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    Default There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [3.5 Base Class]

    My "Aesthete" idea did not hold a whole lot of water, but one aspect of that class just got to me. So I made a whole new class out of that one idea. Unfortunately, I'll only be able to post the crunch for now, as I'm to busy for the fluff.

    Now behold, the ARTISTE!


    The Artiste


    "No, no, no. Your lines are all wrong, your colors are too dull, and your shape is just... BLECH! And you think you're beautiful?! Hah!"
    -A rather tactless artiste to a nymph who cried shortly thereafter.

    (Reserved for Fluff)

    Hit Dice: d6

    THE ARTISTE
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Skecthbook, Art Imitates Life, Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 1d6)

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Life Imitates Art (Filling in the Blanks)

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 2d6)

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Honing the Captured Likeness

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 3d6)

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Life Imitates Art (Ink-Heart)

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 4d6)

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Life Imitates Art (Skilled Hand of the Guardian)

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 5d6)

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Artistic Freedom, The Lowest Form of Art (Shadow Conjuration)

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 6d6)

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Life Imitates Art (Erase)

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 7d6)

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |The World Is My Canvas! (1/day)

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 8d6)

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |The Lowest Form of Art (Greater Shadow Conjuration), The World Is My Canvas! (3/day)

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 9d6)

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |The World Is My Canvas! (5/day)

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Life Imitates Art (Mightier than the Sword 10d6)

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |The World Is My Canvas! (Permanent), The Lowest Form of Art (Shades)[/table]

    Skill Points per level: 6 + Int Modifier (x 4 at 1st level)
    Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Use Magical Device (Cha)

    Class Abilities:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Artistes have little use for anything other than their sketchbooks, as such, they are only proficient with simple weapons and light armor. They are not proficient with shields.

    Sketchbook: The cornerstone of the Artiste's repertoire is their sketchbook. Through some supernatural means (be it arcane, divine, or psionic in nature), the Artiste can twist the world to his whims by using this curious book as a focus. It is in many ways identical to a wizard's spellbook, except that it only contains 50 pages. In addition to being used for actual sketching, this book allows them to use a number of abilities, including Life Imitates Art and Art Imitates Life. Once a sketchbook is full, the Artiste can create a new one through the Rite of Artistic Resonance. If a sketchbook is lost for whatever reason, they cannot make use of any abilities related to that specific book, but this doesn't prevent them from using other sketchbooks in their possession.

    Art Imitates Life: Due to their mastery with various painting and drawing implements, Artistes can duplicate the form of just about anything they encounter. By making a Craft (Sketching) check (DC = creature's HD + 10), an Artiste can capture a creature's perfect likeness in their sketchbook. This is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Once the action is successful, the likeness can be used in conjunction with their Life Imitates Art ability. One might expect the size of a creature to have some sort of relevance when determining how much space it's likeness takes up, and they would be wrong. Size has to do with little other than perspective. A dragon may be large, but if it poses no threat to the Artiste, it can seem rather small in the grand scheme of things; by the same token, a halfling may be short in stature, but if they are sufficiently heroic, they're “larger” than that dragon will ever be. Essentially, this means that a creature's HD dictates the size of its likeness. If it's HD is less than the Artiste's class level, than it takes up half of a page. If the HD is equal to the Artiste's class level, then it takes up a whole page; if it's greater, then it takes up two pages. In most cases, the Artiste requires two hands to make the needed Craft checks (one for the writing implement, and one for the sketchbook). But if the Artiste is in an awkward position (prone for example), but can still reach the book, they only require one hand.

    Life Imitates Art: With little more than their than a pen and force of will, an Artiste can change the world around them to fit their... unique aesthetic tastes. This gives them access to a vast array of abilities that allow them to assail their opponents, aid their allies, and bring color to this staggeringly boring thing called “reality.”
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    Mightier than the Sword: By drawing a quick slash over his targets likeness, the Artiste adds a bit of truth to this old saying. On a successful ranged touch attack the Artiste causes 1d6 damage. This damage increases by 1d6 at level three, and again every even numbered level thereafter to a maximum of 10d6 at level 19. This ability can be used at will, and requires a standard action.

    Filling in the Blanks: Many Artistes do not like seeing those around them wounded; it makes them seem... unfinished, and there is no perfection to be found in broken things. At level 2, an Artiste who makes a successful Craft (Painting) check (DC = standard Heal DC) can heal any creature or object who's likeness they possess. This can function as a standard Heal check, but by altering the DC (Target's HD + 10) the Artiste can heal a number of hit points equal to twice their character level. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to the Artiste's Charisma modifier.

    Ink-Heart: Beginning at level 6, an Artiste can create servant out of pure ink. For the most part, this ability functions as the Astral Construct power with a manifester level equal to the Artiste's class level. This ability is treated as having a manifester level = min(class level/2), max 9th. The Artiste may summon several, but again as the power, a lower CR of monsters must be summoned. If this ability is used to replicate an AC power of at least 2 power levels below the Artiste's max(Example, a 15th level Artiste choosing to summon 1 large CR 8 Astral Construct), he may use the ability at-will, but any summons must be dismissed before this is used again this way. For more powerful summons, the ability drains his artistic vision, limiting him to only Cha mod uses per day. In addition, the Artiste can summon creature who's likeness they possess into being for a number of rounds equal to half their class level. This creature must have a CR less than or equal to the Artistes class level. This is very taxing, and requires a concentration check (DC = TBA) each round to control. During this time, the Artiste can do little else other than move and defend themselves. This form of Ink-Heart can only be used once per day. These creatures are clearly facsimiles, as they are made out of nothing but ink and have no color, so there is no chance of disguising them as their more natural counterparts; to represent this, all summons possess the Ink template.
    Note: It is recommended that the DM prohibit the summoning of other PCs in this way. Though some sort of transportation ability would be a viable alternative.

    Skilled Hand of the Guardian: At level 9, the Artiste can give his allies a great deal of protection by drawing a simple circle around their likeness. By succeeding on a Craft (Sketching) check (DC = target's HD + 15) they can provide their ally with universal damage reduction equal to the Artiste's class level that lasts for a number of rounds equal to their Charisma modifier.

    Erase: Only particularly vengeful Artiste's have been known to make use of this destructive ability. Once per day, at level 12, the Artiste can attempt to erase their target from their sketchbook... and existence. This is functionally identical to the Disintegrate spell with a caster level equal to the Artiste's class level.

    Note: All Life Imitates Art abilities are limited to a range of 60ft.

    Honing the Captured Likeness: At some point, the Artiste grows bored with simple sketching, and must move on to higher forms of art. This allows them to improve the various likenesses they have captured. Beginning at level 4, the Artiste can vastly improve upon their meager sketching by making a Craft (Painting) check (DC = target's HD + 20) using one of the likenesses in their sketchbook(s). If the check succeeds, then the creature benefits from the Augment Summoning feat when summoned, but only once that day. If this ability is used on an allies (PCs) likeness, that ally gains the same benefit for a number of minutes equal to the Artiste's Charisma modifier. These bonuses increase by 4 at levels 8, 12, and 16 to a maximum of +16. The intricacies of this process prevent it from being used in combat.

    Artistic Freedom: Even the most down to earth Artiste can become rather uninterested with reality after a while; they often say it lacks a certain... something. Beginning at level 10, the Artiste can add various templates to creatures who's likeness they possess. This requires a successful Craft (Painting) check (DC = target's HD + 30). From then on, the Artiste can summon that version of the creature. The template cannot be applied if it increases the creature's CR beyond the Artiste's class level + their Charisma modifier. Any template applied to an ally (PC) lasts for a number of minutes equal to the Artiste's Charisma modifier. Certain templates can be applied regardless of their requirements, such as Axiomatic, Anarchic, Pseudonatural, Fiendish, and Celestial. These have to do more with the quality of the Artiste's work than the actual planes. A perfectly painted portrait would yield an Axiomatic creature, whereas a poorly painted or unfinished one would result in an Anarchic version and so on. This ability can be made permanent if used on an ally, but this requires knowledge of the Ritual of Platonic Apotheosis, and prevents them from receiving any more benefits from Artistic License, or Honing the Captured Likeness, as they are effectively “complete” in the Artiste's eyes. Once the ritual is used, Artistic License cannot be used again until the following day; otherwise it can be used a number of times per day equal to the Artiste's Charisma modifier. This ability cannot be used during combat due to the time required to complete the masterpiece.

    The Lowest Form of Art: Critics often say that mimicry is the highest form of flattery, but the lowest form of art; so any artiste that attempts to emulate another is frowned upon. Nevertheless, there are those try to copy the arcane mastery of wizards. Beginning at level 10, an artiste can use Shadow Conjuration as a spell-like ability three times per day. This ability improves at level 16, allowing them to treat this ability like Greater Shadow Conjuration. Any imitated spells that are 4th to 6th level can be cast 3 times per day, and any imitated spells that are 3rd level or below can be cast 5 times per day. It improves once more at level 20, allowing them to treat this ability as though it were Shades. Any spell that is below 3rd level can be cast at will by this point, spells from 4th to 6th level can be cast 5 times per day, and 7th and 8th level spells can be cast 3 times per day. These abilities have caster levels equal to the artiste's class level, and saves based off their charisma.

    The World is My Canvas!: The Artiste has reached the point where they no longer need that “children's scribble-book” as a crutch for their powers... for a time at least. At level 14, the Artiste can askew their sketchbook entirely and apply the desired changes directly to reality; this means that they do not need a creature's likeness to affect them with their various abilities, though they are still subject to the limitations of those abilities. For example, rather than capturing the demon's likeness in her sketchbook and then summoning it, the Artiste could simply make the necessary Craft (Sketching) check, and summon a facsimile of the demon right beside her. This ability lasts a number of rounds equal to the Artiste's class level. This ability can be used once per day at level 14, three times per day at level 16, and five times per day at level 18. It becomes permanent at level 20.
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2009-10-20 at 02:02 PM.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    {Reserved for Class Specific Feats}
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    {Reserved for Rituals}
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I really dig this class... but you're missing weapons/armor proficiencies.

    Also, why does the Artiste have UMD as a class skill?

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I was wondering about Use Magic Device myself.

    However, this class is pretty sweetastic, even though it reminds me of that boss from Kirby.
    Last edited by Kuma Kode; 2009-09-22 at 12:46 PM.

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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Fixed the proficiencies. Thanks for spotting that.

    To be honest, I don't know why I put Use Magic Device on their skill list. It just seemed like something all skill-reliant non-casters should have.

    And I'm thinking about raising their skill points per level to 8, since they rely on those skill for ALL of their abilities. How does that sound?
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2009-09-22 at 01:51 PM.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I love the flavor, a few detail though:
    Mightier than the Sword: By drawing a quick slash over his targets likeness, the Artiste adds a bit of truth to this old saying. On a successful Craft (Sketching) check (DC = target's AC) the Artiste causes 1d6 damage. This damage increases by 1d6 at level two, and again every even numbered level thereafter to a maximum of 11d6 at level 20. This ability can be used at will.
    I suppose it's a standard action but saying so would be nice, I know some optimiser that would assume it's a free action.
    Ink-Heart: Beginning at level 6, an Artiste can call any creature who's likeness they possess into being. For the most part, this ability functions as the Summon Monster spell with a caster level equal to the Artiste's class level. These creatures are clearly facsimiles, as they are made out of nothing but ink and have no color, so there is no chance of disguising them as their more natural counterparts. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the Artiste's Charisma modifier.
    Note: It is recommended that the DM prohibit the summoning of other PCs in this way. Though some sort of transportation ability would be a viable alternative.
    Here I need clarification first the artiste use art imitate art to sketch a creature in their sketchbook. After that they can summon the creature, I assume that the reference to the summon monsters spell is only their to calculate duration ? That seem powerfull particulary if they only need to observe the creature to sketch it, even with the limit of class level + charisma with 20 cha the artist only need a 22 to sketch a CR 12 creature at level 6 (when they get Ink-Heart.)

    Adding an ability to summon an ally might be nice.

    Regarding the sketchbook, i suppose that you need two hand to make a sketch seem evident but adding precision never hurt.

    I'm sorry to niptick but I really like the idea and I want to help.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Mightier than the sword seems overpowered. Doing (level/2 + 1)d6 damage at-will, with what seems to be infinite range seems over the top. Did I miss the range on it? If you need to be within a certain range(like, 60ft), it isn't too bad then, being comparable to a warlock's eldritch blast.

    Actually, the skill versus AC part is wonky too, since skills and AC scale differently. I mean, the 'normal' L1 AC is between 10-20, while the 'normal' L1 attack bonus is 0-10. Now, the 'normal' craft(sketching) bonus one of these guys is walking around with at L1? 13, off the top of my head, and that's without magic items or any serious optimization(read: I'm assuming a +4 from int instead of +5).

    As far as skills per level, 8 is incredibly excessive. This is a backline int-based character, using a whole 2 skills for class abilities. Wizards get 2+int, so you'll have to argue really hard to get more than that. Rogues get 8+int because they're MAD enough that a int-based rogue is sacrificing a lot to get a high int, while a the wizard sacrifices almost nothing to get it, and neither does this class. 6(what you have now) still seems excessive, and 4 may be doable, but 8 is over the top, I think. (I'd have to read deeper into the class to be sure one way or the other)
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Capstone was cool untill "Once per day", not only does it go against the flavor right above it, but the wording gets wonky after that (how would using it with pen is mightyer work?)

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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    @zagan: Hmph. You and your nitpickery. And how would you suggest I fix Ink Heart if it's too powerful?

    @Godskook: I suppose you have a point about the skill points, considering all the things they can do with just two skills. And I'll be sure to add range to Mightier than the Sword. And where did you get those figures from? From what I can tell, the Craft (Sketching) check at level one woud be... like... 7 for someone with an average Intelligence. I must be missing something.

    @deuxhero: So... your saying that The World is My Canvas! should be permenant? Huh. I thought that'd be too much at first. And with Mightier than the Sword, an Artiste encountering something for the first time would only need to make a Craft check to attack them, not to add them to their sketchbook.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    And where did you get those figures from? From what I can tell, the Craft (Sketching) check at level one woud be... like... 7 for someone with an average Intelligence. I must be missing something.
    AC and attack bonus were eye-balled. I'm not 100% on them. The craft check was 18 int(either 18 starting or 18 after racial, neither unreasonable for an int-based class), skill focus(craft(sketching)), masterwork craft tools, and max ranks. 4+3+2+4 = 13. That's just core, at L1. Costs 55gp, 1-2 feats(not sure if you need the painting one at L1 or not), and 8 skill points. It is pretty much always a bad idea to mix opposed checks like that, unless the point isn't to make it more difficult but to drain resources(ToB maneuvers are like that sometimes. One requires a jump check followed by an attack roll, but the jump check isn't really there to be failed, its there to ensure your character is jump trained enough to be worthy of using the maneuver(and thus, it drains 1 skill point per level from the PC).
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Oh. I didn't take feats and items into account... What would you suggest then?
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Oh. I didn't take feats and items into account... What would you suggest then?
    As a general rule, checks are:

    skill vs skill
    spell/ability DC vs save
    attack roll vs AC

    skill vs skill is a bad idea, since you either pick a really common skill, and get screwed, or an uncommon one and just win. It is also harder to balance, since some monsters don't scale 1-1 for HD vs. CR, meaning that some monsters will have a lot more skill points than the PC would, while 'PC-like' mooks will have too few(since to be a mook, you'd likely have fewer class levels than the PCs).

    DC vs save could work, but you'd need to assign a scale to it. The formula the warlock uses for determining the spell level of its eldritch blast could be used for this, and simply say 10 + 'effective spell level' + mod.

    ranged attack roll vs touch AC works, but bad BAB is an issue there(warlocks get medium BAB for theirs). If 90% of your attacking is supposed to be with that ability, I'd go this route. Maybe allow a full-round action for improved damage(by making a craft check?).
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I guess a ranged touch attack could work; but that would make them dependant on Dexterity, and I was trying to avoid that whole MAD thing...
    Last edited by Primal Fury; 2009-09-22 at 06:09 PM.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    I guess a ranged touch attack could work; but that would make them dependant on Dexterity, and I was trying to avoid that whole MAD thing...
    I've not really had the time to really figure out their ability dependence, so what is it? Int for abilities and skills, Con for the obvious, but is there anything else? If not, they're not MAD, they're SAD.

    Ah, noticed the Cha for Art imitates Life, but why is that Cha? There's no reason for that to be Cha, is there? Also, basing class mechanics of CR is probably a bad idea because CR isn't exactly a balanced mechanic in the first place.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    This seams great, even though i havn't really payed a game yet (still researching it, getting ideas, deciding which books to get and finding potential players).

    It seams a little hard to multiclass with this, though. maybe some multiclass-freindly feats would solve that, though. also, Artistic lisence+Ink heart, is obviosly the intended purpose of artistic lisence, but IF some one uses it on, i don't know, the party rouge's riding dog, giving it skeletal+half dragon, or even worse uses it on the party rouge itself...

    also, the range shoudn't just be on the Mightyer than the Sword, but also for the healling, and skilled hand of the gaurdian. and probably erease, too.

    meh, level 10 is probable just what it is anyways, half-epic, i shouldn't even be whining. i haven't even played a game for myself yet! :D
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    I've not really had the time to really figure out their ability dependence, so what is it? Int for abilities and skills, Con for the obvious, but is there anything else? If not, they're not MAD, they're SAD.

    Ah, noticed the Cha for Art imitates Life, but why is that Cha? There's no reason for that to be Cha, is there? Also, basing class mechanics of CR is probably a bad idea because CR isn't exactly a balanced mechanic in the first place.
    Int, Con, Dex. Hm. Your right, that is fine. And I always thought that painters and such were charismatic individuals, sort of like the visual counter part to the bard/singer. And perhaps HD rather than CR?
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I really like this class, I need to use it sometime.

    I though Charisma was being used because you need to be charismatic to impart your artistic will on reality.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark Fiddler View Post
    I really like this class, I need to use it sometime.

    I though Charisma was being used because you need to be charismatic to impart your artistic will on reality.
    Thank you. And YES! THAT was my reasoning behind charisma. And I finally decided on a picture and a quote; though to be honest I almost used this picture right here.

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    And I think I'll make a few changes to The World is My Canvas! Namely, make it permenant, have it change all sketching checks to painting checks, and allow them to commit likenesses to memory for later summoning. Maybe.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Neat class.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    You could make Mightier than the Sword DC vs. Will Save...

    DC = 10 + 1/2 Artiste's class level + Artiste's Charisma modifier

    Essentially it would be the artiste imposing his vision on reality and the target resisting such an imposition.

    EDIT: Also, yeah, most things go by Hit Die, so use that instead of Challenge Rating.
    Last edited by Kuma Kode; 2009-09-22 at 10:03 PM.

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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I really like the idea of this class. I can just see an Artiste standing on a hill overlooking a battlefield, determining the course of battle with a few pencil marks or brush strokes.

    That said, I think that as a player I might have an issue with dead levels. In particular, the Artiste gains nothing except hit points and skill points at levels 7, 11, 13, 17, and 19. I think I would probably push back all increases to Mightier than the Sword damage by one level, so that you get +1d6 damage at every odd level to a maximum of 10d6 (and then move Fill in the blanks to level 2). I just know that if I were playing this I would be tempted to multiclass after level 6 for more BAB, saves, or class abilities.

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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I like this. I like it a lot.

    I have few suggestions, except perhaps making some more powerful or permanent magic go into more 'solid' art. Sculpting for artistic liscense, perhaps, and make it more defined abilities than templates. Templates break easy. Maybe a list of possible 'revisions'? Wings, stronger, faster, etc. Treat it like making a magic item, but lasts as long as the statue is safe, and they get some major damage and lose the benefit if the statue is destroyed.

    Or, perhaps just making animated statues instead of summoning ink-monsters?
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    @zagan: Hmph. You and your nitpickery. And how would you suggest I fix Ink Heart if it's too powerful?
    The easiest way would be to limit the CR of creature that can be summon perhaps:
    "When using Ink heart an Artist can only summon creature with a CR no greater than their Character level."

    Artistic License:.....
    Love the flavor of this one fit perfectly but as Flabort said limiting the choice of template aviable would be wise. Axiomatic, Anarchic, Pseudonatural, Fiendish, and Celestial work well for that. Perhaps adding Element or half-elemental creature (Manual of the planes p188) Draconic could fit too (Draconomicon p150) but perhaps not half-dragon. Perhaps also Zombie and Effigy. That give a wide variety of choice but nothing too powerfull.

    As for MAD well you need Int for the craft(sketching and painting), Cha for determining the max CR of creature you can affect. Con for Hp as normal they can dump wis because they have a good will save but it could help for spot (on that note requiring a spot check to be able to use Art Imitates Life could fit the flavor but it's perhaps a little too much)

    It had been point out that Mightier than the Sword could be too powerfull perhaps with a cool down like a breath weapon ? 1d4+1 round to begin with and gradually lessen as you level up: 1d4 at 5th, 1d3 at 10th and 1d2 at 15th ?
    Just tossing in my two copper.

    In any case I'm impatient what you are planning for feat and ritual.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    @kuma kode: Making it a will save doesn't sound right though. The Artiste isn't imposing their will on the creature, they're imposing their will on reality itself and that doesn't sound like it warrents a will save. But I do plan on expanding on Mightier than the Sword. Rather than just striking them with ink, the Artiste would gain the ability to create various phenomena (sp?) that would either cause more damage, cause specific types of damage (fire, cold, acid etc.) or inflict various unfavorable conditions on their enemies. That having been said, I'll make the first aspect of Mightier than the Sword a ranged touch attack, but most of the other abilities will that involve it will be based on saves. And thanks Godskook. Got that idea from you.

    @Bakkan: What I'm doing with Mightier than the Sword might help with the various dead levels, ie attack aspect advances at odd levels, and status/specific aspects advance at even levels.

    @Admiral Squish: Your right, why should visual art be confined to just painting? Scuplting is just as pertty. But then that creates the problem of them lugging around all of these little clay statues. That's gonna take a little thinkin to work right. I do like it though.

    @zagan: Alright then, I'll make the abilities based off of HD, and limit the summonable things to their class level. I'd like to avoid putting "cooldown" mechanic on Mightier than the Sword, this way, it works like the warlocks blast, and that doesnt have a cooldown. But I love the idea of the other aspects of Mightier than the Sword having cooldowns.

    This is goin great guys! Keep them comments a comin'!
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    I've been re-reading Mightier than the Sword, and I've realized its gimped*. The CR+Cha limitation you require to even have access to it is, for that single ability, ridiculous. I mean:

    PC: I use 'AIL' on the BBEG, in preparation for a MttSword next round!
    DM: You can't.
    PC: Why the hell not? He's the BBEG, I need to kill him.
    DM: You can't use 'AIL' on someone of his CR.
    PC: ......

    MttSword should probably be pulled out of that ability, or whatever replaces the CR limitation should be moved into the individual abilities that actually need limiting, like Ink Heart. In fact, try this for some rules text for Ink Heart:

    Ink-Heart: Beginning at level 6, an Artiste can summon creatures who's likenesses they possess into being. For the most part, this ability functions as the Summon Monster spell with a caster level equal to the Artiste's class level. This ability is treated as having a spell level = min(class level/2), max 9th. Creatures, except at GM approval, must be selected from the appropriate Summon Monster list. The Artiste may summon several, but again as the spell, a lower CR of monsters must be summoned. If this ability is used to replicate a SM spell of at least 2 spell levels below the Artiste's max(Example, a 15th level Artiste choosing to summon 1 large Air Elemental), he may use the ability at-will, but any summons must be dismissed before this is used again this way. For more powerful summons, the ability drains his artistic vision, limiting him to only Cha mod uses per day. The monster summoned may be from These creatures are clearly facsimiles, as they are made out of nothing but ink and have no color, so there is no chance of disguising them as their more natural counterparts.

    (Balance-wise, this is roughly equivalent to a summons focused caster using the elemental reserve feat, except with less restrictions on what creature is summoned. Might still be an issue, but definitely better than it was.)

    -----

    *This is not to negate my earlier comments. Just like keeping the .50 caliber bought for self-defense(from burglars robbing your house) in one safe, and the ammo in another, that's how you should read my comments on this ability. (Said homeowner should buy a sidearm and sleep with it instead, but I'll digress into politics if I keep going...)
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    I've been re-reading Mightier than the Sword, and I've realized its gimped*. The CR+Cha limitation you require to even have access to it is, for that single ability, ridiculous. I mean:

    PC: I use 'AIL' on the BBEG, in preparation for a MttSword next round!
    DM: You can't.
    PC: Why the hell not? He's the BBEG, I need to kill him.
    DM: You can't use 'AIL' on someone of his CR.
    PC: .......
    Oh Crap. Would it be better if there was no actual limit to AIL? An Artiste could capture whatever image they please, but could only do so much with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godskook View Post
    Ink-Heart: Beginning at level 6, an Artiste can summon creatures who's likenesses they possess into being. For the most part, this ability functions as the Summon Monster spell with a caster level equal to the Artiste's class level. This ability is treated as having a spell level = min(class level/2), max 9th. Creatures, except at GM approval, must be selected from the appropriate Summon Monster list. The Artiste may summon several, but again as the spell, a lower CR of monsters must be summoned. If this ability is used to replicate a SM spell of at least 2 spell levels below the Artiste's max(Example, a 15th level Artiste choosing to summon 1 large Air Elemental), he may use the ability at-will, but any summons must be dismissed before this is used again this way. For more powerful summons, the ability drains his artistic vision, limiting him to only Cha mod uses per day. The monster summoned may be from These creatures are clearly facsimiles, as they are made out of nothing but ink and have no color, so there is no chance of disguising them as their more natural counterparts.

    (Balance-wise, this is roughly equivalent to a summons focused caster using the elemental reserve feat, except with less restrictions on what creature is summoned. Might still be an issue, but definitely better than it was.)
    You know... that's the thing I always hated about the Summon Monster tree. What the crap is a 20th level wizard/sorcerer doing running around and summoning CR 9-12 creatures when they're fighting a freaking Great Wyrm dragon? Sorry, but I don't like it.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    Oh Crap. Would it be better if there was no actual limit to AIL? An Artiste could capture whatever image they please, but could only do so much with it?
    Yes, it would. Putting the cap on the individual uses one by one would be far better(and not at all for mightier than the sword).

    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    You know... that's the thing I always hated about the Summon Monster tree. What the crap is a 20th level wizard/sorcerer doing running around and summoning CR 9-12 creatures when they're fighting a freaking Great Wyrm dragon? Sorry, but I don't like it.
    Heh, and here I am still worried that I didn't nerf it enough...

    Have you read up on the malconvoker? Try reading treantmonk's guide on it, then tell me what you think...
    Last edited by Godskook; 2009-09-23 at 01:46 PM.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    There. Changed the abilities to be based off of targets HD rather than CR.

    And I looked at the Malconvoker, Godskook, and I see what you mean. Would the change from CR to HD determined IH alliviate those problems a bit? I really don't see the problem with summoning something that's...

    *facepalm* Overshadowing the other players. An Artiste that could summon a strong enough monster could make some other members of the party feel useless by comparison. ARGH! But I don't want to limit it to just the Summon Monster lists; that's... that's... boring.
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    Default Re: There! Not Another Stroke of the Brush! [Base Class]

    Perhaps when you summon it you apply the Ink template, a template that weaken the creature.

    The Ink template:
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    Ink is a template that can be applied to any creature
    Ink creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and abilities except as noted here. Do not recalculate the creature’s Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, or skill points if its type changes.

    Size and Type: Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts, but otherwise the creature type is unchanged. Size is unchanged.

    Hit dice and Hit point: The creature number of hit dice is unchanged but adjusted bonus hit point accordingly to his new constitution modifier if any.

    Speed: Unchanged

    Armor class: If the creature posses a natural armor bonus halves it to a minumum of 1 otherwise only apply the new dexterity modifier.


    Base attack bonus: Unchanged

    Attacks: An Ink creature retain all natural weapon and weapon proeficiencies of the base creature.

    Special Attacks: An Ink creature retains all the special attacks of the base creature but the caster level for their spell-like ability is halves to a minimum of 1, and if using the special attacks demand a concious effort the Ink creature must be ordered to do so.

    Special Qualities: An ink creature retain any special quality of the base creature.

    Abilities: An ink creature gain the following adjustement to their ability score:
    -4 Str, +0 Dex, - 2 Con, no Int, -4 Wis, -4 Cha

    An Ink creature can't act independently and can only follow order, giving order to an Ink creature is a move action, but several Ink creature can follow the same order if able.

    Skill and Feat: An Ink creature retain all skill exept the one base on Int and all Feat but if using the feat demand a concious effort the Ink creature must be ordered to do so.

    Environment: Any

    Challenge Rating: - 2 ?

    Alignement: Always neutral.

    Advancement: none


    Just an idea hope that help.
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