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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    I've seen threads on here and gleemax for the best spells available at any given level, but is there a list of spells anywhere that should be completely avoided because they just aren't worth the spellbook space?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    I think there was a list of spells by school over on Gleemax that gave really bad ones a turkey smiley. The Conception The upgrade broke it though (still readable if you can ignore the :turkey: formating appearing instead of smilieys.
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-09-28 at 09:32 PM.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Well, I'd find it better to split the spells into spellbook spells, scroll/wand spells, rare situation spells, and "just forget it" spells. There are maybe a couple trap spells per level, but many more that you'll often not want to take.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Well, for starters, you can simply ignore the entire Evocation school, other than Contigency and Defenstrating Sphere.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Well, this isn't a spell, but the psionic power Shatter Mind Blank is terrible. I honestly can't fathom what its use is.

    First, it's higher level than Dispel Psionics. Second, it allows Power Resistance and allows a Will save. Dispel Psionics ignores PR and has no save. On top of that, Shatter Mind Blank requires a Manifester Level check just like Dispel!

    SMB affects a 30 ft. radius around you, so you can get more than one person with it, and since there's no area dispel that targets a specific spell or power, perhaps it could be useful in a situation where you are surrounded by multiple people under the protection of a Mind Blank effect, and you need to remove the MB...

    Seriously... when would this EVER be useful? It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_warlock View Post
    Well, for starters, you can simply ignore the entire Evocation school, other than Contigency and Defenstrating Sphere.
    ...until people bring up the "brokenness" of forcecage and the usefulness of two dozen other spells. Often to argue against someone else's point, saying that the wizard is ready for situation X. Even though they recommend in another thread that he ban evocation.

    Seriously, do people have an enchantment(compulsion) effect on them to take pot shots at common topics every chance they get without exception? That is not the way to reason, though the sheer volume of words may convince some. That's advertising by repetition. And coke is the best cola ever. Now where's my $500 kickback?
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-28 at 09:51 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Disjunction.

    Spells that destroy your loot are the devil.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    water is better then coke...
    I agree about disjunction... especially because if you keep on using it, suddenly your enemies do to... :( And you are a broke
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    I found Bigby's Tripping Hand to be quite awful - it allows SR, a save, requires a to hit roll, and has an opposed check to negate it entirely.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Ah yes, disjunction, simultaneously one of the strongest and the worst. And, yes, water is better and cheaper than coke. I was being facetious.

    Back on topic, I'm gonna say resistance. Who would even quicken a spell for a +1 to saves? Waste of time.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-28 at 09:53 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    If psionics counts, I'm pretty sure that Slow Breathing is the stupidest power ever.
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    This may be a little too subjective or circumstancial for a definitive list.

    There are truckloads of very situational spells that you should not prepare unless you can forsee that you're going to need it... It's nearly impossible to determine just how much less valuable Silent Image is than Grease, because one is used almost exclusively outside of measurable combat.

    ...And then there are a smaller number of spells that are made literally redundant by others or by other easier methods. Those are the only ones you can safely say "do not ever think of using this spell", and this thread is best off describing those. Also, if spell B is better than spell A but is higher level, then spell A isn't completely redundant.
    Last edited by FMArthur; 2009-09-28 at 09:57 PM.
    • Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
    • Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    The tome of Necromancy listed Ghoul Gauntlet as a trap, since it shares a control pool with Animate Dead, and creating ghouls is not particularly more effective than creating simple skeletons or zombies. It is also, of course, a sixth level spell with a rather poor dps.

    But it doesn't really look all that bad, and ghouls aren't that much bad, for two HD they are better than zombies really. It's not like the LA factors into the control pool.

    Plus no material component.

    Now you want a trap? I will give you a trap. Player Handbook, page 231. Right bellow Firestorm.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    @Draken
    And for people who don't have it in front of them?
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-09-28 at 09:58 PM.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    @Draken
    And for people who don't have it in front of them?
    I'm assuming he's referring to the Fire Trap spell. Not that I have my book in front of me, just that that seems to be the next spell in alphabetical order.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Now you want a trap? I will give you a trap. Player Handbook, page 231. Right bellow Firestorm.
    Thats more of a riddle than a trap... a riddle with a fairly simple solution, but nonetheless...
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    @Draken
    And for people who don't have it in front of them?
    I prepared Fire Trap this morning...
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Ah yes, disjunction, simultaneously one of the strongest and the worst. And, yes, water is better and cheaper than coke. I was being facetious.

    Back on topic, I'm gonna say resistance. Who would even quicken a spell for a +1 to saves? Waste of time.
    It's a cantrip, though. Cantrips are automatically learned, and it's not like any of them are exactly powerful, so you don't really lose anything for having it. Sure, it becomes worthless pretty quickly...but are you seriously going to prepare ray of frost once you have any amount of levels? The only cantrips that keep any value are utility ones.

    Draken, excellent choice. In addition to being a spell that actually is a trap(Fire Trap), it's also a trap due to being a level higher than, and much weaker damage than explosive runes.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Oh....summon monster 1. All summons have a range of one round per caster level, and take a full round to cast. In short, at level one, summon monster 1 is pretty much worthless. By the time it actually is vaguely worth casting, you could have summon monster two, which is just better in every way.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by FMArthur View Post
    It's nearly impossible to determine just how much less valuable Silent Image is than Grease, because one is used almost exclusively outside of measurable combat.
    Wah Huga wahtama? Silent Image worse than grease? Silent Image not useful in combat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    The tome of Necromancy listed Ghoul Gauntlet as a trap, since it shares a control pool with Animate Dead, and creating ghouls is not particularly more effective than creating simple skeletons or zombies. It is also, of course, a sixth level spell with a rather poor dps.

    But it doesn't really look all that bad, and ghouls aren't that much bad, for two HD they are better than zombies really. It's not like the LA factors into the control pool.
    It's not just that. It doesn't share your pool, it sets your pool to a smaller number than you could already have.

    Not to mention why you would have 2HD skeletons anywhere at all when you are casting 6th level spells is beyond me.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_warlock View Post
    Well, for starters, you can simply ignore the entire Evocation school, other than Contigency and Defenstrating Sphere.
    Sure, because no Wizard ever casts "Light".
    Last edited by sonofzeal; 2009-09-28 at 10:11 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    @Draken
    And for people who don't have it in front of them?
    I don't own the book, but I imagine it's Fire Trap.

    Edit: Ninja'd several times.
    Last edited by Alteran; 2009-09-28 at 10:08 PM.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Fine, I'll leave cantrips out. How about daze monster then? The monster loses a single action but, oh wait, you just did too. But maybe the monster is strong enough so that, oh wait, 6 HD cap.

    Fire trap is only 2nd level for druids, and often easier to trigger than explosive runes. But, yes, it's a trap .

    Summon monster I is famous for being the wizard's trapfinder extraordinaire.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-28 at 10:13 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    baleful polymorph gives a +4 to resist it if you try to polymorph them into a form that cannot survive in current environment, such as a fish on land.

    I'd say that this use of it is a trap. You can instead baleful them into something that cannot run away with not extra cost. Such as a slug. or a form that they aren't likely to be able to use effectively to escape, like a bat (they don't know how to fly, they don't know how to ecolocate, and they were just switched into a nocturnal creature). Although, I'd test the bat theory first, if it gives them perfect command of new body then it is risky as they can fly away. Maybe a toad.

    The ferret polymorph is a bad idea because it is fast and can get away.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2009-09-28 at 10:13 PM.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Tenser's Transformation goes on my list of actual traps - a spell that looks like it might be good, but isn't.
    Because... congratulations. You are now essentially a Fighter with no bonus feats, lower HP, and an ability score array and items that don't fit your class.
    I get it if this is literally the last spell you have prepared... but are you really sure you wouldn't rather have had another Disintegrate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Now you want a trap? I will give you a trap. Player Handbook, page 231. Right bellow Firestorm.

    *Doh*
    Last edited by Ernir; 2009-09-28 at 10:13 PM.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Daze is weak...but it's useful as a low level spell for targeting will saves. In theory, your party bashes him while you trade actions with him. Not great, but again...it's a cantrip.

    Whispering Wind. It's like Message, but it's level 2. It has the usual limitations that message does. It does have a somewhat longer range, but unlike message, it can't be sent to multiple people. Also, it's ridiculously slow. When I call for help, I don't want it to take hours for them to even get my message.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    but are you seriously going to prepare ray of frost once you have any amount of levels?
    If you have sneak attack dice possibly.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    daze means sacrificing your action, which is useless anyways as a level 1 wizard... for maybe an enemy's action, who might be a bit stronger and is ganged up on by your tanks. so I would say it is useful.
    I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!

    the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    Useless spells:

    Virtue, as a paladin 1 spell. Paladins get hardly any spells. To burn one of those precious spell slots on a spell that grants one temporary hitpoint is a horrible trap. Even the bard doesn't face the insult of weak cantrips masquerading as 1st level spells.

    Daze monster is also a terrible option. Action advantage wins battles, and sacrificing your action for a chance of forcing one low-HD enemy to sacrifice his action is a terrible use of an action and a worse use of a spell slot. Plus, the spell quickly becomes obsolete at higher levels.

    For all the marketing it gets around here, rope trick is also A Trap! As in, everyone climbs into the extradimensional space and then the group's doofus (every group has one) says to the DM, "Hey, now that I'm in here, what happens to the stuff in that bag of holding I picked up the last adventure?" Boom. Really, rope trick is useless for its intended purpose, because I've never known a party not to use extradimensional containers like bags of holding and HHH.

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    Default Re: IT'SATRAP! - Worst Spells Per Level [3.5]

    I'll agree that it's worthless after a bit though. Not really a trap, just only useful at low levels. There's a few spells like that.

    Nystulís Magic Aura - Seems useful...but seriously, it's ridiculously specific. Does not function on non magical, non MW items. Does not function on artifacts. Only useful against detect magic. Says nothing about affecting alignment, which, if you want to hide something, is what you really want to hide. Generally not worth learning.

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