belt of gender change + pregnant + remove curse

[taltamir]

So, remove curse removes the belt of gender change...
What do you think happens if someone is pregnant and is then hit by a remove curse by someone?

EDIT: Actually, this can extend to other spells... baleful polymorph anyone? druid shapeshifting? wizard casting polymorph on herself?

[KillianHawkeye]

Ugh....

Did I REALLY need a specific reason to rule that a man wearing a reverse gender belt couldn't get pregnant?? Did I??

[Mando Knight]

It's magic. No one here knows. Depends on how the DM wants to play it.

Does it fail entirely? Do we have an M-Preg situation? Is the spell delayed until the end of the term? Does the baby go splat? Is the curse made permanent?

Personally, I'd just say that impregnation is impossible for a gender-changed subject for the duration of the curse. Avoids the issues altogether.

[Starbuck_II]

So, remove curse removes the belt of gender change...
What do you think happens if someone is pregnant and is then hit by a remove curse by someone?

Don't worry, Pregancy is a curse you removed it.

[deuxhero]

I never felt like quoting Rumiko Takahashi before...

Though IIRC changlings can't swap gender if they are pregnant.

[Green Bean]

Silly people, everyone knows the male body can sustain a fetus. If the internet has taught me anything, it's that a man is perfectly capable of giving birth even under the flimsiest of justifications. All you need is an awkward, badly written relationship with another male character, possibly but not necessarily the father. Add a few glurge-y scenes where you both worry about the baby, and you're golden. It's a romance that will stand the test of time. kill me now

[taltamir]

I never felt like quoting Rumiko Takahashi before...

Though IIRC changlings can't swap gender if they are pregnant.

Sounds familiar, which one of her comics is it from?

Actually, this can extend to other spells... baleful polymorph anyone? druid shapeshifting? wizard casting polymorph on herself?

[deuxhero]

When presured for an answer for such a question her answer was "I don't think about it and neither should you"

[SparkMandriller]

So you're who the BoEF was written for, are you?

[Glimbur]

Related question: what effect does Remove Disease have on a fetus? Is it a parasite?

[holywhippet]

Sounds familiar, which one of her comics is it from?

She was talking about Ranma 1/2 - since Ranma changes genders when splashed with water it raised the question about female Ranma getting pregnant.

[Sergeantbrother]

Sounds like an abortion to me.

[Ormur]

I'd just say the fetus would become a part of your body like a Fetus in fetu. If it's a horror setting then that would probably have some nasty consequences a la Stephen King.

[Mikeavelli]

For a certain interpretation of the spell, Remove curse might not only get out of the pregnancy even if magic wasn't involved in the first place, but might also annul your marriage!

[Ravens_cry]

Well. . . I would rule it as a man being pregnant. With cure spells at the ready and admantium scalpels in the event of damage reduction on the part of the pregnant one, it could be done quite safely. Healing magic would have to be applied as soon as the baby and placenta is removed, as men don't have the same mechanism for stopping the flow of blood from the blood vessel connected to the placenta. I would urge the remove curse to be applied after the baby is born. There is no statistical changes from being a woman, and a natural birth would be far less disruptive and risky to both the child and the mother.
That's my thought anyway.

[taltamir]

Sounds like an abortion to me.

maybe, or maybe for shape shifting the fetus is polymorphed into whatever shape the mother switches to (aka, a baby rabbit if she turns into a rabbit)... while with gender swap, maybe it just remains inside... take some con damage due to it attaching to a random organ, maybe have a percent chance of it dying.

[Paulus]

Personally, I'd just say that impregnation is impossible for a gender-changed subject for the duration of the curse. Avoids the issues altogether.

This.

Or if you consider that it is magical and the entire effect was produced by a magical change and therefore upheld by magic, if a pregnancy occurs, then when the curse is removed all of the magic goes too, and everything that goes with it. but, that is because the entire nature of problem was magical.

Now. What will really bake your noodle is, what happens when a pregnant woman puts on a belt of gender change?

[Ravens_cry]

Now. What will really bake your noodle is, what happens when a pregnant woman puts on a belt of gender change?

Again, pregnant man.
My noodle is unbaked, Oracle. And those cookies look awful.

[ericgrau]

Related question: what effect does Remove Disease have on a fetus? Is it a parasite?

Only if you believe some astoundingly biased high-school videos. No, it's a million miles away from being a parasite, and it wasn't exactly a genius idea to say "Hey, the mothers body is [voluntarily] feeding the baby. That makes the baby like a parasite."

As for the original topic, the result is a reflex save vs. a flying DMG. I'm glad this topic has stayed as civil as it has. But more seriously the kid wouldn't survive without the necessary life support organs. A parasite would though.

[taltamir]

This.

Or if you consider that it is magical and the entire effect was produced by a magical change and therefore upheld by magic, if a pregnancy occurs, then when the curse is removed all of the magic goes too, and everything that goes with it. but, that is because the entire nature of problem was magical.

Now. What will really bake your noodle is, what happens when a pregnant woman puts on a belt of gender change?

I mention three separate transformations for a pregnant woman already (baleful polymorph, druid shape shift, and polymorph)... so belt of gender change doesn't surprise me...

[taltamir]

As for the original topic, the result is a reflex save vs. a flying DMG. I'm glad this topic has stayed as civil as it has. But more seriously the kid wouldn't survive without the necessary life support organs. A parasite would though.

Fetuses produce their own life support organs. They just need access to blood vessels, which they create via hormone secretions. The uterous is a "safe place" for it, but fetuses are known to implant in ANY organ... look up "ectopic pregnancy". It is lethal, naturally.
Also some people are born with parts of their own placenta implanted into their bodies, causing horrible deformations (it is near impossible to remove in some places)

[Ravens_cry]

Only if you believe some astoundingly biased high-school videos. No, it's a million miles away from being a parasite, and it wasn't exactly a genius idea to say "Hey, the mothers body is [voluntarily] feeding the baby. That makes the baby like a parasite."

As for the original topic, the result is a reflex save vs. a flying DMG. I'm glad this topic has stayed as civil as it has. But more seriously the kid wouldn't survive without the necessary life support organs. A parasite would though.

The baby would still have the sack and placenta, these are formed during pregnancy and are not there constantly in the uterus. There actually has been a successful case of a baby growing outside the womb, both for mother and child.
*semi ninja-ed!*

[Shpadoinkle]

The way I'd rule it is this: A man who becomes a woman via magic CAN get pregnant. If she's returned to being a man before the pragnancy ends, there's no negative effect on the mother or the baby. The baby simply exists in limbo (not Limbo the plane of chaos, just a nebulous state of semi-existance) until (and if) the "mother" becomes female again, at which point she's at the same point in the pregnancy as she was right before she became male.

It works the same way for people who were born female.

[Ravens_cry]

The way I'd rule it is this: A man who becomes a woman via magic CAN get pregnant. If she's returned to being a man before the pragnancy ends, there's no negative effect on the mother or the baby. The baby simply exists in limbo (not Limbo the plane of chaos, just a nebulous state of semi-existance) until (and if) the "mother" becomes female again, at which point she's at the same point in the pregnancy as she was right before she became male.

It works the same way for people who were born female.

But that would be. . .
Schroedinger's Prego!

[Paulus]

Again, pregnant man.
My noodle is unbaked, Oracle. And those cookies look awful.

No cookies for you then. :P

I mention three separate transformations for a pregnant woman already (baleful polymorph, druid shape shift, and polymorph)... so belt of gender change doesn't surprise me...

yeah but those are all magical transitions which basically keep the same general type to type basis. Unless you meant if the poly-morphed into a different gender of the species? In which case it would still always be upheld by magic. So like all of her equipment it would meld into her body, and when she changes back, the pregnancy is as normal.

Following this logic..., I'd like to think the pregnancy remained with the woman and returned when the curse was removed! Because that is just flowers and sunshine and how I'd like it to turn out.

On a side note: Anyone remember that movie where the guy was a real jerk to women all his life and he died and would have gone to hell except they gave him once chance to find one girl who really loved him- So he came back to life, only, as a woman?

[taltamir]

The way I'd rule it is this: A man who becomes a woman via magic CAN get pregnant. If she's returned to being a man before the pragnancy ends, there's no negative effect on the mother or the baby. The baby simply exists in limbo (not Limbo the plane of chaos, just a nebulous state of semi-existance) until (and if) the "mother" becomes female again, at which point she's at the same point in the pregnancy as she was right before she became male.

It works the same way for people who were born female.

nice... it is like how your clothes are subsumed into the spell...

[ericgrau]

Fetuses produce their own life support organs. They just need access to blood vessels, which they create via hormone secretions. The uterous is a "safe place" for it, but fetuses are known to implant in ANY organ... look up "ectopic pregnancy". It is lethal, naturally.
Also some people are born with parts of their own placenta implanted into their bodies, causing horrible deformations (it is near impossible to remove in some places)

Okay, I looked it up. This is the first thing I found:

Overview
An ectopic pregnancy is an abnormal pregnancy that occurs outside the womb (uterus). The baby cannot survive.

The linked story says it is one of two cases ever, and it was a struggle. Just look at the picture and caption, for example. There is also some chemical communication between the mother's body and the baby. I dunno if a male body is equipped for that, though it might be.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

I'm creepily reminded of Total Recall.....

[Faleldir]

But that would be. . .
Schroedinger's Prego!

You have no idea what "Shroedinger's cat" means, do you?

[Ravens_cry]

No cookies for you then. :P

Really, they did. They looked like they were made out of plastic or covered in wax, which they probably were, it being movie food and all.