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2009-09-10, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
So, I've checked around on google and I haven't found a calculator for the new Pathfinder version of Power Attack. If anyone here has, could you provide a link please?
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2009-09-10, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Germany
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Why would you want to use a calculator for it?
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2009-09-10, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
You don't need a calculator for Pathfinder Power Attack. (If you needed a calculator in 3.5, that's probably why they changed it...)
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2009-09-10, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2009-09-10 at 10:58 AM.
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2009-09-10, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Just to see whether or not you should actually be power attacking.
It would also really help me in my comparisons between the average damage output of a 3.5 fighter vs. a pathfinder fighter to see how the new system stacks up.Last edited by Thrawn183; 2009-09-10 at 10:58 AM.
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2009-09-10, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Last edited by Rixx; 2009-09-10 at 10:59 AM.
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2009-09-10, 11:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Soviet Canuckistan
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
I did the whole thing in spreadsheets. Depends on what the roll is that is needed to hit with your attack, as well as the number of iteratives you are swinging, as well as your base damage (since huge base damage means that losing attack roll hurts more).
I could throw it together as a google document and share it to you if you'd like (and if you have a gmail account). I was tinkering with adding critical hits, etc, but that seemed like overkill.Last edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-10 at 11:12 AM.
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2009-09-10, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Critical hits are kind of important if someone is say, wielding a falchion with improved critical. That's a 30% chance to threaten, and if you happen to have a class ability that automatically confirms...
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2009-09-10, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Soviet Canuckistan
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
They are important to total damage, but not much for what happens with power attack. A critical hit multiplies the base damage, most damage bonuses a power attacker uses, and the power attack damage - it seemed unecessary for the relative gains of power attacking.
If you are power attacking with characters with damage sources that don't multiply (for example, a sneak attack), then the critical hit begins to matter.
That was the logic. Not super hard to add critical hits into the calculation, but why bother if 99% of the time it won't make a difference. The people who power attack (or who care much about critical hits) typically don't have substantial amounts of non-multiplying damage. You wouldn't bother with a keen scimitar or improved critical (Dire Pick) if you are dealing all your damage from a sneak attack.Last edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-10 at 12:00 PM.
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2009-09-10, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
I don't read anything about light weapons in there anymore. I know it mentiones off-hand weapons, which are usually light, but they don't have to be.
So can a light weapon user theoretically use Power Attack?
Would it make sense for a dual wielding rogue?
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2009-09-10, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Soviet Canuckistan
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Yes. Not just theoretically, either. They really can ;)
It could. You'd need the 13 Str, and you'd have to work out whether the increase in damage were worth it. I doubt it is. Since your base damage is very high (say, 1d6 base + many d6 SA) it is very valuable to actually score a hit.
Math stuff:
SpoilerAssume you have 6d6 sneak attack (level 11?), a 14 strength (so you can get Power Attack if you want), TWF and Improved TWF, and a slightly magical pair of +1 shortswords. You're looking at 7d6+3(+2 on off hand) or so damage, or 27.5/26.5 damage per hit.
If you have any real chance of missing with your attacks (say you hit on a 4 with your main attacks, and with a 9 on your iteratives) you may lose more by taking a penalty to hit than you are gaining. You can take -3 to hit to gain +6/+3 damage. So, you compare your 85% chance and 60% chance to deal 24/23 damage with your 70% and 45% chances of dealing 30/26 damage.
0.85*(27.5+26.5)+0.6*(27.5+26.5) = 78.3 expected damage
0.7*(33.5+29.5)+0.45*(33.5+29.5) = 72.45 expected damage
So you lose out on your power attack in this case. You need to be pretty certain to land your attacks to make the small bonus to damage worth the penalty to your iteratives - if you get into the range where your primary attacks are 95% likely to hit you are looking at a bonus from PA.
I've left criticals out, but checking my spreadsheet the difference is minor - the shortsword expected damages jump to ~80 and ~75, still an edge for not power attackingLast edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-10 at 02:36 PM.
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2009-09-10, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- UTC -6
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2009-09-10, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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- Soviet Canuckistan
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
So Thrawn (or others) - if you want a google docs spreadsheet, let me know by PM, and I'll share a copy with you - I don't even think you need a gmail account, though I suspect I do need a valid email address to be able to share it.
I'll add the ability to handle sneak attack, criticals, etc.
Edit: Handling of non-multiplying damage and crits added.Last edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-10 at 02:28 PM.
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2009-09-10, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2004
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- Enterprise, Alabama
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
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2009-09-10, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
I just came up with some tables. See spoiler below.
Spoiler
Effective Increase to Damage Per Hit
Average Base Damage: 5
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 2.58 | 4.84 | 6.79 | 8.42 | 9.74 | 10.74
3 | 2.56 | 4.78 | 6.67 | 8.22 | 9.44 | 10.33
4 | 2.53 | 4.71 | 6.53 | 8.00 | 9.12 | 9.88
5 | 2.50 | 4.63 | 6.38 | 7.75 | 8.75 | 9.38
6 | 2.47 | 4.53 | 6.20 | 7.47 | 8.33 | 8.80
7 | 2.43 | 4.43 | 6.00 | 7.14 | 7.86 | 8.14
8 | 2.38 | 4.31 | 5.77 | 6.77 | 7.31 | 7.38
9 | 2.33 | 4.17 | 5.50 | 6.33 | 6.67 | 6.50
10 | 2.27 | 4.00 | 5.18 | 5.82 | 5.91 | 5.45
11 | 2.20 | 3.80 | 4.80 | 5.20 | 5.00 | 4.20
12 | 2.11 | 3.56 | 4.33 | 4.44 | 3.89 | 2.67
13 | 2.00 | 3.25 | 3.75 | 3.50 | 2.50 | 0.75
14 | 1.86 | 2.86 | 3.00 | 2.29 | 0.71 | -1.71
15 | 1.67 | 2.33 | 2.00 | 0.67 | -1.67 | -1.17
16 | 1.40 | 1.60 | 0.60 | -1.60 | -1.00 | -0.40
17 | 1.00 | 0.50 | -1.50 | -0.75 | 0.00 | 0.75
18 | 0.33 | -1.33 | -0.33 | 0.67 | 1.67 | 2.67
19 | -1.00 | 0.50 | 2.00 | 3.50 | 5.00 | 6.50 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 10
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 2.32 | 4.32 | 6.00 | 7.37 | 8.42 | 9.16
3 | 2.28 | 4.22 | 5.83 | 7.11 | 8.06 | 8.67
4 | 2.24 | 4.12 | 5.65 | 6.82 | 7.65 | 8.12
5 | 2.19 | 4.00 | 5.44 | 6.50 | 7.19 | 7.50
6 | 2.13 | 3.87 | 5.20 | 6.13 | 6.67 | 6.80
7 | 2.07 | 3.71 | 4.93 | 5.71 | 6.07 | 6.00
8 | 2.00 | 3.54 | 4.62 | 5.23 | 5.38 | 5.08
9 | 1.92 | 3.33 | 4.25 | 4.67 | 4.58 | 4.00
10 | 1.82 | 3.09 | 3.82 | 4.00 | 3.64 | 2.73
11 | 1.70 | 2.80 | 3.30 | 3.20 | 2.50 | 1.20
12 | 1.56 | 2.44 | 2.67 | 2.22 | 1.11 | -0.67
13 | 1.38 | 2.00 | 1.88 | 1.00 | -0.63 | -3.00
14 | 1.14 | 1.43 | 0.86 | -0.57 | -2.86 | -6.00
15 | 0.83 | 0.67 | -0.50 | -2.67 | -5.83 | -5.33
16 | 0.40 | -0.40 | -2.40 | -5.60 | -5.00 | -4.40
17 | -0.25 | -2.00 | -5.25 | -4.50 | -3.75 | -3.00
18 | -1.33 | -4.67 | -3.67 | -2.67 | -1.67 | -0.67
19 | -3.50 | -2.00 | -0.50 | 1.00 | 2.50 | 4.00 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 15
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 2.05 | 3.79 | 5.21 | 6.32 | 7.11 | 7.58
3 | 2.00 | 3.67 | 5.00 | 6.00 | 6.67 | 7.00
4 | 1.94 | 3.53 | 4.76 | 5.65 | 6.18 | 6.35
5 | 1.88 | 3.38 | 4.50 | 5.25 | 5.63 | 5.63
6 | 1.80 | 3.20 | 4.20 | 4.80 | 5.00 | 4.80
7 | 1.71 | 3.00 | 3.86 | 4.29 | 4.29 | 3.86
8 | 1.62 | 2.77 | 3.46 | 3.69 | 3.46 | 2.77
9 | 1.50 | 2.50 | 3.00 | 3.00 | 2.50 | 1.50
10 | 1.36 | 2.18 | 2.45 | 2.18 | 1.36 | 0.00
11 | 1.20 | 1.80 | 1.80 | 1.20 | 0.00 | -1.80
12 | 1.00 | 1.33 | 1.00 | 0.00 | -1.67 | -4.00
13 | 0.75 | 0.75 | 0.00 | -1.50 | -3.75 | -6.75
14 | 0.43 | 0.00 | -1.29 | -3.43 | -6.43 | -10.29
15 | 0.00 | -1.00 | -3.00 | -6.00 | -10.00 | -9.50
16 | -0.60 | -2.40 | -5.40 | -9.60 | -9.00 | -8.40
17 | -1.50 | -4.50 | -9.00 | -8.25 | -7.50 | -6.75
18 | -3.00 | -8.00 | -7.00 | -6.00 | -5.00 | -4.00
19 | -6.00 | -4.50 | -3.00 | -1.50 | 0.00 | 1.50 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 20
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 1.79 | 3.26 | 4.42 | 5.26 | 5.79 | 6.00
3 | 1.72 | 3.11 | 4.17 | 4.89 | 5.28 | 5.33
4 | 1.65 | 2.94 | 3.88 | 4.47 | 4.71 | 4.59
5 | 1.56 | 2.75 | 3.56 | 4.00 | 4.06 | 3.75
6 | 1.47 | 2.53 | 3.20 | 3.47 | 3.33 | 2.80
7 | 1.36 | 2.29 | 2.79 | 2.86 | 2.50 | 1.71
8 | 1.23 | 2.00 | 2.31 | 2.15 | 1.54 | 0.46
9 | 1.08 | 1.67 | 1.75 | 1.33 | 0.42 | -1.00
10 | 0.91 | 1.27 | 1.09 | 0.36 | -0.91 | -2.73
11 | 0.70 | 0.80 | 0.30 | -0.80 | -2.50 | -4.80
12 | 0.44 | 0.22 | -0.67 | -2.22 | -4.44 | -7.33
13 | 0.13 | -0.50 | -1.88 | -4.00 | -6.88 | -10.50
14 | -0.29 | -1.43 | -3.43 | -6.29 | -10.00 | -14.57
15 | -0.83 | -2.67 | -5.50 | -9.33 | -14.17 | -13.67
16 | -1.60 | -4.40 | -8.40 | -13.60 | -13.00 | -12.40
17 | -2.75 | -7.00 | -12.75 | -12.00 | -11.25 | -10.50
18 | -4.67 | -11.33 | -10.33 | -9.33 | -8.33 | -7.33
19 | -8.50 | -7.00 | -5.50 | -4.00 | -2.50 | -1.00 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 25
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 1.53 | 2.74 | 3.63 | 4.21 | 4.47 | 4.42
3 | 1.44 | 2.56 | 3.33 | 3.78 | 3.89 | 3.67
4 | 1.35 | 2.35 | 3.00 | 3.29 | 3.24 | 2.82
5 | 1.25 | 2.13 | 2.63 | 2.75 | 2.50 | 1.88
6 | 1.13 | 1.87 | 2.20 | 2.13 | 1.67 | 0.80
7 | 1.00 | 1.57 | 1.71 | 1.43 | 0.71 | -0.43
8 | 0.85 | 1.23 | 1.15 | 0.62 | -0.38 | -1.85
9 | 0.67 | 0.83 | 0.50 | -0.33 | -1.67 | -3.50
10 | 0.45 | 0.36 | -0.27 | -1.45 | -3.18 | -5.45
11 | 0.20 | -0.20 | -1.20 | -2.80 | -5.00 | -7.80
12 | -0.11 | -0.89 | -2.33 | -4.44 | -7.22 | -10.67
13 | -0.50 | -1.75 | -3.75 | -6.50 | -10.00 | -14.25
14 | -1.00 | -2.86 | -5.57 | -9.14 | -13.57 | -18.86
15 | -1.67 | -4.33 | -8.00 | -12.67 | -18.33 | -17.83
16 | -2.60 | -6.40 | -11.40 | -17.60 | -17.00 | -16.40
17 | -4.00 | -9.50 | -16.50 | -15.75 | -15.00 | -14.25
18 | -6.33 | -14.67 | -13.67 | -12.67 | -11.67 | -10.67
19 | -11.00 | -9.50 | -8.00 | -6.50 | -5.00 | -3.50 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 30
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 1.26 | 2.21 | 2.84 | 3.16 | 3.16 | 2.84
3 | 1.17 | 2.00 | 2.50 | 2.67 | 2.50 | 2.00
4 | 1.06 | 1.76 | 2.12 | 2.12 | 1.76 | 1.06
5 | 0.94 | 1.50 | 1.69 | 1.50 | 0.94 | 0.00
6 | 0.80 | 1.20 | 1.20 | 0.80 | 0.00 | -1.20
7 | 0.64 | 0.86 | 0.64 | 0.00 | -1.07 | -2.57
8 | 0.46 | 0.46 | 0.00 | -0.92 | -2.31 | -4.15
9 | 0.25 | 0.00 | -0.75 | -2.00 | -3.75 | -6.00
10 | 0.00 | -0.55 | -1.64 | -3.27 | -5.45 | -8.18
11 | -0.30 | -1.20 | -2.70 | -4.80 | -7.50 | -10.80
12 | -0.67 | -2.00 | -4.00 | -6.67 | -10.00 | -14.00
13 | -1.13 | -3.00 | -5.63 | -9.00 | -13.13 | -18.00
14 | -1.71 | -4.29 | -7.71 | -12.00 | -17.14 | -23.14
15 | -2.50 | -6.00 | -10.50 | -16.00 | -22.50 | -22.00
16 | -3.60 | -8.40 | -14.40 | -21.60 | -21.00 | -20.40
17 | -5.25 | -12.00 | -20.25 | -19.50 | -18.75 | -18.00
18 | -8.00 | -18.00 | -17.00 | -16.00 | -15.00 | -14.00
19 | -13.50 | -12.00 | -10.50 | -9.00 | -7.50 | -6.00 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 35
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 1.00 | 1.68 | 2.05 | 2.11 | 1.84 | 1.26
3 | 0.89 | 1.44 | 1.67 | 1.56 | 1.11 | 0.33
4 | 0.76 | 1.18 | 1.24 | 0.94 | 0.29 | -0.71
5 | 0.63 | 0.88 | 0.75 | 0.25 | -0.63 | -1.88
6 | 0.47 | 0.53 | 0.20 | -0.53 | -1.67 | -3.20
7 | 0.29 | 0.14 | -0.43 | -1.43 | -2.86 | -4.71
8 | 0.08 | -0.31 | -1.15 | -2.46 | -4.23 | -6.46
9 | -0.17 | -0.83 | -2.00 | -3.67 | -5.83 | -8.50
10 | -0.45 | -1.45 | -3.00 | -5.09 | -7.73 | -10.91
11 | -0.80 | -2.20 | -4.20 | -6.80 | -10.00 | -13.80
12 | -1.22 | -3.11 | -5.67 | -8.89 | -12.78 | -17.33
13 | -1.75 | -4.25 | -7.50 | -11.50 | -16.25 | -21.75
14 | -2.43 | -5.71 | -9.86 | -14.86 | -20.71 | -27.43
15 | -3.33 | -7.67 | -13.00 | -19.33 | -26.67 | -26.17
16 | -4.60 | -10.40 | -17.40 | -25.60 | -25.00 | -24.40
17 | -6.50 | -14.50 | -24.00 | -23.25 | -22.50 | -21.75
18 | -9.67 | -21.33 | -20.33 | -19.33 | -18.33 | -17.33
19 | -16.00 | -14.50 | -13.00 | -11.50 | -10.00 | -8.50 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 40
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 0.74 | 1.16 | 1.26 | 1.05 | 0.53 | -0.32
3 | 0.61 | 0.89 | 0.83 | 0.44 | -0.28 | -1.33
4 | 0.47 | 0.59 | 0.35 | -0.24 | -1.18 | -2.47
5 | 0.31 | 0.25 | -0.19 | -1.00 | -2.19 | -3.75
6 | 0.13 | -0.13 | -0.80 | -1.87 | -3.33 | -5.20
7 | -0.07 | -0.57 | -1.50 | -2.86 | -4.64 | -6.86
8 | -0.31 | -1.08 | -2.31 | -4.00 | -6.15 | -8.77
9 | -0.58 | -1.67 | -3.25 | -5.33 | -7.92 | -11.00
10 | -0.91 | -2.36 | -4.36 | -6.91 | -10.00 | -13.64
11 | -1.30 | -3.20 | -5.70 | -8.80 | -12.50 | -16.80
12 | -1.78 | -4.22 | -7.33 | -11.11 | -15.56 | -20.67
13 | -2.38 | -5.50 | -9.38 | -14.00 | -19.38 | -25.50
14 | -3.14 | -7.14 | -12.00 | -17.71 | -24.29 | -31.71
15 | -4.17 | -9.33 | -15.50 | -22.67 | -30.83 | -30.33
16 | -5.60 | -12.40 | -20.40 | -29.60 | -29.00 | -28.40
17 | -7.75 | -17.00 | -27.75 | -27.00 | -26.25 | -25.50
18 | -11.33 | -24.67 | -23.67 | -22.67 | -21.67 | -20.67
19 | -18.50 | -17.00 | -15.50 | -14.00 | -12.50 | -11.00 [/TABLE]
Average Base Damage: 45
(Column Headers = Penalty to Hit)
{TABLE] Roll Needed to Hit | -1 | -2 | -3 | -4 | -5 | -6
2 | 0.47 | 0.63 | 0.47 | 0.00 | -0.79 | -1.89
3 | 0.33 | 0.33 | 0.00 | -0.67 | -1.67 | -3.00
4 | 0.18 | 0.00 | -0.53 | -1.41 | -2.65 | -4.24
5 | 0.00 | -0.38 | -1.13 | -2.25 | -3.75 | -5.63
6 | -0.20 | -0.80 | -1.80 | -3.20 | -5.00 | -7.20
7 | -0.43 | -1.29 | -2.57 | -4.29 | -6.43 | -9.00
8 | -0.69 | -1.85 | -3.46 | -5.54 | -8.08 | -11.08
9 | -1.00 | -2.50 | -4.50 | -7.00 | -10.00 | -13.50
10 | -1.36 | -3.27 | -5.73 | -8.73 | -12.27 | -16.36
11 | -1.80 | -4.20 | -7.20 | -10.80 | -15.00 | -19.80
12 | -2.33 | -5.33 | -9.00 | -13.33 | -18.33 | -24.00
13 | -3.00 | -6.75 | -11.25 | -16.50 | -22.50 | -29.25
14 | -3.86 | -8.57 | -14.14 | -20.57 | -27.86 | -36.00
15 | -5.00 | -11.00 | -18.00 | -26.00 | -35.00 | -34.50
16 | -6.60 | -14.40 | -23.40 | -33.60 | -33.00 | -32.40
17 | -9.00 | -19.50 | -31.50 | -30.75 | -30.00 | -29.25
18 | -13.00 | -28.00 | -27.00 | -26.00 | -25.00 | -24.00
19 | -21.00 | -19.50 | -18.00 | -16.50 | -15.00 | -13.50 [/TABLE]
If your AB is equal or greater to the enemy's AC - i.e., free damage at no cost - then simply add the free damage to your base damage so that you still barely hit on a 2, and then consult the tables using the remainder of the PA penalty. If making a full attack, use your average AB when finding "roll needed to hit". So if your AB is 17/12/7, use 12. If it's 17/17/12/7, use (17+17+12+7)/4~=13. Probably something you want to figure out ahead of time if you get hasted a lot.Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-10 at 03:28 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2009-09-10, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
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- Soviet Canuckistan
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
@ericgrau; neat; I suppose I could have just done multiple tables, gets the main point across.
This is my spreadsheet :) I'll link it rather than put it in the post.
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3336/statsam.pngLast edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-10 at 03:45 PM.
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2009-09-10, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Hmm, I could make something in Excel spreadsheet format where you just punch in your stats and it tells you the maximum AC you should target. Then you just write down that number and you're good to go. Does anyone want me to make and e-mail them such a thing?
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2009-09-11, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
If anyone is good at calculus, there is a single clever formula that can tell you everything you need to know.
So... anyone good at calculus?
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2009-09-11, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Sounds like its just an optimization formula. Write out the attack formula (Have the Power Attack Penalty and damage as a variables. All other values will be constants that are represented by the variable. Solve for Damage), take the derivative, find points at which the derivative is = 0, compare to them to the area around them to find if they are max / mins, and find the maximum.
So...
Code:Math goes in here. I haven't looked at pathfinder, so I'm going to assume combat works just like 3.5. I'm treating PowerAttackPenalty as a NEGATIVE number. ChanceToHit = (21 - EnemyAC + PowerAttackPenalty + AttackBonus)/20 So if you need a 15 to hit (30%), this formula would give you (21-15)/20 = 30% If you need a 10 to hit (55%) this formula would give you (21-10)/20 = 55% DamageOnHit = AverageDamage+PowerAttackDamageBonus DamageOnCrit = DamageOnHit*Modifier Now, we need to express PowerAttackDamageBonus as a factor of PowerAttackPenalty. Case 1: One-Handed. PowerAttackDamageBonus = -2*PowerAttackPenalty. Case 2: Two-Handed. PowerAttackDamageBonus = -3*PowerAttackPenalty So, Make for a general case: PowerAttackDamageBonus = constant*PowerAttackPenalty Where Constant is -2 or -3 depending. So DamageOnAHit=AverageDamage+constant*PowerAttackPenalty DamageOnCrit=(AverageDamage+constant*PowerAttackPenalty)*Modifier I'm going to ignore a few edge cases (An attack that would score a threat, but does not hit AC, for example, or always hitting on a 20. These are best handled as special cases, which is simple if your using a computer.) TotalDamage = (ChanceToHit-ChanceToCrit)*DamageOnAHit+ChanceToCrit*ChanceToHit*DamageOnACrit. Expand it out. TotalDamage = ((21 - EnemyAC + PowerAttackPenalty + AttackBonus)/20 -ChanceToCrit) * (AverageDamage + constant * PowerAttackPenalty) + ChanceToCrit * ((21 - EnemyAC + PowerAttackPenalty + AttackBonus)/20 * (AverageDamage+constant*PowerAttackPenalty)*Modifier This is nasty, Lets simplify a Bit. TotalDamage = ((21 - EnemyAC + PowerAttackPenalty + AttackBonus - 20 * ChanceToCrit) (AverageDamage + constant * PowerAttackPenalty))/20 + ChanceToCrit * ((21 - EnemyAC + PowerAttackPenalty + AttackBonus) * (AverageDamage+constant*PowerAttackPenalty)*Modifier / 20 Multiply both sides by 20. Let C = AttackBonus - EnemyAC 20*TotalDamage = (21 + PowerAttackPenalty + C - 20 * ChanceToCrit) (AverageDamage + constant * PowerAttackPenalty) + ChanceToCrit * (21 + PowerAttackPenalty + C ) * (AverageDamage + constant * PowerAttackPenalty ) * Modifier Where Modifier is the Crit Modifier, Constant is -2 or -3 (Depending on handiness), and AC = AttackBonus-EnemyAC. I simplify the formula to a long abomination for the next step, It won't be shown. Treat Everything but TotalDamage and PowerAttackPenalty as Constants. Take Derivative of the abomination. You end up with: 20*TotalDamagePrime = AverageDamage + AverageDamage * Modifier * ChanceToCrit + 21 * Constant + 2 * Constant * PowerAttackPenalty + Constant * C - 20 * ChanceToCrit * Constant + 21 * Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit + 2 * Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit * PowerAttackPenalty + Constant * C * Modifier * ChanceToCrit Simplify it, find the points at which it equals to 0. Note, P is an Integer in [-6, -1]. PowerAttackPenalty = (20 * ChanceToCrit * Constant - AverageDamage - AverageDamage * ChanceToCrit - 21 * Constant - Constant * AttackBonus + Constant * EnemyAC - 21 * Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit - Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit * AttackBonus + Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit * EnemyAC)/(2*Constant + 2 * Constant * Modifier * ChanceToCrit)
Edit: There we go. I'm guessing that can be reduced a bit, But thats essentially the equation that you need to find the maximums. Note that Equation gives results that may be maximums OR are Minimums - This forms a line that damage always increases before or after a certain point.
Edit 2: Lets use this in an example
Say: Using a two-handed weapon (19-20/x2; AverageDamage 15) attacking AC 16, and you have a +5 Attack bonus normally.
Code:PowerAttackPenalty = (20 * 0.1 * -3 - 15 - 15 * 0.1 - 21 * -3 - -3 * 5 + -3 * 16 - 21 * -3 * 2 * 0.1 - -3 * 2 * 0.1 * 5 + -3 * 2 * 0.1 * 16)/(2*-3 + 2 * -3 * 2 * 0.1) PowerAttackPenalty = (-6 - 15 - 1.5 + 63 + 15 - 48 + 12.6 + 3 - 9.6)/(-6 -1.2) PowerAttackPenalty = 13.5/-7.2 = -1.875
Code:20*TotalDamagePrime = 15 + 15 * 2 * 0.1 + 21 * -3 + 2 * -3 * -1.7 + -3 * -11 - 20 * 0.1 * -3 + 21 * -3 * 2 * 0.1 + 2 * -3 * 2 * 0.1 * -1.7 + -3 * -11 * 2 * 0.1 This works out to be positive. So at values > -1.875 the damage is increasing. You'd want to power attack for 1. For Checking Purposes: 20*TotalDamagePrime = 15 + 15 * 2 * 0.1 + 21 * -3 + 2 * -3 * -1.7 + -3 * -11 - 20 * 0.1 * -3 + 21 * -3 * 2 * 0.1 + 2 * -3 * 2 * 0.1 * -1.7 + -3 * -11 * 2 * 0.1 Works out to positive as well. So at values < -1.875 the damage is increasing
Last edited by Gralamin; 2009-09-11 at 06:55 PM.
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2009-09-11, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Calculus is a poor tool for this problem:
1) You need several equations anyway, for the various situations (BAB <6, BAB 6-10, BAB 11-15, BAB 16+, for TWF, ITWF, GTWF, 2H, and 1H)
2) the functions are not continuous - they have discontinuities when to-hit exceeds 20 or drops below 2.Last edited by Epinephrine; 2009-09-11 at 06:52 PM.
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2009-09-11, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
1) I just followed information is given: You have a penalty from 1 to 6. Other then that, all that matters is the multiplication constant, which depends on Handiness.
2) Limited Domain, corner case formulas.
Granted, I'd just program it usually instead of doing calculus
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2009-09-11, 10:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Last edited by Doc Roc; 2009-09-11 at 10:20 PM.
Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
DocRoc: to?
Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.
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2009-09-11, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Pathfinder Power Attack Calculator?
Ow.... my brain...
I was never very good at math.Last edited by Raewyn; 2009-09-11 at 10:27 PM.
Awesome elfatar by Sneak.