Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zagreb

    Default [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    A lot of spells seem to have a exotic (strange, wierd, hard to get) material component that doesn't have a specified cost. Examples include Evards Black Tentacles (with the component of a piece of tentacle of a giant squid or octopus) or Heroics (component: a piece of weapon or armor used by a 15th level fighter). How do you deal with those?

    a) Ignore them, by a interpretation of RAW you have them in your spell component pouches.

    b) Require them from your player/character.

    Are there benefits to b). And where should one draw the line?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    You technically have them in your spell component pouch. If your players are the sort who enjoy trying to get objects that they need, they can search for them-but if they don't find tracking material components fun, don't make them do it.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    If a player is intent on using them to add fluff, then I let them. But I consider them nothing but a huge bookkeeping annoyance.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Land of Angles

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    The specifics of material components are entirely fluff. The only important part is the GP cost.

    If they have no GP cost, you always have enough on you in your spell component pouch to cast however many copies of that spell you'll need to cast before the next time you need to refill your pouch (which happens behind the scenes and is completely free).

    One assumes a spellcaster picks up any useful object that could be used as a material component whenever he spots one, and otherwise just acquires materials during downtime.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2009-09-22 at 10:32 AM.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    I would only do add relevance to exotic components if the players wanted it to be incorporated, as otherwise it adds an unnecessary limitation to certain spells and an obvious complication of bookkeeping and item-searching.

    You could have it that characters generally use somehow what is the equivalent of 'mass-produced' items. Maybe that weapon fragment or armor fragment was obtained by summoning a level 15 person with fighter levels and having them use it for a moment?
    Such absurd statements, quite possible in D&D economics and especially if you assume most 'magic supply shops' are run by wizards or some sort of caster, work.

    If you do something like the above, you could add in that if they have a fragment from a weapon or armor often used, then it gets a +1 to DC or some such. This way there is a benefit from exotic components, but not a required benefit. Such could overpower some spells, though, especially ones already rather strong.

    If you want a very realistic campaign in which the magic-economics do not work like that--especially since if it works for shopkeepers the players could argue that they can use broken economic tricks for essentially infinite gold--the players always have 'Eschew Materials' as an option.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The Greyverse
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    {Scrubbed & link swapped. Please don't link there. If it's in the SRD link there instead.}

    Eschew Materials, and I'm done, by RAW, even.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Zeta Kai's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    The Final Chapter
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    The MC is also a good way to limit your casters from performing ridiculous cheese. If said cheese is dependent on a spell (it usually is), then you can be a real stickler about obtaining the component.

    PC: Okay, I cast foresight, which allows me to completely bypass the next encounter, & the one after that. Then, I...

    DM: You can't cast foresight. Try again.

    PC: What? Why not?

    DM: You don't have a hummingbird’s feather. It's required.

    PC: But I have a pouch, it's...

    DM: But your pouch doesn't have a hummingbird’s feather in it. If you want to cast foresight, then you should go find that feather. The party ranger would know where to find one. You remember him, don't you?

    PC: So, uh, Ralkyr. Uh, do you know where a, uh, a hummingbird’s feather is?

    Ralkyr: Oh, you remembered my name? How kind of you. Jeez, we haven't spoken in, like, 3 sessions. Where has the time gone? You know, I seem to recall that there are hummingbirds in the Forest of Buggeroff. It's nearby; i can show you the way.


    This is why casters in my games choose Eschew Materials now.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    If you want to be a stickler about spell components, ye olde 2nd Ed. Player's Option: Spells and Magic probably had the best system for searching, acquiring and growing components that I can recall. If you have access to a copy, I highly recommend it. =3
    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Spell components are a joke. I mean that literally: they are an attempt at humor, and not a particularly good one. When I DM, I ignore them unless there's a costly component. If a DM wants to enforce that kind of tedious bookkeeping on me as a player, I will find a new group.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    The MC is also a good way to limit your casters from performing ridiculous cheese. If said cheese is dependent on a spell (it usually is), then you can be a real stickler about obtaining the component.

    [COLOR="Gray"]PC: Okay, I cast foresight, which allows me to completely bypass the next encounter, & the one after that. Then, I...

    DM: You can't cast foresight. Try again.

    PC: What? Why not?

    DM: You don't have a hummingbird’s feather. It's required.

    PC: But I have a pouch, it's...

    DM: But your pouch doesn't have a hummingbird’s feather in it. If you want to cast foresight, then you should go find that feather. The party ranger would know where to find one. You remember him, don't you?
    At this point my first response would not be "let's go find a hummingbird feather." It would be "Do Not Spring House Rules On Players Like This. EVER." The rules are quite explicitly clear that if you have your spell component pouch then you have your hummingbird feather. You are free to change that by house rule if you like, but always tell the players you are doing so in advance and allow them to act on the change, possibly even changing their character builds. Simply announcing a rules change like this on the spot for no reason but to nerf a character and with no allowance for the player adjusting to compensate is a good way to convince me to leave your game and not come back.

    Changing the rules is fine. Changing the rules after your players have built their characters on the assumption that you were not changing the rules is fine if and only if you allow the players to retroactively change the decisions that were based on that assumption. Changing the rules and not allowing corresponding character changes is, in my view, a major sign of poor DMing.
    Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.

    Avatar by Ceika.

    Archives:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Saberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
    Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
    Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
    Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Manchester NH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    At this point my first response would not be "let's go find a hummingbird feather." It would be "Do Not Spring House Rules On Players Like This. EVER." The rules are quite explicitly clear that if you have your spell component pouch then you have your hummingbird feather. You are free to change that by house rule if you like, but always tell the players you are doing so in advance and allow them to act on the change, possibly even changing their character builds. Simply announcing a rules change like this on the spot for no reason but to nerf a character and with no allowance for the player adjusting to compensate is a good way to convince me to leave your game and not come back.

    Changing the rules is fine. Changing the rules after your players have built their characters on the assumption that you were not changing the rules is fine if and only if you allow the players to retroactively change the decisions that were based on that assumption. Changing the rules and not allowing corresponding character changes is, in my view, a major sign of poor DMing.
    I am a big fan of spell componites.. as a player as a gm there annoying.. I have to many other things to do.
    But as a player i like to micro manage. (one of the reasons I love wizards and have recently found a love for Spirit shamans(working on different lists of spells retrieved for different things))

    But I have to agree if they by a spell component pouch they should have any non GP cost stuff unless it was said before hand.

    Edit: though i do make my casters pay gp to refill there spell component pouch... every so many sessions or what not.
    Last edited by RagnaroksChosen; 2009-09-22 at 11:52 AM.
    When the end comes i shall remember you.

    I sorry i fail Englimish...(appologise for Spelling/Grammer Errors) Please don't correct my spelling or grammer eaither.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Zagreb

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Yes, using the rule to require exotic spell components would increase the value of Eschew Materials feat. I do not think that is such a bad idea.

    Most of the spells I noticed that have such a strange component are also pretty powerful (take Tentacles for example). Mayhaps this is a alternative way of "nerfing" such spells.

    Now I am not talking about making players use material components for all spells. Just for a certain few special ones, such as those above.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Please don't do this.

    The Wizard is already telling everyone when the party needs to stop saving the world and take a nap.

    Don't make him tell the party to stop saving the world and go butterfly hunting.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    dragonfan6490's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Arthurian America
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    This is the reason I always have eschew materials. Although, I usually play a Sorcerer rather than a Wizard, I feel its more flavorful.
    Originally Posted by gdiddy
    There can be no resurrection of 3.5. But the SRD is the phylactery of 3.5 and it's kind of eternal for that.

    Legacy of the Immortals Campaign Setting Any feedback, help or ideas you have are greatly appreciated.
    My Campaign Log (Apologize for Walls of Text)
    My House Rules
    My take on the Druid
    Prime20. Where Rule of Cool rules Alternatively, come to the new and improved Prime20 Thread!
    The wiki for Prime20

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    I played a beguiler once and couldn't afford a spell components pouch, so I looked up all the materials and focuses he would need, and wrote them all down. It was fun, but sort of a huge chore.

    Being aware of what spells needed what stuff though added a lot of flavor. Like my copper wire/garote was hidden in my hair, and I'd pull bits of cotton fluff out of my sleeves for sleep.

    Keeping vials of live spiders in my many pockets just added another creepy dimension to that creepy little gnome.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    You couldn't afford a single 5 gp item? Adventurer budgets are typically 100 or more even at level 1 and very quickly go into the thousands and tens of thousands of gold pieces. A spell component pouch should be pocket change.
    Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.

    Avatar by Ceika.

    Archives:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Saberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
    Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
    Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
    Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)

  17. - Top - End - #17

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    You couldn't afford a single 5 gp item? Adventurer budgets are typically 100 or more even at level 1 and very quickly go into the thousands and tens of thousands of gold pieces. A spell component pouch should be pocket change.
    Forget about pocket change. Even if you cant afford it, as a beguiler you can steal one.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by Myrmex View Post
    I played a beguiler once and couldn't afford a spell components pouch, so I looked up all the materials and focuses he would need, and wrote them all down. It was fun, but sort of a huge chore.

    Being aware of what spells needed what stuff though added a lot of flavor. Like my copper wire/garote was hidden in my hair, and I'd pull bits of cotton fluff out of my sleeves for sleep.

    Keeping vials of live spiders in my many pockets just added another creepy dimension to that creepy little gnome.
    That's pretty cool actually =)

    I don't even know what 1/2 the material components are in 3.5, but even after about 8 years I can still remember half of the components in 2E =P

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Cieyrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    That's pretty cool actually =)

    I don't even know what 1/2 the material components are in 3.5, but even after about 8 years I can still remember half of the components in 2E =P
    Not much has honestly changed for the spells that made the jump from 2nd to 3rd, really. The components that were required before pretty much have the same ones, I'm fairly sure.
    Goblin Cannon Crew avatar by Vrythas.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Gnome Gun Mage avatar by NEO|Phyte
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Damn you Cieyrin! Cieyrin!!!!!read as Khaaaaan!

    My badges! :D
    My Homebrew
    The Gunslinger's Handbook
    Archetype Combo List!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Default Re: [3.5]Exotic Material Components

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    You couldn't afford a single 5 gp item? Adventurer budgets are typically 100 or more even at level 1 and very quickly go into the thousands and tens of thousands of gold pieces. A spell component pouch should be pocket change.
    Hmm, I think I was counting it as 20 gp, and no, I couldn't afford one. It was pretty much the first thing I bought as soon as we got the chump change from our first encounter. I probably bought it just by pawning some stuff me & the party rogue (a dwarven "security specialist") ripped off from stuff the rogue was supposed to be guarding.

    I later used Glibness to con an Azer out of like 50,000 gp in gems. At level 8.
    It was just that at starting level (3rd or 4th, can't remember), I ended up spending almost all my gp on big budget items.

    That was a really fun campaign.
    Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-09-23 at 03:43 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •