Modified races(3.5)

[stenver]

The campaign needed some racial changes, i wanted to ask if these are not too unbalanced, compared to a human, which is unchanged. These are the only racial choices players have. Wizard, druid, cleric is banned

City elf
+2 Dexterity.
Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elf base land speed is 30 feet..
Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari Common and Elven.
4 hours of meditation instead of 8 hours of sleep

Ork
4 Strength, –2 Intelligence, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari Common, Orc.
Low-Light Vision: An orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Goblin
-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Charisma, +2 intelligence, -2 constitution
Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
A goblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
+4 racial bonus on Move Silently and craft checks.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari Common, Goblin.

Half orc:
2 Strength,
Medium size.
A half-orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
Low-Light Vision: An orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari Common, Orc.

HALF-ELVES:

Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
+1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari Common and Elven.
4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
4 hours of meditation instead of 8 hours of sleep

[ericgrau]

City elf is missing an ability score penalty. Ork is missing light sensitivity. Goblin is fine, though pushing it like some other strong pre-existing races. Expect a lot of goblin wizards. Half orc is missing an ability score penalty, yet is still strictly worse than the ork given, since mental stat penalties barely affect the martial characters these two play. Half-elves got just the minor boost they need to bring them up to par. But compared to the other boosted races here they once again get the short end of the stick.

IMO it seems you're trying to boost races to make up for their shortfalls, but you're going too far. The orc never really needed it. The city elf and half orc probably need it, but try a little less. Maybe pile on a ton of other special abilities and minor bonuses besides stats, like the standard strong races. Like I said goblins and half-elves may be left they way you wrote them.

[FMArthur]

What? Half-elves are not worth playing at all here, so their status is unchanged. 2 Strength as the only racial feature of playing a half-orc is similarly undesirable. City elves look almost playable but like your half-orc, only have one truly noteworthy racial feature and it's a small stat adjustment. Goblins are better than grey elves or fire elves, trading an additional stat penalty for the beneficial Small size, but it's not really unbalanced compared to human.

Compared to everything else on the list, humans and goblins dominate, with Orks getting used for a specialized (stupid barbarian) role. Why are you restricting races to only these? Why did you nerf elves and especially half-elves so badly? They're weak races to begin with, and it looks like you're just kicking the half-elf while he's already down and dying. Half-orcs are a little different but no less weak than normal.

[stenver]

The goal is to get them nearly on par with humans, maybe slightly stronger or weaker. The game is also going to be fairly low level, i dont think i will cross the level 10 line too much.

@ericgrau
Like i said, wizards are banned, so no goblin wizards this time

Orc cannot have light sensitivity, if he has lived above earth his entire life, so if he is still too strong, i need something else to compensate, give suggestions, please. Maybe will or reflex penalties?

Maybe give extra feat @ first level for the half orc?

Would it help the city elves and half elves, if they got +2 charisma?

@FMArthut
I didnt nerf elves and half elves at all. I took away elves ability score penalty, and immunity to mind effects, because of the campaign setting. I gave half elves the human skill bonus, and thats a great boost. Considdering that skills are gonna play a major role in the game.


EDIT:
i made some modifications to races:
City elf:
+2 Dexterity. -2 strength +2 charisma
Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Elf base land speed is 30 feet..
Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
+1 to all saving throws
Automatic Languages: Valeenari and Elven.
4 hours of meditation instead of 8 hours of sleep

Orc:
+4 Strength, -2 dexterity, –2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari, Orc.
Low-Light Vision: An orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.

Half orc:
Half orc:
+2 Strength, -2 cha
Medium size.
A half-orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
Low-Light Vision: An orc can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari, Orc.
Bonus feat at first level

Half elf:
HALF-ELVES:
Cha +2
Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
+1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered an elf.
Automatic Languages: Valeenari and Elven.
4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
4 hours of meditation instead of 8 hours of sleep

[ericgrau]

Since goblins can't be wizards they will end up as rogues or other such tricky classes, are balanced and are now even away from the high end of "balanced". With 2 stat bonuses they are still enticing for certain builds though, even alongside humans and dwarves. The new city elves are on the low end of balanced, but the cha boost helps. The dex penalty easily balances out the new orc b/c it's a martial penalty, good. -2 cha really doesn't hurt a martial half-orc, but it's only a minor hurt to the dwarf too, plus half-orcs don't have a billion special abilities. Half-orc is now balanced, though strong like a dwarf.

If you're gonna ban other casters you better ban sorcs too, or half-elves and elves are way OP now. Without the 3 banned classes sorcs were already quite powerful anyway. Otherwise the cha boost is minor and those races are (still) balanced.

[stenver]

Thank you. I believe this is the way we are going to leave it and rather move on to discussion "what classes are allowed"

[Dixieboy]

How would living in the city improve their constitution?
(elves)

[FMArthur]

Thank you. I believe this is the way we are going to leave it and rather move on to discussion "what classes are allowed"

Ban anything that uses those classes' spell lists. Favored Soul and Archivist, specifically. I think Spirit Shaman should be okay - druid casting isn't so bad, but your mileage may vary. Certain classes that get very few spells of those lists, like a factotum, aren't bad. You'll need to fill the caster void if you want those archetypes represented in your game, and psionic classes are well-known for their balance so I'd recommend them. Just watch out for Linked Power shenanigans (or ban the stupid feat).

[stenver]

Well cities are really filthy places. And medieval cities were REALLY filthy places. Living in this hostile environment has improved their health.

Take it this way:
If you grow up your child in a place full of dust and filth, then by the time the child has become an adult, his immune system has become a lot better.
If you grow up your child like Michael Jackson, when he reaches adulthood, he is a very good target to all kinds of diseases out there.

Top that with a hard slave life the city elves have had, which has made them more resistant to beatings and such, and there you have it, constitution has improved. The turn off is that they have stayed away from their magical brothers in the forest that they dont have those immunities anymore