Spellcasters as Martial Characters [D&D 3.5]

[Mr.Bookworm]

So, I had an idea. Normally these get filed away in a mental dust collector, but I'd never seen it before anywhere in the various D&D forums (I could probably start a betting pool on how long it'll take someone to show me).

So, anyway, I had the idea of taking arcane spellcasters, and refluffing it to make all of their spells martial prowess of the Charles Atlas physics-shattering sort. So, say, Feather Fall, might be you slamming your sword into a nearby wall to slow your fall, executing a perfect rolling landing, or just slamming into the ground at terminal velocity (leaving a crater, naturally) and shrugging off those pesky bruises. Fireball could be you scraping on a piece of flint so hard that a massive fireball erupts around you, or flipping up a sewer grate and throwing a torch into the gas that comes out.

This would naturally have a different feel than a normal game, and you would probably need to redo the classes a bit, and probably some other mechanics too.

Oh, and yes, I know that Exalted is ten different shades of awesome (cool to funky to hitting someone so hard they fly a couple dozen miles through the air). This was pretty much a D&D idea, though, so if someone says X system would work great for this, thank you, I already know.

[Mongoose87]

You could simply apply the "Arcane Swordsage" concept to a Warblade or Crusader without spell failure to do this.

[Magnor Criol]

You could simply apply the "Arcane Swordsage" concept to a Warblade or Crusader without spell failure to do this.

No, no, he's not saying that. He's not trying to make a martial caster. What he's doing is basically changing the flavor of spells so that, instead of a fireball being a magic spell, it's just a guy doing something really, really action-movie-y that creates an effect exactly like a ball of fire that does 5d6 damage.

Basically, "magic isn't magic! We're all just really heroic!" =p

Seems like it could be interesting. I think it'd work best if you did away with the vancian magic system, though; perhaps a recharge system?

[Lycanthromancer]

Psionics does better for this, I think. A lot of powers can be refluffed, and you hardly have to change the powers at all.

The spell lists from core, though, should probably be whittled down a bit.

[ErrantX]

Psionics does better for this, I think. A lot of powers can be refluffed, and you hardly have to change the powers at all.

The spell lists from core, though, should probably be whittled down a bit.

2nded. Psionics fits the flavor more, plus the added benefits of Psionic feats such as Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, etc.

-X

[Godskook]

The falling challenge:
1.Be a swordsage.
2.Know a maneuver from the Shadow Blink/Jaunt/Stride line.
3.Fall from large height
4.Ready action to use maneuver immediately before hitting ground
5.????
6.Profit!

The flame challenge:
1.Swordsage again, weird huh?
2.Know Fan of flames, invest in wisdom, choose insightful strike(Desert Wind).
3.For L5, have an attack that deals more single-target damage than a fireball, quite possibly even a warmage's fireball(6d6+wis, as opposed to 5d6 for a wizard and 5d6+int for the warmage) with no save.
4.Grab Assassin's Stance for more +2d6 damage
4.??????
5.Profit!

As far as I can tell, the fluff is pretty close to what you're wanting, and, except for choosing Desert Wind for insightful strike, they're not bad choices for a Swordsage to make(Fan the flames would be subbed out later on, of course, but for low levels, its respectable).

[Lvl45DM!]

Isn't this the base for alot of monk abilities?
well in 1E anyway monks have very supernatural abilities that are just "My kung fu is stronger than yours" fluffed

[Mastikator]

Tenser's Transformation?

Edit, nevermind I misread. Though you meant casters as martial character, not spells as martial abilities.
Sorry :/

[Elfin]

This is an interesting idea. For this sort of flavor I'd personally lean more toward the arcane SS...but an interesting idea indeed.

[Draz74]

This is an interesting idea. For this sort of flavor I'd personally lean more toward the arcane SS...but an interesting idea indeed.

I'd lean towards the normal SS. But it works with non-ToB characters just fine, too, as long as this sort of over-the-top wuxia is the way your campaign is being played. I can't present any major reasons why the idea wouldn't work.

Some spells, of course, might require more creativity than Feather Fall or Fireball to explain away. Battlefield Control like Solid Fog comes to mind ... not to mention out-of-combat long-duration utilities, like Secret Page or something.

[Neek]

So, anyway, I had the idea of taking arcane spellcasters, and refluffing it to make all of their spells martial prowess of the Charles Atlas physics-shattering sort. So, say, Feather Fall, might be you slamming your sword into a nearby wall to slow your fall, executing a perfect rolling landing, or just slamming into the ground at terminal velocity (leaving a crater, naturally) and shrugging off those pesky bruises. Fireball could be you scraping on a piece of flint so hard that a massive fireball erupts around you, or flipping up a sewer grate and throwing a torch into the gas that comes out.

This isn't so much a great idea... as it is an awesome idea.

Generally, I give my players a lot of leeway to describe how their magic manifests itself. With a good, imaginative group, they can come up with some pretty fun stuff. I had a player who purposefully imposed damage to himself to research a new spell--I mean, they were core spells, but he wanted to show an evolution of learning how to cast Flaming Sphere, and used Burning Hands as the base. Ended up with flesh mittens for his troubles.

Another player was rolling a wacky-go-lucky necromancer, and his version of Featherfall was him falling straight to ground, followed by a painful bone-crunching noise that echoed, and then a deployed parachute.

Though in this instance, I really wouldn't try to retool the class into a martial mage (not that you couldn't), but allow players greater freedoms in describing their actions and the outcomes of their spells, as long as they don't violate the rules (so a fireball, no matter how it's cast or what it looks like, still does the damage it's supposed to; if they impose limitations upon themselves, then the more creative RP experience they might receive.)

You could possibly create a non-focused gish class, referencing wise assistance from the Homebrew forum, as well. This might help fit the flavor you want with the mechanics, but I'd rather just play a straight Fighter-Wizard to get this effect (which gives me great ideas on what to do with my militant Muslim dwarven Rune Mage.)

[Paulus]

Pretty easy, just call Spells "styles" and instead of arcane make it "physical" base your spell casting off of DEX and DC off of STR, liek favored soul's CHA and WIS. Give him wizard bab (old one two punch) because all of his attacking power comes from his amazing abilities with two plain attacks as his backup when he is two exhausted from using his physical styles.

hmmmm give him the wizard spellcasting prep, so he can choose which style to use, and relearn it by "training' or "Drilling" instead of meditating for spell selection. Make him have to use a scroll which display the various fighting styles, instead of a spell book.

Also lets call him, THE WIZANATOR!

[Mongoose87]

Pretty easy, just call Spells "styles" and instead of arcane make it "physical" base your spell casting off of DEX and DC off of STR, liek favored soul's CHA and WIS. Give him wizard bab (old one two punch) because all of his attacking power comes from his amazing abilities with two plain attacks as his backup when he is two exhausted from using his physical styles.

hmmmm give him the wizard spellcasting prep, so he can choose which style to use, and relearn it by "training' or "Drilling" instead of meditating for spell selection. Make him have to use a scroll which display the various fighting styles, instead of a spell book.

Also lets call him, THE WIZANATOR!

I don't think a 1/2 Bab makes all that much sense for someone who uses their sheer mastery and might in combat to create magical effects.

[Paulus]

I don't think a 1/2 Bab makes all that much sense for someone who uses their sheer mastery and might in combat to create magical effects.

But that's exactly why he doesn't rely on his base attack bonus. Because of his sheer mastery and might in combat, he hardly need do anything as mundane as punch or slap things with his sword right? Not when he can pound his feet so hard he moves faster that light and literally seems to make some kind of time stop area around him in which he can act for 1d4 rounds freely.

or pound his chest so rapidly he reconstitutes his own flesh at the molecular level and through reconfigures himself as a hydra, like some kind of polymorphing effect.

[Mongoose87]

But that's exactly why he doesn't rely on his base attack bonus. Because of his sheer mastery and might in combat, he hardly need do anything as mundane as punch or slap things with his sword right? Not when he can pound his feet so hard he moves faster that light and literally seems to make some kind of time stop area around him in which he can act for 1d4 rounds freely.

or pound his chest so rapidly he reconstitutes his own flesh at the molecular level and through reconfigures himself as a hydra, like some kind of polymorphing effect.

All that is good and well, but BaB doesn't reflect need, it reflects ability. I think it's silly if he can make by stabbing the ground in front of him, but he's sub-par when it comes to stabbing.

[Lycanthromancer]

But that's exactly why he doesn't rely on his base attack bonus. Because of his sheer mastery and might in combat, he hardly need do anything as mundane as punch or slap things with his sword right? Not when he can pound his feet so hard he moves faster that light and literally seems to make some kind of time stop area around him in which he can act for 1d4 rounds freely.

or pound his chest so rapidly he reconstitutes his own flesh at the molecular level and through reconfigures himself as a hydra dire ape, like some kind of polymorphing effect.

Fixed that for ya.