Beginner Friendly Classes

[Zovc]

I will probably be playing Dungeons and Dragons with newer players this weekend. The last time I played D&D with them (see 2v2 PVP at Level 2), two were full, prepared casters--the other played a rogue.

Now, I'm not really afraid of tiers and powergaming, but I am somewhat afraid of overwhelming the guys with choices. When playing as a wizard, every time the party rests, the Wizard/Cleric/Druid has to spend time deciding what he wants to put in each slot. I don't think it'll be that significant of a problem, but sidestepping it shouldn't be that hard.

The first two classes that came to mind as recommendable classes (and reasonably tiered classes) were the Beguiler and the Duskblade. Both classes have usefulness outside of their casting, and are capable of filling a "expected niche" (Rogue and Fighter, respectively). Both characters also cast spells spontaneously, and I think magic (perhaps gishdom in particular) appeals to newer players.

Is there a recommended spontaneous divine caster? What classes would you recommend to a new player that has options, but not an overwhelming amount of them?

With the group, I'd probably play a Factotum or Beguiler.

[Eldariel]

Is there a recommended spontaneous divine caster? What classes would you recommend to a new player that has options, but not an overwhelming amount of them?

With the group, I'd probably play a Factotum or Beguiler.

Any ToB-class is solid, simply because you can't screw it up. Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Druid (again 'cause you can't screw it up), Warlock, etc. are also solid 'cause you can't really screw 'em up (though Druid requires preparing spells; he can just keep the same list at all times).

So yeah, I'd go with mostly spontaneous casters or martialists with a minimal amount of weak choices. Psionics is also a great option since due to RPG exposure, they're probably more familiar with the system than with Vancian casting.

[Kurald Galain]

The first two classes that came to mind as recommendable classes (and reasonably tiered classes) were the Beguiler and the Duskblade.

Duskblade, yes. I would recommend against Beguiler because of what its spells do.

There's always Warmage and Warlock, though. Rogues and Rangers are also not that hard to play. Also, there exists a spontaneous divine, it's called the Favored Soul.

[Zovc]

Okay, duskblade is green.

I'll also point the players to Psion and Favored Soul, I doubt they'll know how to do anything crazy with either class--especially without having looked over other splatbooks.

What about the Sorceror? Again, I'm not really afraid of what these players can do (and I'm not DMing), I just don't want them to spoil it for any of the other players (intentionally or not).

Are there any cool feats/spells I could suggest a Favored Soul take if he wants to feel like a Druid (instead of a Cleric, which the class really puts emphasis on)? any Prestige Classes? If the player wants to be a "healer," I'll suggest the Deity's Favor alternate class feature (replacing Weapon Focus) in the Player's Handbook 2.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Dont do the Psion. I still cant figure out how to play a psion. Not the best class for beginners.

[Faulty]

I highly suggest one of the ToB classes. Warblade is easiest. You can't go wrong with stance/maneuver choices, so a character can just pick what they think is cool and be totally functional. Melee is simpler to get a hang of than caster IMO. The fact that you don't need to do much prep, you just have most of your maneuvers readied, adds a lot of ease to using it.

[Fax Celestis]

Beginner players tend to like flash-bang-boom kinds of spells. You could throw them a warmage (despite it being a really crap class), or (more recommended) a warlock or dragonfire adept. The latter two especially are very simple ("choose an invocation, you now can cast it whenever you feel like") and very straightforward for new players.

[Starbuck_II]

Dont do the Psion. I still cant figure out how to play a psion. Not the best class for beginners.

Seriously? I thought it was straight forward.

I suggest not Incarnum: while awesome; takes alot of quadruple readings to make sense of it.

[Faulty]

Incarnum is a head ache.

[Nohwl]

cleric.

you get to repick your spells every day, you have access to all of them, so you can't pick the wrong spells like you can with a sorcerer. you have decent bab, and can wear heavy armor, so you can try melee combat if you want.

[Zovc]

Again, Duskblade seems solid.

Psion, Favored Soul, Sorceror, and Warlock are iffy.

I am considering the Warblade. I've glanced through ToB quite a few times, but I just don't feel like I "get" it. I'll look through it again sometime this week.

[Haven]

Is there anything specifically you feel like you're not getting?

[DragoonWraith]

I read through MoI once, skimmed Sinfire's Incarnum and Totemist handbooks, and read a few posts about Incarnum, and I understand the idea, I think. I couldn't build an Incarnum character because I'm not familiar with the soulmelds available (which is where the real complexity comes from, since there are a lot and they all do different things in different chakra). The actual mechanics of the system aren't that hard to grasp, I think. They're just like items that you can invest special power points in.

Still, because there are a lot of soulmelds and you really need to know what they all do in every slot and every bind, Incarnum is definitely a terrible choice for new players.


Also, while I think Psionics is the most intuitive system out there (primarily because it reflects popular video games), I've found that unless you are very familiar with the stats of the monsters you are fighting, figuring out how many power points to augment your powers with is difficult. It would be very easy to go nova in the first few encounters, and be without power points for the rest of the day - even when you're trying to be conservative but don't know what you're doing.


Wizard, and any other prepared spellcaster, is potentially bad because they need to plan their spells per day ahead of time. That's very difficult for new players. Plus, if any of them manages to do it "right" (optimized), no one else in your party will keep up (bad).

Sorcerer is bad for two reasons: one, it uses the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, which is notable for two things: generally high-power, and being massively long. New players are not going to want to read through the whole list, even just the Core list. The second problem with the Sorcerer is that you are stuck with your spells for the rest of your career. That's bad. Swapping out 1 spell for every 4 levels of Sorcerer is not enough to undo serious mistakes. New players are not going to want to be haunted by mistakes made on Day 3 three months into the campaign, and with a Sorcerer they could very well be. Alternatively, a well-built Sorcerer could very well over-shadow a lot of other classes.... Favored Soul has the same "you might accidentally gimp yourself long-term" issue, but not the power issue.


The Warlock and Dragonfire Adept are similar to the Sorcerer, but you avoid almost all of the problems - the list they choose from is shorter and less high-power, they can't run out of resources so they'll always have something to do, plus they can choose to replace Invocations every level they advance their invoking - even prestige classes. This is key, because the Sorcerer cannot do that, and it will hurt a new player a lot. Any invocations that they decide aren't that useful, they can swap out pretty easily.


The martial adepts are also similar - you have to choose manuevers, but the overall list is smaller and you can swap out maneuvers more readily than a Sorcerer, plus (and this is the key bit), you can't screw it up. They're all good. So those are heavily recommended. If someone wants to be a Warrior, suggest a Warblade - not a Fighter. Lots of new players choose Fighters because they're "simple", but the reality is that doing anything but sucking with a Fighter is very difficult. Even in a relatively unoptimized game, Fighters can very easily feel worthless if you've got one of the "easy" casters in there - which you should, because the easy casters are A. easy, and B. fun.


Then you have the specialized casters, which are pretty much perfect: fixed spell list, spontaneous casting - boom, just pick the spell appropriate for the current moment, sweet! If you use the Warmage, though, improve it somehow - find better blast spells, or allow higher-level blast spells to appear earlier on the Warmage's list than they do for Sorcerers/Wizards, give it at least 3/4 BAB and good Fort and Will saves (or maybe Ref and Will, to be different), and fix Warmage Edge to be worth something (bonus to overcoming SR instead of extra damage is one option), and that could be great for your party.


Another very cool option is the Binder. They're "prepared", but they have a pretty short list, so they won't have to agonize over their choices too much. Being prepared means they don't have to worry about long-term choices, either.


The Duskblade's one I'm not very familiar with, so I can't comment on that, I'm afraid.

[HCL]

I recommend against sorcerer unless you will pick his spell list AND cater to his strengths, or let him repick his spells every level. People try a spell, then realize it blows.

[Shpadoinkle]

I'd have to sugest either warlock or warblade. Personally, I started with a thief (2e, but I knew the books inside out before I ever actually played anyway), although I wanted to start with a fighter (again, 2e, before fighters became useless), but the party already had a fighter and a fighter/cleric.

Warlocks can use thier abilities all day long and there aren't any restrictions. "You get these abilities and you can use them whenever you want." Simple. No preparation, no memorizing spells, just pick what you want and you can throw it out whenever.

Warblade is slightly more involved and complicated, but still fairly simple (unless you're starting much above first level).

Bard isn't a bad choice either, but probably boring since it's primarily a support class.

Barbarian is another solid choice. If you're starting at level 3 or higher, or if the character in question is a human of strongheart halfling, you can take Extended Rage and Extra Rage, so the player doesn't have to worry about when the best time to rage is. Yeah, they're probably pretty bad feat choices, but it'll let the player get the hang of how the game works.

Also, rogue isn't bad. It's balanced and the abilities aren't terribly complicated, though he'll probably need advice on what skills will be useful.

ALSO also, cleric. Spontaneous healing means he can try memorizing whatever spells he wants, and if it turns out to not be useful that day, he can still burn it for healing.

[Zovc]

A lot of "not love" for the Sorceror, does this extend to the Favored Soul?

I doubt there would be issues with swapping spells every level (or even after the first string of encounters). Sure, a line should be drawn somewhere, but I don't mind cutting new players slack.

As far as the Psion is concerned, I'm not sure if anyone will be interested in it... but we should be starting at the first level, so the player should learn how not to go nova. If the players don't like the classes they're playing by the end of the night, we can always put together new characters for the next session (and I'll try to come back here with commentary).

I'll look the binder over later, probably when I look at the Warblade.

No, Haven, I don't feel like I'm missing "anything," but I'm looking for more ideas. I do not like, however, that none of the classes I've pulled up use wisdom--while I know this is a silly beef, it's present.

[Charlie Kemek]

definately warlock or dragonfire adept (basically a warlock with some different and less invocations, but gets to breath fire on things at will). warblade is a little too complex, they might forget that they have stance X active, etc. while they just say "I hit it." the classes above are also a little more versatile.

[Haven]

No, Haven, I don't feel like I'm missing "anything," but I'm looking for more ideas. I do not like, however, that none of the classes I've pulled up use wisdom--while I know this is a silly beef, it's present.

Well, Wisdom is pretty important to the Swordsage, actually.

[Faulty]

One thing to keep in mind when dealing with ToB is that you can refluff stuff. Also, despite having fancy names, a lot of maneuvers are just combat techniques without any supernatural shenanigans. You only get supernatural with Devoted Spirit, Shadow Hand and Desert Wind, none of which are availible to Warblades.

[Starbuck_II]

Well, Wisdom is pretty important to the Swordsage, actually.

No more tha a Monk. You could survive without Wisdom. You just wouldn't be as good.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I've had alot of success with dragon shamans and newer players.. no idea why not a ton of class features. they get a breath weapon which alot of new players find cool.

[holywhippet]

No mention of the spirit shaman? It's another spontaneous caster but they draw from the druid spell list.

A lot of "not love" for the Sorceror, does this extend to the Favored Soul?

It's kind of different with divine casters - they get healing spells (ignoring the bard which has no spontenous equivalent AFAIK). Being a spontaneous caster means they get more spells per level. Depending on your type of campaign it could be more useful to have someone one who can crank out a half dozen cure light wounds at low levels than it is to have someone who can cast fewer spells of any variety. Clerics can spontaneously change (well good and neutral clerics) their spells to cure X wounds spells, but they get less spells per day.

[Draz74]

Another vote for Warlock and Dragonfire Adept.

As far as ToB classes go, Swordsage seems slightly more straightforward to me than Warblade.

Simple ol' Rogue with Penetrating Strike is another good melee option.

[Cieyrin]

cleric.

you get to repick your spells every day, you have access to all of them, so you can't pick the wrong spells like you can with a sorcerer. you have decent bab, and can wear heavy armor, so you can try melee combat if you want.

That's the thing with prepared casters, is the overwhelming amount of choices for spells. The reason for starting players to do spontaneous casters is the limited spells known, thus they only have to deal with a few spells during normal play. Limited digging through books and whatnot during play so, they just have to worry about the spells they know. They can eventually replace spells, so a bad choice can be replaced. It's not important to make powerhouses at this point, as long as he has fun so that the next character is that much bettter, when he can do a cleric even better, when they know some good spells and can deal with that crazy variety and versatility.

[DragoonWraith]

A lot of "not love" for the Sorceror, does this extend to the Favored Soul?

Yes. Depending on desired power level, though, maybe more so or less so - the Favored Soul is considerably weaker. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on the party.

I doubt there would be issues with swapping spells every level (or even after the first string of encounters). Sure, a line should be drawn somewhere, but I don't mind cutting new players slack.

This will help Sorcerers a lot and make them quite viable for new players. Same for Favored Soul.

As far as the Psion is concerned, I'm not sure if anyone will be interested in it... but we should be starting at the first level, so the player should learn how not to go nova. If the players don't like the classes they're playing by the end of the night, we can always put together new characters for the next session (and I'll try to come back here with commentary).

My only experience with one was starting at 7th level, so I had a lot more opportunity to go Nova. 1st level Psions can't actually Nova since they can only spend 1 PP per power anyway. That does make things easier.

However... 3rd level is probably a better starting point, in general. 1st and 2nd level characters are a little squishy...


Also, I'm going to second suggestions of Barbarian and Rogue. Both are quite solid, both are quite simple. For the Rogue, don't toss too much SA-immune stuff at him (or use the Pathfinder Sneak Attack rules [but not the flanking or blur rules]). Let him full-attack with SA as often as is reasonable. For the Barbarian, strongly suggest Extend/Extra Rage so he doesn't have to worry about when to Rage as much, and make sure he gets Anklets of Translocation at the appropriate level. Also, give him the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian variant from Complete Champion - Pounce instead of Fast Movement.

[Nohwl]

That's the thing with prepared casters, is the overwhelming amount of choices for spells. The reason for starting players to do spontaneous casters is the limited spells known, thus they only have to deal with a few spells during normal play. Limited digging through books and whatnot during play so, they just have to worry about the spells they know. They can eventually replace spells, so a bad choice can be replaced. It's not important to make powerhouses at this point, as long as he has fun so that the next character is that much bettter, when he can do a cleric even better, when they know some good spells and can deal with that crazy variety and versatility.

i started as a cleric. it really isn't hard to learn. limit them to core and start at a low level if you think spells will be a big problem. you just keep the same basic list of spells prepared and check them off as you go. it also has the advantage of being hard to screw up.

a bad choice as a cleric can be replaced the next day. no waiting until you get more levels involved.

[Faulty]

Another vote for Warlock and Dragonfire Adept.

As far as ToB classes go, Swordsage seems slightly more straightforward to me than Warblade.

Warblade is hardier and has fewer maneuvers to choose and ready from fewer disciplines.

[taltamir]

That's the thing with prepared casters, is the overwhelming amount of choices for spells. The reason for starting players to do spontaneous casters is the limited spells known, thus they only have to deal with a few spells during normal play. Limited digging through books and whatnot during play so, they just have to worry about the spells they know. They can eventually replace spells, so a bad choice can be replaced. It's not important to make powerhouses at this point, as long as he has fun so that the next character is that much bettter, when he can do a cleric even better, when they know some good spells and can deal with that crazy variety and versatility.

eh, at lower levels he is only casting heal anyways.
Plus there are THAT many spells to choose from at level 1. Nor do you get overwhelming amount at each new level.

[Thrawn183]

Wizard. Fill every slot with magic missile or a metamagick'ed version of it. If the player is interested in branching out from there, that's entirely their choice.

Who ever said wizards have to be complex?

[taltamir]

Wizard. Fill every slot with magic missile or a metamagick'ed version of it. If the player is interested in branching out from there, that's entirely their choice.

Who ever said wizards have to be complex?

wizards? not only do they get a ton of choices, they are unable to do magic effectively at really low levels (level 1 wizard with magic missile is a joke... get grease!) they take a lot of effort to play well because every 2 levels gained means completely changing the way you utilize them. At some levels they are the best blasters, in some the best debuffers, at some the best terrain controllers, etc etc.