Souls' Magical Power

[PersonMan]

I read somewhere(I think it was the second Fiendish Codex) that you can use a soul as a replacement for some XP while casting spells. IIRC it was a mere 50 XP, regardless of type, hit dice, etc.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is a little weak? I've always considered souls to contain far more than 50 XP of power...Especially if they're from high-level characters.
Hidden message.

[Yora]

As a high level character, you can easily round up a lot of souls.

[Kobold-Bard]

I read somewhere(I think it was the second Fiendish Codex) that you can use a soul as a replacement for some XP while casting spells. IIRC it was a mere 50 XP, regardless of type, hit dice, etc.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is a little weak? I've always considered souls to contain far more than 50 XP of power...Especially if they're from high-level characters.
Hidden message.

Make it 50XP/Soul's Hit Dice. Or less XP/HD to make it even. I'll have to look this up, because I might make a character based around this.

Although 50XP isn't bad. Sacrificial rules for item crafting (BoVD) only gives you 10XP/Soul.

[taltamir]

well... are you consuming the soul, or just using up its energies as it departs this world (which are diminished from it dying)... it was meant to be an act of balance, yet it is inherently imbalanced. Imbalanced doesn't mean unplayable though, there are certainly ways to make it work, but the DM needs to think long and hard before allowing you or anyone else to harvest peasants for XP.

[Sinfire Titan]

BoVD has the rules for it. As does one of the Tomes (Frank and K, not Battle or Magic).

[PersonMan]

Make it 50XP/Soul's Hit Dice. Or less XP/HD to make it even. I'll have to look this up, because I might make a character based around this.

Although 50XP isn't bad. Sacrificial rules for item crafting (BoVD) only gives you 10XP/Soul.

That seems to be about right to me. I was thinking that "stronger" souls would give more XP.

well... are you consuming the soul, or just using up its energies as it departs this world (which are diminished from it dying)... it was meant to be an act of balance, yet it is inherently imbalanced. Imbalanced doesn't mean unplayable though, there are certainly ways to make it work, but the DM needs to think long and hard before allowing you or anyone else to harvest peasants for XP.

I mean actually capturing the soul itself. Anyways, I was thinking more along the lines of some powerful creature/BBEG using the energy of souls to create/modify creatures or magic items.

[taltamir]

I mean actually capturing the soul itself. Anyways, I was thinking more along the lines of some powerful creature/BBEG using the energy of souls to create/modify creatures or magic items.

So was I, but if the BBEG can, so can you. And so can, perhaps, many would be necromancers. It would become a very common reoccuring theme. On the other hand, I actually like it, it very much FITS with the whole "evil necromancer" thing thematically.

[SparkMandriller]

Why do souls necessarily have to charge up as people gain levels? I mean, I wouldn't expect my teeth to become some sort of superteeth that are far more powerful than regular human teeth if I was high level, so why would a soul be any different?

[taltamir]

Why do souls necessarily have to charge up as people gain levels? I mean, I wouldn't expect my teeth to become some sort of superteeth that are far more powerful than regular human teeth if I was high level, so why would a soul be any different?

i wouldn't expect to be able to take more swords to the gut either, yet somehow it happens. :)

mechanically, I would say souls are all worth the same... this makes it MORE attractive to go after the weak and innocent. A child's soul is just as filling but much easier to acquire.
For bonus points, keep a bunch of slaves and force them to breed constantly to supply you with a nice steady supply of souls to harvest. A good amount of them are allowed to mature. The elderly and a percentage of babies will be used for souls.

[Gan The Grey]

No way, there should TOTALLY be a bonus for going after a more powerful soul. And I sorta view souls as formless, gaining more definition the more experience and power a person gets. The more form, the more a soul-eater can get out of it. Or something.

But, I don't think 50/HD is really that great.

BBEG: Once I've taken the king's magnificent soul, I can finally use it to power my infernal engine that will usher in the glorious demise of this pathetic reality! HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Minion: Wait, boss. Isn't the king like, a level 15 aristocrat?

BBEG: Yes, yes. What of it?

Minion: Well, how abouts we just sacrifice 15 of our goblin troops. That's the same amount of power as the king's soul, and infinitely easier to do. We could have this engine powered within the next five minutes if you want.

BBEG: (blinks, then murders minion for being smarter than him)


I think soul's exp value should increase expotentially, and be fairly difficult to obtain from higher level creatures. Yeah, that would be cool.

[SparkMandriller]

i wouldn't expect to be able to take more swords to the gut either, yet somehow it happens. :)

Maybe you should be using guts to power spells then.

[Fishy]

You know, if you're killing the creature anyway, you gain XP for that. Which you can then spend to cast spells and make items.

I'm just sayin'.

[Gorgondantess]

You know, if you're killing the creature anyway, you gain XP for that. Which you can then spend to cast spells and make items.

I'm just sayin'.

Not nexessarily- a 20th level wizard killing a 1st level commoner doesn't get xp. Heck, I'm pretty sure a 20th level wizard killing a 10th level commoner doesn't get xp... Or something along those lines. I dunno, I'm bad with CR and xp and all that...

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Not nexessarily- a 20th level wizard killing a 1st level commoner doesn't get xp. Heck, I'm pretty sure a 20th level wizard killing a 10th level commoner doesn't get xp... Or something along those lines. I dunno, I'm bad with CR and xp and all that...

It's 8 levels above or below, actually, so he wouldn't get XP from a commoner 12th level or below or from a critter CR 28th or above.

[taltamir]

It's 8 levels above or below, actually, so he wouldn't get XP from a commoner 12th level or below or from a critter CR 28th or above.

wait... you STOP gaining XP if it is more than 8 levels above you? why? shouldn't it just CAP the XP gain instead?

[Quietus]

wait... you STOP gaining XP if it is more than 8 levels above you? why? shouldn't it just CAP the XP gain instead?

Because it's assumed that there were mitigating circumstances allowing you to even do such a miraculous thing, and that without those, it wouldn't have been possible.

[Tyndmyr]

I read somewhere(I think it was the second Fiendish Codex) that you can use a soul as a replacement for some XP while casting spells. IIRC it was a mere 50 XP, regardless of type, hit dice, etc.

Am I the only one who thinks that this is a little weak? I've always considered souls to contain far more than 50 XP of power...Especially if they're from high-level characters.
Hidden message.

A soul is a soul. Besides, rounding up commoners is pretty trivial, even at relatively low levels. This strikes me as something Im going to have to use, though.

[Omegonthesane]

Because it's assumed that there were mitigating circumstances allowing you to even do such a miraculous thing, and that without those, it wouldn't have been possible.

Technically, it's not that you don't stop gaining XP at all, it's that something very strange is going on if you're facing an ECL +8 encounter anyway.

As for destroying souls... There's already a good reason to soul-bind your greatest enemies and use their souls even if it's no more profitable than using the soul of a helpless baby. Namely, once you have used someone's soul in a sacrifice or craft or something, not even the gods themselves can resurrect that person ever again.

[taltamir]

Because it's assumed that there were mitigating circumstances allowing you to even do such a miraculous thing, and that without those, it wouldn't have been possible.

yea, miraculous strategy and planning, and it should be rewarded.

Remember there is 0 XP for KILLING things... you get XP for defeating encounters.

If the dreagon was half dead when you met it, you did not defeat the dragon, you defeated whatever level encounter a crippled near dead dragon would have been. etc

[JoshuaZ]

There are rules for it in the Book of Vile Darkness. However, they aren't very good. They make it way too easy to get lots of little souls from commoners or such. I haven't seen any homebrewed replacement but it shouldn't be that hard to come up with a better set of rules. (Also technically BoVD is 3.0 so some people may disallow it)

[PairO'Dice Lost]

wait... you STOP gaining XP if it is more than 8 levels above you? why? shouldn't it just CAP the XP gain instead?

It's not that you stop gaining XP, it's that by default there's no XP reward for it, though there may be RP or other awards. The footnote on the XP table states "The table doesn't support awards for encounters 8 or more Challenge Ratings higher than the character's level. If the party is taking on challenges that far above their level, something strange is going on, and the DM needs to think carefully about the awards rather than just taking them off a table."

[taltamir]

It's not that you stop gaining XP, it's that by default there's no XP reward for it, though there may be RP or other awards. The footnote on the XP table states "The table doesn't support awards for encounters 8 or more Challenge Ratings higher than the character's level. If the party is taking on challenges that far above their level, something strange is going on, and the DM needs to think carefully about the awards rather than just taking them off a table."

aha.. "think carefully instead of using a table"... this is totally different than "you get nothing because something is fishy".

[Sir_Elderberry]

I would say that souls do vary from person to person, but not based on level. Or not just level. I'd think it'd depend on how "spiritual" or "magical" the soul is/was. A paladin soul ought to be a nice little divine (or profane) battery. A wizard soul seems like it'd make a better arcane reagent than that of a rogue. Someone who's really, really Good or Evil seems like they'd have more cosmic weight than Mr Tell-My-Wife-I-Said-Hello True Neutral.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

aha.. "think carefully instead of using a table"... this is totally different than "you get nothing because something is fishy".

Very true, though "think carefully about awards" is usually taken to mean "give RP awards or items instead of XP."

[deuxhero]

I think soul's exp value should increase expotentially, and be fairly difficult to obtain from higher level creatures. Yeah, that would be cool.

Prehaps base it on however much XP the creature has "earned".

[Johel]

I would say that souls do vary from person to person, but not based on level. Or not just level. I'd think it'd depend on how "spiritual" or "magical" the soul is/was. A paladin soul ought to be a nice little divine (or profane) battery. A wizard soul seems like it'd make a better arcane reagent than that of a rogue. Someone who's really, really Good or Evil seems like they'd have more cosmic weight than Mr Tell-My-Wife-I-Said-Hello True Neutral.

...are we speaking of USING souls or BARGAINING souls ?
Because, rules as written, a 20th level paladin's soul is worth the same XP as a 1st level commoner.

However, if you somehow get your hands on the soul of 20th level paladin, I know a few demons who'll bargain a wish or two in exchange. That or they'll rip your belly and take the soul's gem from your bleeding corpse.

If you want a formula for "the higher level, the higher XP from the soul", try something like "HD x HD x 10 XP" per soul.
That means a 1st level commoner is worth barely 10 XP while a 20th level something is worth 4.000 XP.
It is still easier to get 400 commoners than a single 20th level something but at least, the benefit of such tactic is reduced and local authority will eventually notice it when villages start to get empty...