Druid/monk

[TheThan]

Suppose I have a Shape change variant druid 10/monk 1. This druid wishes to multi-class into monk. He currently has two claw attacks and a bite attack. If this druid/monk shape changes and attacks, does he use the monk unarmed damage progression or does he use his normal damage. Also when he flurry of blows does he gain a fourth attack (all at a –2 penalty).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Suppose I have a Shape change variant druid 10/monk 1. This druid wishes to multi-class into monk. He currently has two claw attacks and a bite attack. If this druid/monk shape changes and attacks, does he use the monk unarmed damage progression or does he use his normal damage. Also when he flurry of blows does he gain a fourth attack (all at a –2 penalty).

Better, actually. Also, keep in mind that this is RAW and not RAI, and the natural attack rules are stupid.
Full-attack routine as something with +8 BAB, Flurry of Blows, and claw/claw/bite: US+6/US+6/US+1/Claw+1/Claw+1/Bite+1. Multiattack adds +3 to the natural attacks. Damage is as a Monk of your size and 1st level. Monk 1 actually makes a really good dip for a Druid.

[TheThan]

So the unarmed attack damage would increase from 1d6 to 1d8, but would the natural attack damage dice increase from 1d6 to 1d8 and from 1d8 to 2d6?

[Salt_Crow]

Monk's unarmed strike progression has no effect whatsoever on any natural weapons the creature may possess. Also, unless it states otherwise, I don't think you can use the natural weapons you gain with Shapeshift as secondary natural attacks along with your usual unarmed strikes.

But that's just my way of ruling and I have no qualms about how anyone else interpret the rules :)

[Asheram]

I thought you only gained a secondary attack with your "primary" natural weapon.

[riddles]

if you have more than one natural weapon you have one primary and the rest are secondary.

if you use manufactured weapons (or IUS), you get your regular iteratives and ALL natural weapons become secondary.

[Person_Man]

There are 0 examples of non-humanoid forms with unarmed strikes anywhere in D&D. I would never allow it. I personally doubt your DM would allow it. In addition to making one of the most powerful classes more powerful, it ruins any verisimilitude in the game by adding a Kung Fu Panda PC.

Having said that, a lot of intelligent Playgrounders that I respect have debated both sides of the issue without convincing each other, so I doubt we'll convince each other on this thread.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

There are 0 examples of non-humanoid forms with unarmed strikes anywhere in D&D.

Given the quality of WotC example characters, I'm not sure if that is really indicative of anything.

[Keewatin]

It really gets interesting when you shapeshift into things larger then medium that have pounce. Remember the flurry attack penalties will apply to your follow up natural attacks. But large numbers of attacks is sort of what monks do and they wont all be connecting most of the time anyway.

Also each attack is added separately for things like damage reduction and without pounce (also when you cant charge) those full attacks will be rare.

[TheThan]

There are 0 examples of non-humanoid forms with unarmed strikes anywhere in D&D. I would never allow it. I personally doubt your DM would allow it. In addition to making one of the most powerful classes more powerful, it ruins any verisimilitude in the game by adding a Kung Fu Panda PC.

Having said that, a lot of intelligent Playgrounders that I respect have debated both sides of the issue without convincing each other, so I doubt we'll convince each other on this thread.

Yeah, I agree this is an odd situation here.
He is using the shape change variant out of PHBII (in case you didn’t realize), which says nothing about a change in type, so I am assuming he retains his humanoid type. But that’s not the important thing. What’s important is we’re wondering how the monk’s flurry of blows ability interacts with natural attacks.

As strange as it sounds, the druid is not really that OP. He’s our only real tank so he doesn’t have to worry about stepping on anyone’s toes in that regards. We’ve hit level 10 and as such we’ve all caught up to the druid and he’s simply playing a character.

Ultimately it comes down to the DM and honestly he’s not going to know the answer. Since he’s a newbie and relies heavily on me for rules calls, so I’m trying to get a good idea of how the rules are going to work.

What I would do is count his natural attacks as unarmed strikes for the purposes of flurry of blows, then grant him an additional attack at the monk’s damage table, increased by his change in size. that’ll solve the problem, but its not my call.

[woodenbandman]

The RAW way of doing this is as Sstoopidtallkid indicated. You get all your unarmed strikes and all your natural attacks.