[3.5] What would the Will Save DC be for a marriage proposal be?

[Pika...]

I know, odd question, but it will be on my mind for a while now.

Anyway, I am guessing it would be an (EX) ability against the female of a species (unless you are a Gnoll or something...).


I imagine certain modifiers and such would apply as well? Perhaps a -2 to her save for every year she is past 29? Or a +2 to her save for every point of Charisma/Comeliness she has above 10(the Human average) to represent her "holding out" for a better suitor?

[SparkMandriller]

lol you so funny XD

[Curmudgeon]

Nah, you got it all wrong. It's a Reflex save for the proposer to duck!

[Enguhl]

Nah, you got it all wrong. It's a Reflex save for the proposer to duck!

I think it would be a reflex save to see if they get to keep their dex to AC. Otherwise they are treated as flat footed (due to the kneeling and being caught off guard) and they then hope the didn't propose to a rogue...

[golentan]

Yea-no. Just no. A marriage proposal is not and never should be a charm person effect.

A serious answer: RP it.

A nonserious answer: You failed the will save, and now must marry the Incubus/Succubus. Prepare for massive, massive level drain.

[Pika...]

A nonserious answer: You failed the will save, and now must marry the Incubus/Succubus. Prepare for massive, massive level drain.

Hey. What if the Succubus actually falls for the guy, and wants to keep him around?

[kamikasei]

Hey. What if the Succubus actually falls for the guy, and wants to keep him around?

Then she does. What's the question?

[SparkMandriller]

Succubus girl = my waifu


(She can be all tsun at me because she's meant to be giving me negative levels instead of loving me, it'll be astonishingly moe.)

[Grumman]

Hey. What if the Succubus actually falls for the guy, and wants to keep him around?

Then you're living in a fantasy world. And not the good sort of fantasy world, with fortresses and flying buzzsaw swarms, I'm talking about the ones with rainbow unicorns and forests infested with talking vermin.

[ghost_warlock]

The succubus scenario is actually a good model for how a marriage proposal actually works: the proposer is the one who's forced to make a Will save.

Essentially, the succubus uses suggestion: propose to me.

Hopefully, the succubus' intentions were benign and she'll say 'yes.' Sometimes, however, she forces the proposal just so she can say 'no' and humiliate the poor sap.

[Pika...]

Then she does. What's the question?

Would the poor bloke survive the marriage?

[Myou]

What the f....

I really hope you're joking, because making a player make a will save to play their character the way they want would be some of the worst DMing imaginiable.

I'd flat out refuse to roll and tell you to get lost. -_-

[ghost_warlock]

What the f....

I really hope you're joking, because making a player make a will save to play their character the way they want would be some of the worst DMing imaginiable.

I'd flat out refuse to roll and tell you to get lost. -_-

So...monsters in your campaigns never use charm, suggestion, or dominate spells/abilities?

Heck, do you also tell your DM to get lost if an opponent knocks your character unconscious in combat?

[Myou]

So...monsters in your campaigns never use charm, suggestion, or dominate spells/abilities?

Heck, do you also tell your DM to get lost if an opponent knocks your character unconscious in combat?

So... you don't undertand the difference between a marriage proposal and a Charm Person spell?

[ghost_warlock]

So... you don't undertand the difference between a marriage proposal and a Charm Person spell?

You're right, it should really be resisted by a Sense Motive check, not a Will save.

[Myou]

You're right, it should really be resisted by a Sense Motive check, not a Will save.

Now I'm confused. o.o

[ghost_warlock]

Now I'm confused. o.o

A marriage proposal is really more like a complex Diplomacy/Bluff check.

[Grey Paladin]

Now that's just low. You shouldn't throw Save-or-dies at players unless they have an access to a way to prevent it, like Death Ward.

[Myou]

A marriage proposal is really more like a complex Diplomacy/Bluff check.

I'd just roleplay it.

Girl: "Myou, will you marry me?"

Me: "Hell no."

[Saph]

Now that's just low. You shouldn't throw Save-or-dies at players unless they have an access to a way to prevent it, like Death Ward.

Marriage Ward?

Protection from Courting?

Resist Proposal?

[kamikasei]

Would the poor bloke survive the marriage?

If she wants him to.

[Longcat]

Marriage proposal save DC:

19+your primary casting stat modifier+anything you have that boosts your Enchantment DCs

Some refer to it as Mindrape. I refer to it as a marriage proposal.

[SparkMandriller]

Oh, mindrape. Is there anything you can't do?

[Longcat]

Oh, mindrape. Is there anything you can't do?

The sky's the limit

[The Neoclassic]

A couple of things...

A Will save doesn't seem appropriate. Those are generally only used against spell-like or supernatural abilities. A marriage proposal is neither.

If we're talking about PCs, note that you can't force them into making decisions about such things (or shouldn't, at least). For example, if an NPC rolls very high on his Bluff or Diplomacy check, you describe the NPC's speech and apparent intent accordingly, not what the player then decides. One may have NPCs be convinced after a few rolls, but it doesn't work like that for players.

Finally, one can purposefully fail any save at will, can't they? And if it's two individuals who love each other, I can't imagine turning it into such an antagonistic opposing-checks situation. The only case I *might* be able to see marriage being determined by a roll is if an evil PC has been manipulating and seducing an NPC, and then he finally professes his love (Bluff check) and proposes to her (Diplomacy check). At this point, she might do an opposed Sense Motive check or such to see if she accepts.

[Keshay]

Whatever the save / check DC is, it should be modified by the quality of the offered engagement gift. (The nicer the ring, the better the modifier).

[Melamoto]

The sky's the limit

Not even that if you Mindrape a dragon or something.

[Kylarra]

Marriage Ward?

Protection from Courting?

Resist Proposal?

Detect Suitor.

[ZeroNumerous]

... Bluff or Diplomacy check, you describe the NPC's speech and apparent intent accordingly, not what the player then decides ...

A: Serious post is serious.

B: Diplomacy cannot be used on player characters to begin with.

EDIT and jumping on the bandwagon:

Detect Suitor.

Marriage Armor.

Suitorial Anchor.

Antiproposal Field.

Globe of Unsuitability.

And for the divorces:

Break Marriage

Dispel Marriage and Greater Dispel Marriage.

[The Neoclassic]

A: Serious post is serious.

I don't see anything wrong with taking it seriously, since it was initially posed in a semiserious fashion.

B: Diplomacy cannot be used on player characters to begin with.

I don't have my DM's guide on me, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to use Diplomacy (though probably more like Burlew's rules of using it rather than the very, very limited "Better NPC attitudes" definition in the SRD) to represent how good of an impression an NPC makes on a character. How eloquent they seem, how reasonable the proposal comes across, etc. I'm aware that for straight-up "Influencing attitude from one category to another" NPCs can't use Diplomacy on PCs. PCs have complete control over what their characters think and feel, but the DMis in charge of what information they receive and how encounters (diplomatic and otherwise) are presented to them.

On the bright side, I actually made a marriage-related spell. On the not so bright side, it requires both participants to be willing.