    Other abilities you could look at would be things like:

    "A Thousand Cuts" : Gain the Flurry of Attacks ability as a Monk of 4 (or some other number of) levels lower, only with the class's chosen weapons.

    "Twist the Knife" : Any time you score and confirm a crit with the class's chosen weapons, you further wound the victim, causing them to lose 1 HP per round until Healed. Multiple hits are cumulative.

    Just suggestions.

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    Hey, I made a class based around the same concept, focusing on wielding light weapons have a look, maybe you will get some ideas.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95864

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Melayl
    "A Thousand Cuts" : Gain the Flurry of Attacks ability as a Monk of 4 (or some other number of) levels lower, only with the class's chosen weapons.
    I gave them extra attacks per round with daggers at no penalty gaining 1 at 7th and a 2nd one at 14th. It might be a little better at points than flurry and is worse at others. The 14th level version also allows a 2nd attack with a standard attack.

    I also gave them the ability to use a full-attack after moving so many times per day. I hope this isn't too strong with the other ability and improved or superior invisibility or just flanking (up to 9 sneak attacks; probably only 5). Then again they can't use Power Attack at least.

    Finally I'm thinking about giving them an ability to instead of dealing extra damage on a crit instead applying some type of disadvantageous condition similar to ambush feats, and maybe allowing them to use Dex instead of Str for damage at some point.

    Edit: I also improved Style Initiate abilities so that they gain Improved Evasion, more two-weapon fighting feats, or improved point blank damage as they level up. Also changed Cunning Strike to Agile Strike making Dex actually add to damage (and making it function on creatures normally immune to sneak attack), and gave them the ability to use sneak attack at -3d6 against creatures normally immune.
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2009-09-13 at 02:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Daggerstrike Adept (Core class, 3.5e,PEACH)

    I filled in the dead level (19th) with

    Critical Blow: At 19th level you have become a mastery of striking your foes devastating blows. Whenever you score a critical hit on a target it must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Dexterity modifier) or be dazed for 1 round.

    I don't think it is too strong compared to anything a wizard has but at this point these guys ought to be doing some good melee damage. Even against something that is immune to critical hits they can deal 1d4 + Str + Dex + magic + (if flanking or invisible) 4d6 damage per hit and get 9 attacks... that sounds like a lot compared to your choice of fighter or barbarian... although I become increasingly convinced fighter is too weak.

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