Is Natural spell worth it... for Wildshape rangers?

[deuxhero]

Is natural spell worthwhile for a ranger? I know druid is worth it, but for a half-caster it is another question.

I'd like both an answer for if spell access is limited to core and if you can have non-core spells.

[Gnaeus]

Core maybe. You get freedom of movement, which is situationally important, and resist energy, which comes up sometimes. A couple of other decent spells.

Non Core yes. Find the Gap is good. Swift Haste. Lightfoot. Lions Charge. You have a lot of combat spells which you might want to cast while wildshaped.

All this is assuming that your build is close to Ranger 20. Taking a deviation for Master of Many Forms or any other class that doesn't advance your casting really lowers the usefulness.

[deuxhero]

Where was MoMF from anyways?

Also, Wildshape Ranger vs. Wildshape Barb trading his non-stacking fast movment for pounce, what of the two is better?

[mikej]

Where was MoMF from anyways?

Complete Adventurer.

[Keld Denar]

As has been said. If you are doing Ranger20, AND you have access to spells in the Spell Compendium, its worth it. Lots of good stuff in there, even though you have very limited spellcasting (buy Pearls of Powah to recharge between combats for some spells like Rhino's Rush)

If you are MoMFing, then no, since you'll have like, 2 spells per day, like, ever. Totally not worth it.

As far as WS Barb and Pounce, that really depends on what forms you keep and again, whether or not you are MoMFing. Most of the animal forms that have multiple attacks come with Pounce pre-installed. Many other forms only have 1 attack (and never get iteratives). If you spend a lot of time in these, its not worth it. If you take advantage of MoMFing to be a giant and wield a weapon, then again, its totally worth it to get Pounce.

In other news...I totally didn't know that there was a WS Barbarian variant?

[Akal Saris]

Core (or at least core + unearthed arcana) Ranger 20: I'd say yes, but only after you've gotten the main combat feats that you want, so around level 12/15/18 most likely.

Core Ranger 10/PrC 10: I'd say no.

Non-core Ranger 20: Definitely! Lots of great picks that you'll want to cast.

Non-Core Ranger 5/PrC 10 or so (a classic build is Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 7/Warshaper 5/Nature's Warrior 3, I believe): Probably not - non-core has lots of other great feats to choose from. But it's still a decent choice, just not great.


"Also, Wildshape Ranger vs. Wildshape Barb trading his non-stacking fast movement for pounce, what of the two is better? "

There is no official wildshape barbarian option that I'm aware of - and even then, I'd rather go Ranger 19/Barbarian 1, and just take the pounce and 1/day rage (along with maybe taking the extra rage feat).

[woodenbandman]

No Wildshape Barbarian. There's Bear Warrior, and Primeval, and the Raging Druid.

[deuxhero]

Standard barb->swap rage for fighting style->Swap fighting style for wildshape then swap either of your +10 speed for pounce.

[Fax Celestis]

Standard barb->swap rage for fighting style->Swap fighting style for wildshape then swap either of your +10 speed for pounce.

Hooray for class feature equivalencies!

[Tokiko Mima]

Fun trick! I'll have to use it!

[FMArthur]

If you're going Mystic Ranger, it is definitely worth it and a really neat combination if you ask me.

Mystic Ranger is a really cool variant ranger from Dragon Magazine. You slow down your advancement of your Combat Syle (each is 1 level later) and Favored Enemy (starts at 2nd level, get another every 6 levels after) in exchange for better spellcasting (0 to 5th level spells, starts at 1st level, and an expanded spell list). I don't know if that extensive D&D indexing site is allowed to be linked here, so it might be a little hard to find.

[deuxhero]

How would mystic/wildshape ranger interact? -1 penelty on level for wildshape?

[Zeta Kai]

If you plan on spending a lot of time in your Wildshape form ,then Natural Spell is OP worth it, regardless of class.

[Akal Saris]

Standard barb->swap rage for fighting style->Swap fighting style for wildshape then swap either of your +10 speed for pounce.

Technically the class swap only gives the barbarian ranged fighting style, which is implicitly worth "less" than the option to choose a fighting style. So a DM would be justified to require the barbarian to sacrifice more for the swap.

(Like his useless trap sense modifiers! )

[mikej]

If you're going Mystic Ranger, it is definitely worth it and a really neat combination if you ask me.

Mystic Ranger is a really cool variant ranger from Dragon Magazine. You slow down your advancement of your Combat Syle (each is 1 level later) and Favored Enemy (starts at 2nd level, get another every 6 levels after) in exchange for better spellcasting (0 to 5th level spells, starts at 1st level, and an expanded spell list). I don't know if that extensive D&D indexing site is allowed to be linked here, so it might be a little hard to find.

Good call

I just discovered that Ranger variant a few weeks and fell in love with it. I'd rather take the delay in Combat Style & Favored Enemy for more spells. Especialy it the SpC is allowed. Crystal Keep has it in thier "base class" on page 91.

How would mystic/wildshape ranger interact? -1 penelty on level for wildshape?

I don't think they'd interact poorly. The only requirements is to gave up your Combat Style in exhange for Wildshape. It doesn't see in the description ( unless someone has the Dungeon Magazine issue ) that it would delayed all Ranger variants by 1 level.