How would a Slaad Invasion affect the greyhawk setting.

[Volkov]

I have always use Greyhawk as my campaign setting just as how my old DM's have, and while I was drafting up the story line for my campaign, I wondered, How would a Slaadi Invasion of the other planes affect the setting. I ask this, because I need to draft up how the invasion would affect the setting in detail. I ask this as I have a history of very well detailed campaigns that are all very rich and life-like that I need to live up to.

[BobVosh]

How big is said invasion? World wide? One country? etc

[JonestheSpy]

Also "Why the heck are the Slaad invading, and how are the denizens of the other Outer Planes reacting to it?"

[Volkov]

How big is said invasion? World wide? One country? etc

Limbo send out over 1/2 of all of it's slaads to attack.

[Volkov]

Also "Why the heck are the Slaad invading, and how are the denizens of the other Outer Planes reacting to it?"

The two Slaad Princes want to expand Limbo into the entire plane, and hope to eventually consume the far realm as well. I'm not sure if they were already in greyhawk, but I also placed the Plane of Dreams, the Spirit Plane, the temporal energy plane, and the faerie plane into the great wheel. If that gives any more info.

[Leewei]

The invasion would be more like an infestation. Slaadi would show up and brutally subjugate, destroy or otherwise disrupt every population they came across. They'd bully, maul, impregnate or otherwise anyone who submitted to them. Any government left in the wake of this infestation would be at best petty feudalism with the strongest Slaad in the area twisting the arms of other Slaadi and conquered beings.

Individual Slaad might be reasoned with through bribes, flattery and information about their rivals. Their only real motives are fear of the Slaad Lords, lust for power and their particular brand of hedonism.

Certain powerful countries, enclaves, dungeons or other areas will probably be left alone unless a Slaad of sufficient power becomes aware of it and decides it's worth acting upon.

As to the motives of the Slaad Lords? Sheer machismo. Each was topping the other's boasts of greatness and prowess in battle until they finally committed the better part of their entourages into the fray. Clever PCs might seek out one of the Lords and convince them of other uses for their conscripts.

[Volkov]

I'm pretty sure they'd attempt to directly invade Mechanus, as it represents everything the slaads hate in the multiverse. But I wonder how the slaad invasion would affect the blood war.

[LibraryOgre]

Greenly. Cheese frosting knuckles dear-quip, nosegay horizon. Goldfish taco.

[Volkov]

Greenly. Cheese frosting knuckles dear-quip, nosegay horizon. Goldfish taco.

O.K......I'm pretty sure even the mud slaad is capable of coherent speech.

[Mercenary Pen]

O.K......I'm pretty sure even the mud slaad is capable of coherent speech.

But might there be a stranger and greater power behind the slaad... For example, are the slaad princes being manipulated by aberrations or somesuch?

Or, to express this sentiment properly:

Eagles of the fifth ascending. Children of the metal mercy fish shall custard in the dance.

[Volkov]

But might there be a stranger and greater power behind the slaad... For example, are the slaad princes being manipulated by aberrations or somesuch?

Or, to express this sentiment properly:

Eagles of the fifth ascending. Children of the metal mercy fish shall custard in the dance.

The slaad princes are to chaos as the General of Gehenna is to evil, they're the firsts and the overlords of the alignment. And I'm pretty sure nothing manipulates the general of gehenna, who is perhaps the greatest manipulator of them all save for vecna. I'm not sure what is the equivalent of them for the forces of order, but it could be primus or the formian's greatest queen. As for good, I have no clue as to whom.

Plus, the Slaad princes aren't the type of beings a manipulator would want to control, too much risk of deviation from a plan. '

However, Far Realm entities are very powerful, with horrid CR 18 beasts such as Father Illymic being a mere MOTE of THOUGHT given form from there.

[Mercenary Pen]

Plus, the Slaad princes aren't the type of beings a manipulator would want to control, too much risk of deviation from a plan.

Who says there was a plan. Chaos may have been all that was desired from them, possibly to soften up foes for something else, and if everything's your foe- it doesn't matter who they choose to hit...

Agreed about the potential for far realm involvement. Also the utterly alien nature of the far realm might give them better ability to manipulate creatures as chaotic as the slaadi.

[Volkov]

Limbo would perhaps be the easiest plane the great wheel has for the Far Realm beings to survive in, as it shares many common traits with the far realm, albeit many of them are lessened. And perhaps they could planarform it into another far realm, or draw it into the far realm.

[LibraryOgre]

O.K......I'm pretty sure even the mud slaad is capable of coherent speech.

That was coherent. You just don't know the CODE.

[chiasaur11]

That was coherent. You just don't know the CODE.

Ah, *campers*. Do not be *frumple* or we will not have *parties*.

Now that you are *campers* you will have more *parties*
and no more *sad* *lonely* *bubbles*.
This is the *secret*.

[Jergmo]

Trying to consume The Far Realm with Chaos? That's...that's like trolling /b/.

[Stormthorn]

However, Far Realm entities are very powerful, with horrid CR 18 beasts such as Father Illymic being a mere MOTE of THOUGHT given form from there.

Perhaps the force behind the invasion was Far Realm, acting through the chaoticly aligned Slaad. A Half-Farspawn Slaad lord would be a terrible force indeed. Assuming it was sane enough to put together bread and butter.

[Rainbownaga]

Maybe the far-realms are invading limbo rather than the other way around and the slaad are fleeing into the prime.

Just as in the abyss, older creatures of chaos overthrow younger ones, but without the evil alignment there is less of an urge to destroy, rather just supplant, leaving a lot of slaad as refugees with no where to go.

[Eldan]

The slaad princes are to chaos as the General of Gehenna is to evil, they're the firsts and the overlords of the alignment. And I'm pretty sure nothing manipulates the general of gehenna, who is perhaps the greatest manipulator of them all save for vecna. I'm not sure what is the equivalent of them for the forces of order, but it could be primus or the formian's greatest queen. As for good, I have no clue as to whom.

Of course the General is being manipulated. By the Baern, for one.

Primus has the Mediators (scary things, really. They cast wishes) and Primus, who's technically a god. Formians aren't native there, they come from Arcadia.

Now, it might be, le'ts just say, relatively difficult to organize Slaadi into anything even resembling an army, even for the Princes. By the way, weren't their four princes? Or is that different in Greyhawk?

[JellyPooga]

The invasion would be more like an infestation. Slaadi would show up and brutally subjugate, destroy or otherwise disrupt every population they came across. They'd bully, maul, impregnate or otherwise anyone who submitted to them. Any government left in the wake of this infestation would be at best petty feudalism with the strongest Slaad in the area twisting the arms of other Slaadi and conquered beings.

Individual Slaad might be reasoned with through bribes, flattery and information about their rivals. Their only real motives are fear of the Slaad Lords, lust for power and their particular brand of hedonism.

Certain powerful countries, enclaves, dungeons or other areas will probably be left alone unless a Slaad of sufficient power becomes aware of it and decides it's worth acting upon.

As to the motives of the Slaad Lords? Sheer machismo. Each was topping the other's boasts of greatness and prowess in battle until they finally committed the better part of their entourages into the fray. Clever PCs might seek out one of the Lords and convince them of other uses for their conscripts.

Why?

I have to say, I don't see Slaad doing this. They're not Evil, they're Chaotic. If they "invaded" at all it would be because of some race-wide whim to suddenly go to the material plane. Once there they could be expected to do anything from hepling orphans plant daisies to humping the kings favourite race horse. Sure, some of them would take the 'brutal subjugation' route, but they could be expected to get bored and change tack.

I agree that a Slaad invasion would be more like an infestation, but I see it in a similar way to, for example, your dog having fleas. It's an inconvenience and you could try to do something about it, but ultimately without the means to do so, you may as well just wait it out. I think a Slaad invasion would be an interesting concept, but I don't think it would neccesarily mean the mortal races becoming a de facto slave race to the lords of chaos...

[Volkov]

Of course the General is being manipulated. By the Baern, for one.

Primus has the Mediators (scary things, really. They cast wishes) and Primus, who's technically a god. Formians aren't native there, they come from Arcadia.

Now, it might be, le'ts just say, relatively difficult to organize Slaadi into anything even resembling an army, even for the Princes. By the way, weren't their four princes? Or is that different in Greyhawk?

Ah your right, there are more than two. I was just remembering the ones at the spawning stone.

[Yora]

Then make the whole thing center around a beacon artifact. Something is drawing the slaads to the material plane. They still act mostly independet and without a real plan, but they all just want to get there. And once there, they just do slaad things.

[Leewei]

JellyPooga: Why? Well, that's largely due to the descriptions I see of the various Slaad types. They're brutal, selfish and bullying, but not inclined to destruction in the same way demons are. I tried avoiding words like domineering and tyranical in desribing how they'd act. It's more like the childhood story "Where the Wild Things Are" -- sufficiently powerful mortals or other creatures would be able to push them around as well. Individual power is something they'd respect. Beings lacking this power would be playthings.

[Kaiyanwang]

JellyPooga: Why? Well, that's largely due to the descriptions I see of the various Slaad types. They're brutal, selfish and bullying, but not inclined to destruction in the same way demons are. I tried avoiding words like domineering and tyranical in desribing how they'd act. It's more like the childhood story "Where the Wild Things Are" -- sufficiently powerful mortals or other creatures would be able to push them around as well. Individual power is something they'd respect. Beings lacking this power would be playthings.

More, add to this that a lot of Slaadi are can be corrupted by evil.. think about Death Slaadi or Bazim-Gorag from (CoR).

Nevertheless, I'd not push too much on the evil part, at least not in the beginning of the campaign. For the start, the infestation idea is great and coherent with the Slaadi "biology".

Consider that the link Slaadi / Chaos+ Evil could be an hook for the Demons to enter in the campaign. And a lot of Outsiders could be pis*** off for this:

Inevitables: too much Chaos

Devils: see above (and maybe they could manage to have an advantage from the situation, maybe showing celestial's methods as "weak")

Celestials: a lot of people could be harmed

Consider that even Gith don't like slaadi - but they don't care about other people.. this could be a role playing hook.

Could be a planar mess! And if Slaadi are able to cross planar barriers, well, maybe even other outsiders could. Or the problem is that only Slaadi can, so you have to summon or gate other outsiders..

OP: if can be useful, you can find slaadi (other than in MM)

ELH: Black and White Slaadi. Nasty.

FF: Mud Slaadi.

CoR: Bazim Gorag, fire based slaadi "boss".

[Cieyrin]

As for a Greyhawk reaction, I don't think Iuz would take kindly to a Slaadi infestation, as he's busy trying to take over this mudball and they can't have it!

Let alone what the Circle of Eight will put into action, as Rari and Robilar are off in hiding again, last I checked, so an extradimensional invasion would be drawing some powerful attention.

[arguskos]

By the way, weren't their four princes? Or is that different in Greyhawk?

Yes, there are four, with a technical fifth in the Realms (we don't talk about him much):
-Ygorl, Lord of Entropy
-Ssendam, Lord of Madness
-Renbuu, Lord of Colors
-Chorst, Lord of Randomness
-Bazim-Gorag (FR-specific, is CE not CN)

There is another one, but all we have about him is his name, so we ignore him too, Wartle.

[PonceAlyosha]

Who says there was a plan. Chaos may have been all that was desired from them, possibly to soften up foes for something else, and if everything's your foe- it doesn't matter who they choose to hit...

Agreed about the potential for far realm involvement. Also the utterly alien nature of the far realm might give them better ability to manipulate creatures as chaotic as the slaadi.

Maybe the far realm is attacking in an incomprehensible manner that is particularly affecting Limbo, stabilizing it. The Slaad can't survive the new conditions, and thus expand. The escaping slaad are reflexively impregnating anything they find, to ensure the maximum escape paths are covered by the species. Slaad move in every direction, making more.

That way you've got at least two waves of wacky adventure to deal with.

[Khatoblepas]

The slaadi are just as likely to go to the material plane and put on a musical as invading. They are just as likely to dress up like modrons and act lawful, trying to sneak into Mechanus before deciding it's better to try to pick every bit of plant life from the cogs.

They are just as likely to kill you as jump off a bridge as cross it as try to eat it as put on an elaborate marriage ceremony proclaiming it to be theirs.

They are chaos. If there is an invasion, there is just as much of a likelihood to be a counter-revolution made of slaadi as well.

Slaadi do not work in groups. It is like herding cats. Or chaos. Invasions and subjugation are lawful concepts. They require organisation, which slaadi lack. If anyone's going to invade anywhere, it's Modrons. Perhaps, due to chaos, the Slaadi have aligned against the material plane... but they don't know why, and they don't know how. Asking any slaadi will result in a random answer. They might not even attack some places, they might paint a town red. Slaadi invasions are bizarre and irrational. Seeing that Greyhawk has become infested with slaadi and chaos, the Modrons move in... and all ethical alignment breaks loose. The modrons don't want Greyhawk sliding into Limbo.

Perhaps someone who can control Limbo, shape it like clay has learnt how to shape a slaadi's mind in the same manner. But this requires order and dedication, like a Githzerai and their monastery made of primal chaos.

Any way you decide to go, if chaos decides to infest Greyhawk, Law is going to respond. Mechanus, and possibly Arcadia is going to get back at them - for the same reason that you don't see outsiders battling it out on material planes. It will just devolve into a huge philosophical battlefield. The players must find a way to drive back the slaadi, the modrons, and if they're not quick, the upper and lower planes as they all try to stop the influence of the other outsiders on Greyhawk.

Very Planescape, but hey, that's what you get when you include The Great Wheel into a campaign. Philosophy!

[Delwugor]

What a coincidence the campaign I started last night is an invasion of Oerth also. In my case the enemy is very cunning and have a strong strategy based on their biggest strength, their ability to infiltrate.
So they are starting in the city of Scant which is the capital of Onnwal because it is relatively weak from the GH wars and the current fighting against the Scarlet Brotherhood. Also it's location is strategically sound for an invasion that relies on infiltration. The dragonhead peninsula is easily defended from outside with only one land route in and the use of shipping the infiltration can spread quickly around the Azure sea and the Sea of Gernant.

[JonestheSpy]

JellyPooga: Why? Well, that's largely due to the descriptions I see of the various Slaad types. They're brutal, selfish and bullying, but not inclined to destruction in the same way demons are. I tried avoiding words like domineering and tyranical in desribing how they'd act. It's more like the childhood story "Where the Wild Things Are" -- sufficiently powerful mortals or other creatures would be able to push them around as well. Individual power is something they'd respect. Beings lacking this power would be playthings.

Really, there's a big problem with the entire way the slaad are concieved - they're just far more evil than neutral, and not even that chaotic. After all, they have a pretty strict heirarchy of power based on their color, don't they? And they reproduce/evolve by killing intelligent beings - really just as evil as the mind flayers that way.

Slaad actually belong more in Pandemonium or someplace like that - or if they have to be in Limbo, they seem much more like a race that just happens to live there like the Githzerai or the Formians in Mechanus. They're nothing like a true embodiment of chaos should be, unlike the Modrons, Fiends, or Celestials.

Let's face it, originally the Slaad were just another poorly concieved monster from the 1st edition Fiend Folio, which was a collection of random homebrewed creatures from the British RPG mag White Dwarf. I suspect they were kept around just because the game cosmology needed something from Limbo and no one bothered to come up with anything better.