[4e] Monks and Two-Weapon feats

[Haven]

Hey, quick RAW question: If I'm a monk who doesn't use a weapon, can I grab two-weapon fighting feats?

The way I think it works is that, even if the Monk Unarmed Strike doesn't count, the text states that you can use the monk unarmed strike when you make a basic attack. As I read it, it doesn't replace the regular unarmed option, so you could effectively "wield" a monk unarmed strike in your off-hand and your regular one in your other hand (of course, both basically reside all over the body, but I think the fact that you're specifically not permitted to use monk unarmed without a hand free supports this idea.

Is that too tortured a reading? The more intuitive answer is "you have two fists (and a multitude of other natural attacks incorporated under the header of 'monk unarmed strike')" and, as I understand it, that's what the Unarmed/Monk Unarmed thing represents--but it seems a little ambiguous. Is there an official ruling or is the response just, as I'd expect it, "it's still all a playtest, wait for the PHB3"?

[Thajocoth]

If I were DM, I'd rule that both hands count as Monk Unarmed Hands and are weapons.

It is, however, up to your DM, as it's ambiguous.

[Kurald Galain]

Hey, quick RAW question: If I'm a monk who doesn't use a weapon, can I grab two-weapon fighting feats?

By RAW, no: you're only using one weapon, which is the monk unarmed strike.

On the other hand, from a balance point of view, there is no problem in allowing it.

[Alex Star]

Essentially this would only matter for purposes of Multi-classing into Ranger or Tempest Fighter... For powers that require 2 One-Handed Melee Weapons

[Mando Knight]

Essentially this would only matter for purposes of Multi-classing into Ranger or Tempest Fighter... For powers that require 2 One-Handed Melee Weapons

...And the purposes of using TWF and such feats when completely unarmed...


...I'd allow it, so long as both hands were empty.

[Haven]

By RAW, no: you're only using one weapon, which is the monk unarmed strike.

On the other hand, from a balance point of view, there is no problem in allowing it.

Well, the reading of "When you make an unarmed attack, you can use the monk unarmed strike, which is a weapon in the unarmed weapon group" I was thinking of is that the monk unarmed strike doesn't replaced, but rather is addition to, the default one, which can be considered the other weapon. But like I said, a somewhat tortured reading.

Anyway, another quick monk question: if I took Weapon Focus (unarmed) I don't add that bonus when I use a monk implement power, right?

[Asbestos]

Anyway, another quick monk question: if I took Weapon Focus (unarmed) I don't add that bonus when I use a monk implement power, right?

You want to take ... Focused Expertise (I believe thats it?). Yeah, Focused Expertise (Monk Unarmed Strike). It will give you the bonus when using your unarmed strike to attack physically and when using it as an implement.

[Gralamin]

Well, the reading of "When you make an unarmed attack, you can use the monk unarmed strike, which is a weapon in the unarmed weapon group" I was thinking of is that the monk unarmed strike doesn't replaced, but rather is addition to, the default one, which can be considered the other weapon. But like I said, a somewhat tortured reading.

Anyway, another quick monk question: if I took Weapon Focus (unarmed) I don't add that bonus when I use a monk implement power, right?

It actually would.

[Asbestos]

It actually would.

Oh right! I was thinking of Weapon Expertise. Yes, weapon focus will do what you want. Don't question that inconsistency.

[Magugag]

The monk is out?! What book is it in?

[Mando Knight]

PHB3. DDI subscribers can preview it before it's published.

[Magugag]

PHB3. DDI subscribers can preview it before it's published.

Awwwww.

Boo being poor, I can't afford to shell out that sort of money just for a little preview. D:

Thank you though!

[Haven]

It actually would.

Oh, it would? Nice.

So do my bonuses from enchanting my unarmed strike and from taking Weapon Focus (and/or TWF, if that applies) also apply to my Centered Flurry of Blows (since it's got the Implement keyword as well)?

[Thajocoth]

Oh, it would? Nice.

So do my bonuses from enchanting my unarmed strike and from taking Weapon Focus (and/or TWF, if that applies) also apply to my Centered Flurry of Blows (since it's got the Implement keyword as well)?

I'd say you only enchant one hand. You can enchant them independently. However, this is, again, ambiguous by RAW and up to the DM.

Also, DISenchanting your hand... Technically this would turn your hand into arcane dust by RAW. I'd rule you just get the dust, lose the enchant and keep the hand.

[Tiki Snakes]

I don't see why you don't just, I don't know. buy or find your monk a walking-stick? Wala, club or improvised one hand weapon.

And now you qualify for two weapon fighting without any mental acrobatics. And have a pimp monk cane.

[Thajocoth]

In the Character Builder it's legal to equip Monk Unarmed Strike in both your Main & Off-hand slots, and it lets you take the two-weapon feats, adding the bonuses from the feats to your math for you. I'd say that confirms it. They're pretty careful with the builder.

[Tiki Snakes]

In the Character Builder it's legal to equip Monk Unarmed Strike in both your Main & Off-hand slots, and it lets you take the two-weapon feats, adding the bonuses from the feats to your math for you. I'd say that confirms it. They're pretty careful with the builder.

Sounds more like a bug than a feature, really. But still, the two-weapon feat chain isn't going to break anything.