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Thread: Monkey GP value

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Monkey GP value

    How much dose a monkey cost.

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    How much are you willing to pay?

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Seriously I'm figuring around 75 gp. I was just wondering if there was an official number somewhere.

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    Hadozee don't like being called monkeys.
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Quote Originally Posted by Yar View Post
    Seriously I'm figuring around 75 gp. I was just wondering if there was an official number somewhere.
    There's something on pricing an animal based on its HD, but I can't remember if it's in MM2 (under the Warbeast template) or the Arms & Equipment Guide.

    Any particular reason it has to be a monkey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yar View Post
    Seriously I'm figuring around 75 gp. I was just wondering if there was an official number somewhere.
    As far as I know, no. However, I'd base it on availability and dog prices. Essentially, I'm guessing the price of a dog presumes common availability and moderate demand. Assuming you were in a place where monkeys were both common, and commonly trained/sold it would be the same price. If monkeys are less common, or in higher demand than dogs it would be higher. I'd probably say somewhere like the D&D analog of India monkeys would costs around 50 GP (somewhat less commonly sold than dogs in typical settings, but still not hard to acquire), but in more typical settings they might run over 1,000 GP (since they'd be exotic, difficult to acquire, and sought after).

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    You want monkey? I get you good monkey, very cheap. Wait here while I visit zoo.

    *Returns later*

    Did not do so well with new monkey. Did you say monkey should be alive or dead? Never mind. Tell you what, ever you consider having baboon heart? I get you baboon heart, very cheap. But since you get baboon heart, ever consider selling old heart? I get you good price on heart, very nice. Lie on table while I get saw.

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    It would obviously depend on where and when you are. It's not like buying a horse or a cow; nobody is standing on a street corner shouting "GET YOUR MONKEYS HERE! WE GOT MONKEYS!" It's pretty much a specialty item.

    If you're buying a monkey near a jungle full of various apes, I imagine monkeys would be a bit cheaper, say, 100 g.p. Elsewhere, it's going to be expensive. The frozen north is not well known for its varieties of monkeys. A rare animal should be pretty expensive.
    Last edited by Giggling Ghast; 2009-09-30 at 04:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Well, the most expensive animal listed in the SRD is an ox, which is only 15gp. Of course, in the assumed medieval setting, oxen are fairly easy to come by, whereas monkeys are probably much less commonplace. Therefore, as an exotic creature, you could expect to pay 2-10 times as much to purchase one. The average price for mundane animals (as listed in the link above) is just over 5gp, so if you had to pay 10 that for an exotic, you'd be looking at 50gp. Give or take some coinage, depending on market conditions, local monkey populations, DM attitudes towards simian ownership, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Well, the most expensive animal listed in the SRD is an ox, which is only 15gp. Of course, in the assumed medieval setting, oxen are fairly easy to come by, whereas monkeys are probably much less commonplace. Therefore, as an exotic creature, you could expect to pay 2-10 times as much to purchase one. The average price for mundane animals (as listed in the link above) is just over 5gp, so if you had to pay 10 that for an exotic, you'd be looking at 50gp. Give or take some coinage, depending on market conditions, local monkey populations, DM attitudes towards simian ownership, etc.
    Er, check Goods and Services. Ox isn't even close to the most expensive listed animal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Temet Nosce View Post
    Er, check Goods and Services. Ox isn't even close to the most expensive listed animal.
    Well, if the OP wanted a riding monkey, then I'd have based my price assumptions on that. But he didn't, so I didn't either. I went with the more common animal listings, with ill-defined utility, as he did not state his intended purpose for having a monkey, & I presumed that he did not wish to ride it. My bad.

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    My expectations of monkey ownership would include banana disposal, poo flinging, and general hilarity. Give your players such abilities with caution...

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Also, a trained monkey should cost a lot more than an untrained monkey. Even if untrained monkeys are dirt-cheap, however, they may be an ill-advised purchase, especially in bulk. An old KODT strip explored this general scenario, albeit with pitbull terriors in the place of monkeys.

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    As is starting to come up, verisimilitude (supply/demand) pricing or metagame (how much will this balance/unbalance the game) pricing? I mean, just a few gp from a metagame perspective, if you just want the thing as a pet. However, assuming a medieval Europe esque world where monkeys are very rare (because they have to be imported from another continent), I'd say 50-200 gp. Fifty if there's a guy nearby who breeds monkeys (having found a way to keep them healthy in this rather different climate, for example, & marketing them so they've become the latest fad pet for noble kids). Two hundred (or more) if they're virtually unheard of and you just happened to find one of the first merchants bringing one to this continent.

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    You drive a hard bargain, Candle Jack, but I would be
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Well, if the OP wanted a riding monkey, then I'd have based my price assumptions on that. But he didn't, so I didn't either. I went with the more common animal listings, with ill-defined utility, as he did not state his intended purpose for having a monkey, & I presumed that he did not wish to ride it. My bad.
    That still leaves horses and guard dogs, which are not listed with special training. Either way, Ox is most certainly not the most expensive listed animal in the SRD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Temet Nosce View Post
    That still leaves horses and guard dogs, which are not listed with special training. Either way, Ox is most certainly not the most expensive listed animal in the SRD.
    Wow. I just explained, in plain English, my reasoning for ignoring horses & riding dogs. Guard dogs are specially trained, whereas the OP did not mention needing a trained monkey. Normal dogs are certainly much cheaper, but don't have a listed price, so we can ignore dogs of all stripes as being irrelevant to the conversation. I understand that there are more expensive animals in the SRD (after all, I'm the one linking to the SRD to cite the source of my base assumptions), but I have now twice stated my reasons for discounting them in my calculations. I should hope that I don't need to explain myself again.
    Last edited by Zeta Kai; 2009-09-30 at 09:33 PM.

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    why all this effort to make this guy's life hell and overcharting for the privilege of having a cool pet?
    At most, make him do a quick quest to get one...

    What does it cost to get a dragon familiar? a lightening lizard? etc... what does it cost the druid to get some exotic animal familiar?

    And this is not just some "medieval world", its a pseudo mediaval world with some modern values tossed in and an impossible economy and amazing world shattering magic.
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Quote Originally Posted by Temet Nosce View Post
    That still leaves horses and guard dogs, which are not listed with special training. Either way, Ox is most certainly not the most expensive listed animal in the SRD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta Kai View Post
    Guard dogs are specially trained.
    While the SRD doesn't directly state this, it is absolutely the most reasonable assumption. It tells us that a riding dog is "specially trained" for riding; hence a guard dog is most likely also trained. If you have an animal such as a dog as a pet and wish to teach them tricks, teaching them to guard is one of the things that you can do. Here's Handle Animal from the SRD:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Guard (DC 20): The animal stays in place and prevents others from approaching.
    So, a dog that can guard must've been trained. Training costs time (and time is money!), hence the guard dog will cost more than a regular dog and qualifies as "specially trained" in comparison with just a regular pet (dog, monkey, whatever).

    As far as horses, we can also safely assume they're specially trained. Why? They can be safely ridden. Even just looking at riding dog vs. guard dog prices, we can see there's a big cost difference; the same applies to a mule vs. a pony. Concluding this is most likely due to the training of making the animal appropriate for a mouth is reasonable.

    In conclusion, oxen are the cheapest non-trained/minimally-trained (?) animals in the SRD. Of course, I wonder about the accuracy of some of their prices anyway (one chicken is only as valuable as a pound of flour?!), but really, more information about the setting & circumstances (which the OP has yet to provide) are necessary for any sort of a supremely accuate price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    why all this effort to make this guy's life hell and overcharting for the privilege of having a cool pet?
    At most, make him do a quick quest to get one...
    Ummm.... He asked for prices. We're giving him prices. I fail to see the problem.

    What does it cost to get a dragon familiar? a lightening lizard? etc... what does it cost the druid to get some exotic animal familiar?
    It should cost a lot. Varies campaign to campaign. However, dragons are usually native to a pseudo-European continent. Monkeys are not.

    And this is not just some "medieval world", its a pseudo mediaval world with some modern values tossed in and an impossible economy and amazing world shattering magic.
    Who's to say that it is or isn't? Without more information about the setting, we can't say. I, for one, would not just tell my player "Yeah, I'll totally mix up the flavor and flora/fauna of one of my nations so you can get a poo-flinging pet." Some people would throw a hissy fit, but I pick players who realize they're somewhat constrained by my feelings of verisimilitude. Your approach is far more metagame and about just having fun with whatever one feels like inserting into the game which is fine, but doesn't suit all playing styles or groups.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    the RAW is to say that it isn't, because the RAW is where you are getting your prices from.
    And people here have actually SAID that:
    However, assuming a medieval Europe esque world where monkeys are very rare (because they have to be imported from another continent)
    in the end, it really depends on the world and the DM.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2009-09-30 at 10:02 PM.
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    A mule costs 8 gp. A cat is 1 sp IIRC (less?). So I'd guess a monkey would cost almost nothing compared to what an adventurer can afford... if you can find one at all. In a lot of areas it may be difficult. You may have to find a shipment sent to an aristocratic circle. And then the cost is dependent entirely on how many monkeys they have and how much the common owner can afford.

    So short answer is next to nothing, as much as an aristocrat can afford, or anywhere in between. i.e., talk to the DM.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-30 at 10:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Ah, here it is... MM2, Warbeast template.

    A monkey trained for war (would you really want anything less?) would cost 100 GP (50 GP per HD, and Warbeast gives it +1 HD).

    Aside from the obligatory hat and vest, you can teach a monkey to throw things such as marbles (A&EG p. 24, non-magical grease), caltrops, splash weapons, alchemical items, etc. There's a Throw trick in Dragon #323, p. 101, Handle Animal DC 25. Range increment 5' (but gorillas get 10'), -4 penalty to hit a specific creature or square. Throwing a net (size issues) or lasso (BoED, no size issues) might also be possible... I think I saw a trick somewhere to teach an animal to attack with a weapon, but I can't find it now.

    Here's a really odd trick... teach him to throw a tiny-sized caber (requires kilt, of course), and by RAW it does 2d6 damage regardless of size.

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    And we all know that monkeys are good at throwing stuff
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Quote Originally Posted by The Neoclassic View Post
    ...In conclusion, oxen are the cheapest non-trained/minimally-trained (?) animals in the SRD...
    I believe you mean that they are the most expensive non-trained/minimally-trained animals in the SRD. Other than that, I am of the same mind in regards to such things. I had come to the same conclusions regarding animals & prices, & had assumed that a cursory analysis by any reasonable person would reach that same said conclusion. Funny thing about assumptions, though...

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    I would assume you can somehow get a monkey as a familiar - provided you meet the class/feat requirements.

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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Supply Side:
    How much does it cost to get the monkey?
    Let us presume a troupe of exotic animal catchers is going to get monkeys. They will fill several cages with as many monkeys as they can. I assume a cage and a simple lock costs 25 gp and weighs 50 pounds (big cage), roughly. I also will assume that a monkey weighs 10 lbs (I think that number is high, but it makes up for the extra force from the monkeys moving around the cage violently. Two normal hirelings should be able to carry 200lbs between the two of them, so each cage can hold 15 monkeys.

    Let us say a crew of 20 men went out for this task and had to make a trip 200 miles by ship and then 50 miles by land. That's 200sp each way (for a total of 40gp) on the ship and 3gp per cab each way on land (you will need roughly 10 coaches to make this leg of the trip, so 30GP). The Trip will take about 5 months total on the ship and then about 1 month on land. I also assume a week of hunting, bringing us to 190 days, roughly. At 6 gp a day for all twenty, it comes out to 1140 gp for the trained hirelings. You also have to feed the monkeys for half of that, so 4.75gp per monkey in feed (712.5gp).

    250GP for equipment
    70GP for travel
    1140GP for the wages
    713GP for animal feed
    =2173GP

    Lets add 20% for profit, unanticipated costs, cost of not being able to sell immediatly, etc.
    =2608GP

    Now, let's divided this by the 150 Monkeys we caught (15 per cage, 1 cage per two men, 20 men)
    =17.4 GP per monkey.
    I think rounding this out to 20GP should be more than fair.

    Mind you, longer trips can add significantly to the cost of procuring the monkey.

    Training the monkey is another matter entirely. I would be willing to believe a trainer would charge 1gp/day per animal (at 7gp/week for each animal, of which he could train at least 5 at a time, 35gp/week, 157.5gp/month is a very impressive living). If it takes one month to fully train the monkey, that would add 30 gp, bringing the total up to ~50GP.

    I'm sure demand would be much higher than these estimates, and 100GP for a trained monkey would be easy to accept.
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    What if they catch 300 monkeys.

    I imagine they'd buy them from foreigners who raise the monkeys from birth, rather than catching wild ones. They're both easier to find and more docile that way. So then it's just a matter of how many monkey cages can the ship hold, what's the cost of the voyage, and how much money do the merchant, crew and shopkeeper expect to make. Divide cost + profit by the number of monkeys, and there's your estimate.

    I think it'd still be dirt cheap that way if they import any significant number of monkeys. But if they import only a few for aristocrats, and if they know they can ask for more money from those people and get it, then the monkeys will cost much more.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-09-30 at 11:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    the RAW is to say that it isn't, because the RAW is where you are getting your prices from.
    RAW says that dragons exist. Does this mean we can automatically assume all settings must contain dragons?

    And people here have actually SAID that:
    Umm, I was the one that said that so I don't get what your point is.

    in the end, it really depends on the world and the DM.
    Isn't that exactly what I said? I just stated my calculations/conclusions based on the assumption that the world was roughly pseudo-medieval (and if you look at the SRD's list of animals under equipment and commodities, you'll notice they are distinctly medieval European- not with a smattering of just any ol' animal from another continent) and the players were on a European-ish continent. I then clarified that it depended on the setting- exactly as you quoted me- by showing the assumptions I was using for my conclusion. You stated, essentially, it was unreasonable of us ever to calculate such high prices since it would be squashing a player's fun. So... are you trying to say we agree that it depends on the setting or are you claiming I'm the one trying to say "My way is the only accurate way" (when that is not an accurate claim at all)?

    Zeta Kai: Oh yeah! That was a typo. Anyway, that's why we state our assumptions rather than just saying "It ought to be this way! Other ways are a ban on the fun! Nyah!" Or so I like to think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    What if they catch 300 monkeys.
    Heh... good idea...
    DM: A monkey costs 500 gp a peice...
    PC: alright...

    later...
    DM: congrats on leveling, you are now level 9...
    PC: Awesome... Lets see, I am gonna take teleport... and teleport to the nearby continent... where I will acquire a horde of monkeys and bring them back for sale... you said 500gp a piece right?

    The simple solution is to say:
    "you search around in pet shops and cannot find any monkies. however one of them says he knows a guy who specializes in bringing in exotic animals via teleportation to their country of origin and purchase there. The monkey itself costs 5gp, but the service of teleportation will cost X gp (say, 200gp?)"
    Or you can wait until you are high enough level to cast it yourself.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2009-10-01 at 01:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Monkey GP value

    Monkeys are in with Dire Rats, Eagles, Octopi, Owls, Porpoises, Small Vipers, and Wolves in the Summon Nature's Ally 1 spell. I'd say that it'd cost approximately the same as any of those.

    Wolves would be the wild equivalent of Dogs, and there are prices for various trained dogs: 25 for a Guard Dog, 150 for a Riding Dog. The DC for teaching an animal to Guard and the DC for teaching an animal for combat riding is the same (20). Wolves would only require one skill check, at DC 17, to rear them from the wild. Monkeys would be DC 16. Since the DC for a Monkey is 80% of the DC for a dog, I'd say that the final cost would be somewhere between 16 and 120 gp, depending on how close you are to a jungle and how hard it is to find the monkey. If the monkey comes trained for a purpose or has specific tricks, the cost would be more.

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