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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    TelemontTanthul's Avatar

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    biggrin Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Okay, so I was just wondering if there were any Mystic Theurge-esque classes out there.

    Homebrewed or no, I am looking for something that might be like a Theurge, but not neccessarily just Divine and Arcane. Maybe like a dual arcane, or something.
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    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Well I like Races of the Wild's Arcane Hierophant prestige class which combines wizard and druid and combines your familiar and animal companion into one creature as well as advancing wild shape. I played one from 12-20 and he was pretty good although the party wasn't optimized and he used some DD (mostly Flame Strike sometimes maximized, although after 3-4 adventures I started to stop that although he usually kept one and it did come in handy on occasion, and Orb of Electricity which he never stopped maximizing) and a lot of self and familiar or animal specific buffs to make his familiar-companion really tough (it counts as a familiar, can be affected by spells that only target animals, and can share personal range spells). It actually did more damage/round than the rest of the party (like I said unoptimized party except the warlock who was nigh-unkillable) or at least it did when it pounced. Plus it was intelligent due to being a familiar and got feats like an animal companion. It was awesome.

    There's also Cerebromancer (psion-wizard), Ultimate Magus (sorcerer-wizard), and one or two in Tome of Magic if you're using it. As far as homebrew goes, I know I've seen one or two Artificer-Wizards on the site and have my own I've never posted, and I've seen a truenamer-wizard on the site (a day after I made my own... but the one here didn't have a familiar and I love familiars).
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    Godskook's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Non-homebrew, off the top of my head:

    Ultimate Magus - Arcane x2
    --Good with early entry, not so good without it.
    Arcane Heirophant - Arcane + Druid
    --A standard theurge worth playing...
    Jade Pheonix Mage - ToB + Arcane
    --A semi-popular gish choice
    Daggerspell Mage/Shaper - Rogue + (Druid or Arcane)
    --Basically, an Arcane caster who comes by his skillmonkey ways honestly

    Of course, there's other martial+caster prestige classes out there too, but I'm not sure that's what you're looking for.
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    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by TelemontTanthul View Post
    Okay, so I was just wondering if there were any Mystic Theurge-esque classes out there.

    Homebrewed or no, I am looking for something that might be like a Theurge, but not neccessarily just Divine and Arcane. Maybe like a dual arcane, or something.
    I see no problem with it. Just take the mystic theurge and remove the restriction that you need an arcane and a divine class. As far as I know, the mystic theurge only give you two spellcasting classes, so if you play the standard theurge and instead of having him wizard and cleric you make him cleric and druid, or wizard and sorceror, I don't see the problem
    In memory of Evisceratus: he dreamed of a better world, but he lacked the class levels to make the dream come true.

    Ridiculous monsters you won't take seriously even as they disembowel you

    my take on the highly skilled professional: the specialized expert

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    DragoonWraith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    There's the Cerebremancer in XPH that gives Arcane and Psionic, and my Homebrew version allows Arcane or Divine plus Psionic (and is generally better, if I do say so myself).

    Dual casters exist for pretty much ever new magic style that they've introduced:

    Eldritch Theurge is Warlock + Arcane, Eldritch Disciple is Warlock + Divine.
    Soulcaster is Incarnum + Arcane, Sapphire Hierarch is Incarnum + Divine.
    Anima Mage is Binding + Arcnae, Tenebrous Apostate is Binding + Divine.
    Noctumancer is Shadow Magic + Arcane, and Shadow Magic can count as Arcane or Divine for the purposes of Mystic Theurge and similar.
    Brimstone speaker is Truenaming + Divine, and Fiendbinder is Truenaming + any.
    Jade Phoenix Mage is Martial + Arcane.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    If you have not made up your mind yet, Mind Mage is extremely powerful.
    It is Manifester/Arcane.
    At tenth level in the PrC they get to add +10 to arcane and manifester casting (works like Practiced Spellcaster but without the restrictions) and they get both relative mods to both classes spell/manifester saves. IE if you are a Psion/Sorcerer you get Int AND Cha to the save DCs. If you are Wizard/Psion you get double Int to saves. It lasts for 24 hours and you can only use it 1/day. They work like Ultimate Magus for metamgics with both casting classes.

    They are pretty sick as far as casting goes if you allow psionics in the game. Otherwise, Ultimate Magus is nice.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    There's the Cerebremancer in XPH that gives Arcane and Psionic, and my Homebrew version allows Arcane or Divine plus Psionic (and is generally better, if I do say so myself).
    Not to rain on the parade, but one of the Mind's Eye articles had a Divine Cerebremancer. Basically, they switched the skill requirements around for Knowledge: Religion and called it a day.

    EDIT: Now, with 100% moar links: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b
    Last edited by Thrice Dead Cat; 2009-10-01 at 06:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    You could also use Mystic Theurge from the Pathfinder system. It is far better than the normal Mystic Theurge. You could easily substitute manifester in place of divine or arcane.

    But if you are considering Arcane/Manifester, there is no better class than Mind Mage (Dragon Mag #313 page 50)
    The psi-spell feats that are required to take it are powerful too. You loose two levels in both casting classes, but by 10th level you make up for it a lot (you gain +10 to caster level for both classes, making you loose none basically)

    It is based off of the 3.0 psionics handbook, so if you use the expanded book, some of its abilities do not work, you can either alter them so they work, or ignore it. The class is powerful enough that it will not matter much.

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    Otogi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Geomancer, which is like the Mystic Theurge, but it allows you to switch casting styles between spells (so arcane spells can be cast without spell failure), you gain new mystical powers based on animals and you can cast better in certain terrain. The only downside is that you need 6 ranks in Knowledge (nature) rather than (religion). And that's it.

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    Zaydos's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Divine
    Since the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a geomancer, the player must decide to which class to add each geomancer level for determining spells per day and spells known.
    Geomancer only progresses one class at a time though, as opposed to both like Theurge.

    PS: How do/can you format so that it actually says the book it's from with quote text?

    Edit: Thanks
    Last edited by Zaydos; 2009-10-01 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Thanks
    Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.

    Current Projects:

    Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2

    Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.

    Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)

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    Violet Octopus's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    PHP Code:
    [QUOTE=Book Title]Stuff from book[/QUOTE
    becomes
    Quote Originally Posted by Book Title
    Stuff from book
    I think this is how you do it.
    Someday I'll have my anxiety under control, but until then, I'm prone to sudden month-long disappearances.

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    DragoonWraith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Not to rain on the parade, but one of the Mind's Eye articles had a Divine Cerebremancer. Basically, they switched the skill requirements around for Knowledge: Religion and called it a day.

    EDIT: Now, with 100% moar links: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b
    Not sure that's raining on anyone's parade; it's a pretty obvious switch. My version is still more fun, IMO. You get in earlier, you get some class features, and you get play longer.

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Not sure that's raining on anyone's parade; it's a pretty obvious switch. My version is still more fun, IMO. You get in earlier, you get some class features, and you get play longer.
    Right, right. Actually having class abilities outside of spells is a good thing. It's reasons why UM and Arcane Heirophant get tossed around so much more than Mystic Theurge. Well, that and double 9s for Heirophant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    I have nothing short of a plethora of multiclass PrC's under my belt, simply check out my sig for my homebrew.
    My Deviantart, Please enjoy it.
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    Homebrew by Krimm Blackleaf


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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    I have nothing short of a plethora of multiclass PrC's under my belt, simply check out my sig for my homebrew.
    And you should check these out, even if you don't use them.

    That said, this might be decent to, although I'm not sure of the balance.

    Theurgic Practice
    Prerequisites: Practiced Spellcaster, Ability to cast 2nd level spells from 2 different classes.
    Benefit: When calculating your spells known and spells per day, treat your total caster level in each spellcasting class as the sum of all your caster levels in that class plus one half of your caster levels in all other casting classes. For example, a Cleric 4/Wizard 6 would cast spells as an 8th level Wizard (6+2) and a 7th level Cleric (4+3).

    Theurgic Metamagic
    Prerequisites: Practiced Spellcaster, Theurgic Practice, any 2 metamagic feats.
    Benefit: Once per round, by sacrificing a spell slot from one of your caster classes, you may, as a free action, apply a metamagic feat you know to a spell you cast from one of your other classes without increasing the casting time. The spell sacrificed must be of a level equal to or higher than the level adjustment of the metamagic feat applied. For example, a Cleric 4/Wizard 6 could sacrifice bless, a 1st level Cleric spell, to turn her 3rd level Wizard spell fireball into an empowered fireball. The new spell would still use up a 3rd level spell slot.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Mystic Theurge Alternatives

    Quote Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf View Post
    I have nothing short of a plethora of multiclass PrC's under my belt, simply check out my sig for my homebrew.
    Yup, I'm planning on going into Sortilegic Craftsman in a game, though that won't be for a long while, assuming I even get in...

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