Does a dragon's tongue count as flat-footed?

[DragonKnight]

The question I never thought I'd have to ask my DM.

"Does the dragon's tongue count as flat-footed?"

In a solo game my DM is running me through, I'm playing a Ninja, using the fax homebrew I found on these forums, and currently fighting a black dragon.

Basically, the dragon used the Snatch and Swallow ability. I met the grapple DC, but barely, so DM ruled that I was stuck in its mouth, holding its jaws up with my hands. (Ty, 20 Str).

I make a strength check to get a hand free, roll a 20. I take a swing at the dragon's lower jaw and realize something, even though I didn't crit, (which is how I normally deal Sudden Strike damage, via Telling Blow), does a dragon's tongue that is being stepped on, count as flat footed.

My DM looks at me funny before finally nodding, that yes, yes it does count as being flat footed.

Apparently dealing 80ish damage to a dragon's tongue makes it want to spit out what is currently in its mouth.

Forgive the probably horrid grammar, it's getting on 1:15 in the morning here and I had to post this before I forgot, hehe.

[Xenogears]

By a strict reading of flat-footed (has yet to act) it would depend entirely upon whether or not the dragon had licked you as he attempted to swallow you...

[LibraryOgre]

Given the situation, yeah. You had it pinned, per the DM's ruling, so it was flat-footed.

[Rixx]

You need feet to be flat-footed! Nyuk nyuk nyuk!

[woodenbandman]

Swallowed creatures usually have a different statblock for the thing they're attacking, which does count as flat-footed. In this case, I say yes, yes it does.

[ericgrau]

The question I never thought I'd have to ask my DM.

"Does the dragon's tongue count as flat-footed?"

In a solo game my DM is running me through, I'm playing a Ninja, using the fax homebrew I found on these forums, and currently fighting a black dragon.

Basically, the dragon used the Snatch and Swallow ability. I met the grapple DC, but barely, so DM ruled that I was stuck in its mouth, holding its jaws up with my hands. (Ty, 20 Str).

I make a strength check to get a hand free, roll a 20. I take a swing at the dragon's lower jaw and realize something, even though I didn't crit, (which is how I normally deal Sudden Strike damage, via Telling Blow), does a dragon's tongue that is being stepped on, count as flat footed.

My DM looks at me funny before finally nodding, that yes, yes it does count as being flat footed.

Apparently dealing 80ish damage to a dragon's tongue makes it want to spit out what is currently in its mouth.

Forgive the probably horrid grammar, it's getting on 1:15 in the morning here and I had to post this before I forgot, hehe.

Strictly speaking by the rules, the dragon is not flat-footed, nor are his body parts. But I find it plenty reasonable to say that he can't use his dex bonus to AC against attacks since he can't move to dodge you. And if you can reach a vital and can see (both requirements btw), you can then sneak attack or sudden strike. A rogue or ninja wouldn't go for his tongue, but would try to stick a sword into his skull.

After being swallowed, otoh, you're screwed and must use normal damage, being unable to hit anything especially vital compared to a regular melee guy. You probably can't see either (but still auto-hit like anyone in a stomach IIRC).

One last thing. "He swallows me? Ahahaaha, I attack him from the inside and hurt him even more. I'm so clever!" has been done to death. If it were really so easy and common then no monster would be dumb enough to take swallow whole anymore. But if you're a rogue or ninja and you get a shot against his skull on the way in then, ok, good for you.

[Starscream]

I doubt the tongue had much in the way of a dex bonus to its AC. And you were standing on top of it. So yeah, I'd call it flat-footed.