A level 20 Monk, a Malconvoker, and Greater Planar Binding

[AirTony7]

This is quite a crazy question but here goes. The 8th lvl Malconvoker ability increases the HD for planar binding (as well as the lesser and greater versions) by 2. This means that greater planar binding can now be used to call an outsider with 20 HD. Since the monk's capstone ability means he is now an outsider for the purposes of spells and effects.

Does this mean that you could actually use Greater Planar Binding to bind level 20 monks? (As if monks needed even more problems)

[Akal Saris]

I'd say yes, if you knew the specific individual you wanted, he resided on a different plane (since native outsiders probably can't be bound), and the DM agreed. You could also bind a level 20 tiefling wizard, for example.

But you can summon a balor - why would you ever want a monk?

[Olo Demonsbane]

To further prove how much monks suck...a caster can SUMMON one...and with the correct wording bind it forever...

[taltamir]

This is quite a crazy question but here goes. The 8th lvl Malconvoker ability increases the HD for planar binding (as well as the lesser and greater versions) by 2. This means that greater planar binding can now be used to call an outsider with 20 HD. Since the monk's capstone ability means he is now an outsider for the purposes of spells and effects.

Does this mean that you could actually use Greater Planar Binding to bind level 20 monks? (As if monks needed even more problems)

worse than that... a monk of level 20 is an outsider, immune to negative effects of aging, except death, he still dies when his time is up...

Why is that so bad? because outsiders can NOT be resurrected... so as a level 20 ability the monk becomes:
1. Summonable
2. Bindable
3. Immune to resurrection
4. Immune to physical attribute decay from aging.
5. immune to spells that age the character (AFAIK, there are none)

Worse capstone ever!

[Atelm]

worse than that... a monk of level 20 is an outsider, immune to negative effects of aging, except death, he still dies when his time is up...

Why is that so bad? because outsiders can NOT be resurrected... so as a level 20 ability the monk becomes:
1. Summonable
2. Bindable
3. Immune to resurrection
4. Immune to physical attribute decay from aging.
5. immune to spells that age the character (AFAIK, there are none)

Worse capstone ever!

Actually the Monk's capstone has specific wording which says they can be brought back to life; still doesn't prevent them from being summoned and bound though.

[olentu]

worse than that... a monk of level 20 is an outsider, immune to negative effects of aging, except death, he still dies when his time is up...

Why is that so bad? because outsiders can NOT be resurrected... so as a level 20 ability the monk becomes:
1. Summonable
2. Bindable
3. Immune to resurrection
4. Immune to physical attribute decay from aging.
5. immune to spells that age the character (AFAIK, there are none)

Worse capstone ever!

Well they are not actually an outsider as I recall. A level twenty monk is just treated as an outsider for spells and magical effects. So while this would normally preclude raising from the dead there is a clause that allows them to be treated as their original type for the purposes of such magic. Though planar binding is a spell and so they would still be vulnerable to that.

[Sewblon]

I have to try binding a level 20 monk if I ever get a group together.

[taltamir]

I have to try binding a level 20 monk if I ever get a group together.

totally worth it... especially if there is a monk in your party...

EDIT: actually, why would you summon a crappy monk at 20 HD when you can actually summon something GOOD?

[olentu]

totally worth it... especially if there is a monk in your party...

EDIT: actually, why would you summon a crappy monk at 20 HD when you can actually summon something GOOD?

To throw your enemies off guard by making them underestimate your intelligence.

[taltamir]

To throw your enemies off guard by making them underestimate your intelligence.

if you summoned a monk instead of, say, a balor. Then they are correctly estimating your intelligence. ;p

But it would make for a hillarious miscast... "ok, you try to use the summon scroll, and you roll... ouch, miscast... lets see... you summon a monk, oh, that protection from evil isn't gonna work since he is not evil..."

[olentu]

if you summoned a monk instead of, say, a balor. Then they are correctly estimating your intelligence. ;p

But it would make for a hillarious miscast... "ok, you try to use the summon scroll, and you roll... ouch, miscast... lets see... you summon a monk, oh, that protection from evil isn't gonna work since he is not evil..."

I was thinking more along the lines of doing it once where they will see to deliberately feed them bad information.

[SurlySeraph]

You know? I think the evidence is piling up that monks are supposed to be monsters, not player characters. They're bad at offense but good at not dying (leading to long, interesting fights), have highly situational abilities (so the DM can always put them somewhere where their abilities help), have a cool-sounding but mechanically ineffective combat style (punching people with swords in the face)... and now, you can summon them just like outsiders.

[DragoonWraith]

For the record, you don't need to be a Malconvoker to pull this off. Infernal Bargainer is a Feat in Races of Faerûn that does the same thing as Improved Calling. The two stack, too, but I don't think there are any 22 HD Fiends out there for you to access with it (though there are fiends that you could bind with regular or lesser PB instead of the next higher one if you have both).

[taltamir]

You know? I think the evidence is piling up that monks are supposed to be monsters, not player characters. They're bad at offense but good at not dying (leading to long, interesting fights), have highly situational abilities (so the DM can always put them somewhere where their abilities help), have a cool-sounding but mechanically ineffective combat style (punching people with swords in the face)... and now, you can summon them just like outsiders.

i think you are right... at least a monk does not become immune to lycanthropy, he can get a were<lawful creature> to bite him to suck a little less. (I think werewolfs are CE, while werebears are LG?)

[Gnorman]

For the record, you don't need to be a Malconvoker to pull this off. Infernal Bargainer is a Feat in Races of Faerûn that does the same thing as Improved Calling. The two stack, too, but I don't think there are any 22 HD Fiends out there for you to access with it (though there are fiends that you could bind with regular or lesser PB instead of the next higher one if you have both).

Juiblex from the FCI has 21 HD. An Aspect of Bel from the FCII has 22, as does the Ethereal Defiler from MMV.

Those are the only canon three I'm aware of. There's probably more lurking somewhere.

[Keewatin]

i think you are right... at least a monk does not become immune to lycanthropy, he can get a were<lawful creature> to bite him to suck a little less. (I think werewolfs are CE, while werebears are LG?)

Werebear is the only LG lycanthrope but being a super fast arrow deflecting kung fu panda is way awesome!

[Indon]

worse than that... a monk of level 20 is an outsider, immune to negative effects of aging, except death, he still dies when his time is up...

Why is that so bad? because outsiders can NOT be resurrected... so as a level 20 ability the monk becomes:

Nobody can be ressurected from dying of old age.

I'd watch out about giving the level 20 Monk lycanthropy - it grants HD.

And one more nifty Outsider trick, like the others, for not only monks but tieflings and aasimar - Reincarnate would reincarnate an Outsider as another type of Outsider - so why decide between the party Monk and a Balor, when you can make the party monk into a Balor?

[The Mentalist]

And one more nifty Outsider trick, like the others, for not only monks but tieflings and aasimar - Reincarnate would reincarnate an Outsider as another type of Outsider - so why decide between the party Monk and a Balor, when you can make the party monk into a Balor?

Outsiders can't be reincarnated. That rather bites.

[Zovc]

Nobody can be ressurected from dying of old age.

I'd watch out about giving the level 20 Monk lycanthropy - it grants HD.

And one more nifty Outsider trick, like the others, for not only monks but tieflings and aasimar - Reincarnate would reincarnate an Outsider as another type of Outsider - so why decide between the party Monk and a Balor, when you can make the party monk into a Balor?

My friend died and I got him reincarnated as an elf.

Ha.

[deuxhero]

A capstoned monk loses the ability to be hit by enlarge person, Monks LOSE options at the capstone.

[Indon]

Outsiders can't be reincarnated. That rather bites.

Native outsiders - such as tieflings and level 20 monks - can.

Mind, with the Tiefling/Aasimar, the trick will only work once because they won't be outsider(native) anymore. With the Monk, however, it'll keep working so long as you let the Monk regain level 20.

[The Mentalist]

Ahhh... that's a neat trick.

[Zovc]

What's the biggest Level Adjustment we can give our Monk without giving him Hit Dice?

[deuxhero]

Half-Dragon Half-Fiend half-ect?

[Zovc]

Lich turns all his HD to d12's and has a +4 LA, Demilich doesn't seem to adjust either of those.

(I'm restricted to core for the time being, looking up random things I remember to be templates.)

[Illiterate Scribe]

A level 20 monk, a malconvoker, and a living spell of greater planar binding walk into a bar.

I haven't got much more than that. Any ideas?

[JeenLeen]

Native outsiders - such as tieflings and level 20 monks - can.

Mind, with the Tiefling/Aasimar, the trick will only work once because they won't be outsider(native) anymore. With the Monk, however, it'll keep working so long as you let the Monk regain level 20.

What would happen if you used, instead of Reincarnate, the 'Revivify' version of Reincarnate from Spell Compedium, which reincarnates them without level loss but must be used within one round?

They are changed into a normal outsider. Would their class feature then maintain their native status? Or is it that it changes them just at the moment, so they would need to go down to level 19 Monk and then up again to 20 to become outsider (native) again?

[Sinfire Titan]

totally worth it... especially if there is a monk in your party...

EDIT: actually, why would you summon a crappy monk at 20 HD when you can actually summon something GOOD?

Like an Incarnate.

[Indon]

What would happen if you used, instead of Reincarnate, the 'Revivify' version of Reincarnate from Spell Compedium, which reincarnates them without level loss but must be used within one round?

Their base type would become Outsider, but their Monk class feature would still render them as Outsider (Native) in addition to their original type. If they reincarnate without level loss, then they retain this class feature and could be reincarnated again immediately.

[JeenLeen]

Like an Incarnate.

Or a level 10 Exemplar (CAdv PrC), if your team needs a bound skillmonkey.