Help with hijacking ToB :-)

[daggaz]

So I have a barbarian who is level one and will probably never live to see level three, but I want him to survive as long as possible. One of the ways he is going to die, is by losing his will save versus color spray, sleep, and the like. Obviously, I want to bump his will saves up.

Wisdom is stuck forever at 10. So at least I dont have a negative. I would go endurance/steadfast determination, but his con is only 16 and he is a whirling frenzier, so burning my only two spare feats for +3 will saves is just not going to happen. God I hate endurance, if only it was at least useful for anything besides being a stepping stone (yeah its vaguely nice in low level campaign where the DM plays tough by the rules, but otherwise...).

As I will probably never live to see 3rd (and we have retraining anyways), Iron Will is starting to look more and more useful. But... BLAH!

So I was poking around the internets, and I came across the Martial Study feat, which makes it look a whole lot like I could take the Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver from ToB.. I kinda like this idea. It already beats Iron Will by +1 to will thanks to my con mod, and even tho concentration is cross class, I can easily afford to bump it up every two levels. Not the worst thing in the world, yeah..

But umm... how does it work?? Its an immediate action, so I can use it as a defense on other folks' turns (dumb if you couldnt), but how exactly do you go about "recharging" it, or do you have to? I am very very new to ToB ideas..

Thanks..

[The Glyphstone]

It varies by the class. If you're a Warblade, spending a standard action to either make a normal attack or wave your sword around uselessly will recharge all your readied maneuvers. If you're a Swordsage, a full-round action will recharge one of your readied maneuvers. If you're a Crusader, you get a wonky and randomly rolled recharge system.

[AslanCross]

If he only has it through Martial Study, it's a 1/encounter deal.

[Tavar]

And if your class lacks a recharge system, you have to rest for 5 minutes before you can use it again.

Oh, also, you have to have an appropriate initiator level, in this case IL 1. Non-ToB classes only give .5 Initiator levels per class level, so you would have to be level 2 to take the feat.

[daggaz]

...and Im a barbarian, trying to gain access to the maneuvers by taking the Martial Study feat, which my google-foo repeatedly says allows non initiator classes to gain a limited number of maneuvers/stances (you can only take the feat three times, as well you need the prereqs if any).

EDIT: heh, thar be ninjas about! Ok hmm, thanks guys, seems like its maybe something I will retrain for at 2nd lvl then. Umm.. If I am second level, (and barbarian), that means it only works once every five minutes?? How exactly do you regain it for a non-initiator class? "resting?" as in, I dont actively partake in an encounter in any way??? hrm... bummer.

[Hat-Trick]

If you get it from the martial study feat, you can't recharge it. You have to get it from a level in an initiator class to recharge.

[The Glyphstone]

Whoops.

yeah, if you've got it via Martial Study, then you have to spend 5 minutes out of combat resting to get it back, at which point it's recharged and you can use it again. Doesn't take anything more than that, but it has to be 5 minutes of undisturbed rest.

[Yuki Akuma]

Only the Crusader, Swordsage and Warblade can regain maneuvers during combat. Everyone else has to rest/exercise/meditate/whatever for five minutes to prepare their maneuvers.

But on the plus side, they can have as many maneuvers readied as they have Martial Study feats.

If you take levels in an initiator class later, you still can't recharge your Martial Study maneuvers. But, if you take Martial Study with at least one level in an initiator class, it gets added to your maneuvers known from the class, and can be readied and recharged as normal.

Confusing?

[daggaz]

*whimpers* Well.. a level of warblade at 3rd is sounding mighty mighty fine, wonder if I will ever live that long. I knew there had to be some kinda drawback tho... just overpowers all my other options otherwise.

[Yuki Akuma]

Take a level of warblade at 2nd. Unless you really want uncanny dodge.

[AslanCross]

Take a level of warblade at 2nd. Unless you really want uncanny dodge.

Which Warblade gets too at Lv 2.

[daggaz]

No, Im a wolf totem barbarian so I gave up uncanny dodge for free improved trip. But thanks =)

[Fishy]

While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function.

Emphasis added. Moment of Perfect Mind is still awesome and probably a good idea, but something to be aware of.

[sofawall]

...and Im a barbarian, trying to gain access to the maneuvers by taking the Martial Study feat, which my google-foo repeatedly says allows non initiator classes to gain a limited number of maneuvers/stances (you can only take the feat three times, as well you need the prereqs if any).

EDIT: heh, thar be ninjas about! Ok hmm, thanks guys, seems like its maybe something I will retrain for at 2nd lvl then. Umm.. If I am second level, (and barbarian), that means it only works once every five minutes?? How exactly do you regain it for a non-initiator class? "resting?" as in, I dont actively partake in an encounter in any way??? hrm... bummer.

Nobody noticed this?

If you retrain a feat, it has to be something you qualified for when you took the feat, not when you retrain it. Otherwise, Warblades don't have to choose between Weapon Supremacy and Dual Stances. They can take both.

[Frosty]

When you take Martial Study doesn't it give you a class skill forever? In the case of Diamond Mind wouldn't it make Concentration a class ksill?

[jiriku]

Both correct. When you take martial study, you gain Concentration as a class skill forever for all your classes.

However, you must meet the prerequisites for the maneuver you take, so you can't take martial study at all until you have an initiator level of 1. You can't use retraining to avoid this, so you're probably not looking at picking up this feat until third level.

Further, you can't use concentration while raging, and there's no getting around that.

You may wish to consider taking a level of warblade at level 2, which will give you three maneuvers and a stance, then returning to barbarian for your third level. This gets you MoC at level 2, plus a recharge method so you can refresh it as a swift action. Further, you could pick up the Bolstering Voice stance, which will improve the Will saves of your allies. That means that an AoE Will save effect is likely to drop fewer of you, so you'll have more allies to run interference for you and protect you if the effect does knock you out of action. Plus, everybody likes a player who buffs his friends.

If you do this, ask your DM if you can use the fraction accounting system for calculating saves and base attack when multiclassing (from Unearthed Arcana). This will prevent the level of of warblade from interrupting the barbarian Will save progression.

[daggaz]

Ooch.. yeah totally missed the part about concentration. Damn.. =(
Really dont know how i forgot about that, must have been all the excitement going to my head.

As for the retraining, i dont know all the rules, but at any rate i coulda retrained the iron will into something entirely different (power attack for example) and then taken martial study as a replacement on its own for my third level.. but i guess not now =( daaang.

One last question, retraining, is it only one feat per level?