Tiny casters

[taltamir]

I noticed that magic is balanced for medium characters... the bigger you are, the better physical combat is. The smaller you are the worst physical combat is. But magic is static.

I was thinking about how a tiny spellcaster would work out. say, a petal from the MM3 for example.
You are tiny so you are hard to hit. You can fly naturally. You can't carry things well, but thats what a party is for.
Overall I think it would make for a very good primary caster.

Main problem I see is that most have a fairly large LA. Although, buyback can take care of that... as a bonus, compared to non casters of your kind, you are ridiculously overpowered.

This just takes the idea of a halfling/gnome wizard/sorc and takes it one step further...

Thoughts anyone?

[Myrmex]

Size can be quite potent. A kobold with slight build & shrink person is hard to hit, and hard to see, what with a +8 size bonus to hide. Especially useful at low levels.

I once built a kobold that carried around the Enveloping Pit (super cheap, super big version of a portable hole) from MIC, filled with dirt. Inside was the kobold's lair, which had like 10 stronghold spaces (kobold size), along with his cohort and followers. You can fit a lot in a 10'x50' cylinder when everyone's takes up as much space as a house cat.

I often joke with friends of carrying a bag full of necropolitan kobold adepts around who I use to heal me. Just reach into the bag of holding, pull one out, and command it to heal. Since they're undead, they don't need to eat or breathe, so can survive indefinitely within the non-dimensional space.

[sonofzeal]

There's a MM2 race, the Jermlain (Jermailin? Jermilain?) that are tiny, LA+0 (I think), and kick crazy amounts of butt as a Druid.

[PhoenixRivers]

Jermlaine: Str -8, Dex +6, Con -2, Int -4, Wis +6, Cha -4.

Tiny Fey
LA 0.

Good stuff.

And small size is awesome for casters.

[taltamir]

Jermlaine: Str -8, Dex +6, Con -2, Int -4, Wis +6, Cha -4.

Tiny Fey
LA 0.

Good stuff.

And small size is awesome for casters.

nice. but the int and cha penalties are unacceptable... will only be useful for druid. (or cleric, but you lose all your nice gish combat abilities)

[Bayar]

Size can be quite potent. A kobold with slight build & shrink person is hard to hit, and hard to see, what with a +8 size bonus to hide. Especially useful at low levels.

I once built a kobold that carried around the Enveloping Pit (super cheap, super big version of a portable hole) from MIC, filled with dirt. Inside was the kobold's lair, which had like 10 stronghold spaces (kobold size), along with his cohort and followers. You can fit a lot in a 10'x50' cylinder when everyone's takes up as much space as a house cat.

I often joke with friends of carrying a bag full of necropolitan kobold adepts around who I use to heal me. Just reach into the bag of holding, pull one out, and command it to heal. Since they're undead, they don't need to eat or breathe, so can survive indefinitely within the non-dimensional space.

Actually, it would have a +12. they get a +4 for being small, +4 for slight build and +4 for shrink person.

[Myrmex]

Actually, it would have a +12. they get a +4 for being small, +4 for slight build and +4 for shrink person.

Thanks.
I didn't actually bother counting, I just went with what my gut told me.

[taltamir]

what is that "slight build"?

[Myrmex]

what is that "slight build"?

It's from the web enhancement on kobolds, works like powerful build, but in reverse.

[Alleine]

Half-giant + Return to Nature = as small as you can afford.

Return to nature is a druid spell in ECS that has the peculiar effect of shrinking giants one size category. Permanently. And by permanently I mean instantaneous. So for the low price of +1 LA and whatever cash you need to pay for the spell, you too can be ridiculously tiny.

[Vizzerdrix]

Tibbits are from one of the dragon Mags. No LA race that can turn into a cat.

[Person_Man]

Here's a build that revolves around being as small as possible. I'd suggest Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures, as they can turn into a Sparrow.

Fine But Deadly

Spoiler

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Oriental Adventures Samurai 1 or Factotum 1/Knight X

Like Sir Spoony, this tactic can be combined with any other Knight build, as long as you have the feats available.

The key to this build is a feat called Confound the Bigfolk from Races of the Wild. It has some very specific mechanics you have to follow, but basically if you're two sizes smaller then your enemy then you can move into his square, and the next round he’s Flat Footed against you, and when other enemies attack you they have a 50% chance of hitting the enemy in your square instead of you.

Now, there are a bunch of different methods for getting really small (preferably Fine, so you can effect anyone who is Tiny size or larger):
Reduce Person
Compression
Alter Self
Polymorph
Polymorph Any Object
Ring of Reduction (Lords of Madness pg. 130)
Divine Minion template (hawk or cat).
Tibbit (Polymorph into cat) Dragon Compendium.
Jermalaine (Tiny, MMII) tiny, LA +0
Muckdweller (Serpent Kingdoms)
Master of Many Forms (Wildshape: Diminuitive at 8th)
Hengeyokai (Polymorph into sparrow)

My suggestion is Hengeyokai because sparrows are Fine sized. Once you’ve found a way to get really small, the tactics are pretty straitforward:

1) Move into an enemy's square and find something to do for one round.

2) Use Test of Mettle. Enemies attack you. They have a 50% chance of hitting their friend, and a 50% chance of hitting you (which should be very difficult, given your Size, Dex, armor, shield, Underfoot/Confound bonuses, Combat Expertise, etc). If they kill the enemy whose square you're in, move into another enemy's square.

3) If he’s still alive, attack the enemy whose square you are in. He’ll count as being Flat Footed, which opens him up to Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, and Iaijutsu Focus.

Iaijutsu Focus is a Skill from Oriental Adventures. (By RAW, 3.0 is grandfathered into 3.5, and the Samurai and Factotum both get it as class Skills). Whenever you are making an attack roll immediately after drawing a weapon and your target is Flat Footed you may make an Iaijutsu Focus check as a free action. You can gain massive damage to your attack, based on your check. And it goes without saying that Skills are quite easy to boost via feats, items, dips into Marshal, Item Familiars, and spells. You can use Quickdraw (Knight bonus feat) to draw a weapon every time you want to attack, or invest in Exotic Weapon Prof (Gnome Quickrazor, from Races of Stone), which is a free action to draw and sheath. Of course, to use this tactic successfully, you’ll need a modification on your Knight Code from your DM. If he makes you play it RAW, then you should consider a different build.

Special thanks to Darrin for suggesting most of the ways to get very small in various threads on similar topics.

[Kobold-Bard]

For a lowly +1 LA you could become a Frogrider, a template of Fax''s that I frankly love, and thoroughly intend to use next chance I get.....

...What. Don't look at me like that. IT GETS TO RIDE AROUND ON A FROG THE SIZE OF A CAT!! HOW ARE YOU NOT MORE EXCITED ABOUT THIS!!!

[Vizzerdrix]

For a lowly +1 LA you could become a Frogrider, a template of Fax''s that I frankly love, and thoroughly intend to use next chance I get.....

...What. Don't look at me like that. IT GETS TO RIDE AROUND ON A FROG THE SIZE OF A CAT!! HOW ARE YOU NOT MORE EXCITED ABOUT THIS!!!

Frogrider warforged! :D

any reason a warforged couldn't be made tiny? They'd make excellent bodyguards. I can see them being in high demand as "toys" for noble children. The plaything that plays back and is a first line of defense against assassins, kidnappers and abductions.

[Blackfang108]

Frogrider warforged! :D

any reason a warforged couldn't be made tiny? They'd make excellent bodyguards. I can see them being in high demand as "toys" for noble children. The plaything that plays back and is a first line of defense against assassins, kidnappers and abductions.

Man, I WISH I had one of those growing up.

[Cieyrin]

Frogrider warforged! :D

any reason a warforged couldn't be made tiny? They'd make excellent bodyguards. I can see them being in high demand as "toys" for noble children. The plaything that plays back and is a first line of defense against assassins, kidnappers and abductions.

Frogforged!

[Person_Man]

Frogforged!

[Kobold-Bard]

I must have it for my mount. What kind of LA do you think that would need?

[Vizzerdrix]

Frog effigy creature with some form of shape change SLA... (but how to get a sla on a construct?!)

OR a druid warforged with a frog motif.

[Sliver]

Does having three eyes benefit him? It looks like a were-warforged frog..

[Bayar]

So that's how warforged druids wildshape !

[Person_Man]

I must have it for my mount. What kind of LA do you think that would need?

None. You can get an Effigy Creature (Complete Arcane, basically a construct animal) several different ways. My homebrew Iron Man class also offers a Construct Companion of your choice.

More importantly, Rule of Cool. If a player wants something as crazy awesome as a transformer frog mount, they get it.

[cZak]

Monte Cook's Arcanna Unearthed has a faen race, subdivided into loresongs (the more magic apt) and the quicklings (kinda self descriptive).

Both are small creatures, but when they reach third level (any class) they can sacrifice a feat 'slot' for Metamorphosis. Metamorphosis transforms them into sprytes which are tiny sized with a fly speed (wings). And, the spryte has three racial levels which give it improved dexterity, some minor SLA effects (charm, ghost sound, light, etc...), and eventually perfect maneuverability (fly).

Fools are made to suffer, not to be suffered

[Vortling]

Personally I like the idea of a petal spellcaster. Even though it has the +2 LA it's got a good set of abilities that complement spellcasting. Unless your group is optimization heavy you won't feel the LA and there's always buy off. Mind you the Jermalaine (little rat things) is much better for wis based casters since it doesn't have any LA at all.