[3.5] Favored Soul // Sorcerer Gestalt

[Zovc]

I want to see what we can do. We'll use our Charisma to synergize with as much as possible.

House rules for gestalting: Dual progression is allowed--but you may not advance your caster advancement in a given class more than once/level. You do not "gain" excess caster advancement, one is lost if you gain two at one level (I.E. does not work like practiced caster). You may take two prestige classes at once.

Do your worst (best?).

I'm assuming Favored Soul 3 // Sorceror 3 into Mystic Theurge X // Paladin 2 is a basic start.

Aiming for epic casting at level 21 while still having a lot of charisma synergies.

[JellyPooga]

Does it specifically have to be a Favoured Soul//Sorcerer gestalt or are you just looking for Charisma synergy?

For example, a Spirit Shaman//Bard would have a lot of Charisma synergy and have much better skill points (though not as good Arcane casting, admittedly). The biggest problem with Favoured Soul//Sorcerer is that aside from getting Cha synergy on Dual-Spellcasting, you're not getting a lot else. You're still only on 2+Int mod skill points per level, 3/4 BAB (not a huge disapointment, but it could be better), d8 HD (similarly) and worst of all you have practically no class features worth writing home about. Warmage or Dread Necromancer, despite having limited spell lists, both rely on Charisma for their spellcasting and will net you some class features. Hexblade is only a partial spellcaster, but it does get you d10 HD and full BAB as well as Mettle and Arcane Resistance.

I'm not sure of the requirements of Epic spellcasting, so I can't comment on how to get there, but my instincts are telling me that going straight for Mystic Theurge is probably a bad idea. There are better dual-progression PrCs out there (i.e. ones that give you class features other than spellcasting), such as Arcane Heirophant or True Necromancer (which becomes more than viable if allowed in Gestalt).

If PrCs are allowed on both sides of your progression then Geomancer becomes an amazing class to take as a dual caster...it effectively makes your casting SAD (largely speaking) regardless of what actual spellcasting classes you have. Druid//Sorcerer using Cha for all your DCs, for example. Combine Druid, Sorcerer, Geomancer and Arcane Heirophant and you have the makings of something scary, without putting any actual effort into the build.

Another option to look at would be cheesing "fast-track" spellcasting like Ur-Priest or Sublime Chord using Dual-Progression PrCs...though I don't know how cheesariffic you want this build. A Bard/Sublime Chord//Favoured Soul/Mystic Theurge would be advancing all three spellcasting progressions (Bard, SC and FS) for the last 10 levels of you build, ending up with full Caster level in all three.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll assume you mean a progression that takes Mystic Theurge along side Fighter will advance both spellcasting classes, but taking Mystic Theurge along side Sorcerer won't grant +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting each level.

Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer Loredrake with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage is a good start, that gets +3 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting above your character level. Sorcerer 3// Favored Soul 3; Paladin (of Tyranny/Slaughter) 2/ Cobra-Strike Monk 2// Mystic Theurge 4; Mystic Wanderer 1/ Divine Oracle 4// Abjurant Champion 5; Arcane Duelist 3// Mystic Theurge +3; Sacred Exorcist 1/ Incantatrix 4// Contemplative 5

1. Sorcerer 1// Favored Soul 1
2. Sorcerer 2// Favored Soul 2
3. Sorcerer 3// Favored Soul 3
4. Mystic Theurge 1// Cobra-Strike Monk 1
5. Mystic Theurge 2// Cobra-Strike Monk 2
6. Mystic Theurge 3// Paladin (of Tyranny) 1, Ascetic Mage
7. Mystic Theurge 4// Paladin (of Tyranny) 2
8. Mystic Wanderer 1// Abjurant Champion 1
9. Divine Oracle 1// Abjurant Champion 2
10. Divine Oracle 2// Abjurant Champion 3
11. Divine Oracle 3// Abjurant Champion 4
12. Divine Oracle 4// Abjurant Champion 5
13. Mystic Theurge 5// Arcane Duelist 1
14. Mystic Theurge 6// Arcane Duelist 2
15. Mystic Theurge 7// Arcane Duelist 3
16. Sacred Exorcist 1// Contemplative 1
17. Incantatrix 1// Contemplative 2
18. Incantatrix 2// Contemplative 3
19. Incantatrix 3// Contemplative 4
20. Incantatrix 4// Contemplative 5

20th level Favored Soul spellcasting, 23rd level Sorcerer spellcasting, Cha to saves (Paladin), Cha to AC (Monk, Ascetic Mage), Cha to AC (Dodge, Arcane Duelist), Cha to AC (Sacred/Profane, Mystic Wanderer), Shield spell grants +9 AC, Greater Luminous Armor grants +13 AC. You have Dexterous Attack from Arcane Duelist, which interacts particularly well with two-handed Power Attack, and can also take Divine Might to add Cha to melee damage. You have access to both Metamagic Effect: Persistent Spell and DMM: Persistent. You can keep Arcane Spellsurge going all day and can get the Destiny domain via Contemplative for Persistent Choose Destiny.

[Zovc]

Does it specifically have to be a Favoured Soul//Sorcerer gestalt or are you just looking for Charisma synergy?

It does not have to be a Favored Soul//Sorceror, but I would like full casting with arcane and divine.

I'll assume you mean a progression that takes Mystic Theurge along side Fighter will advance both spellcasting classes, but taking Mystic Theurge along side Sorcerer won't grant +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting each level.

Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer Loredrake with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage is a good start, that gets +3 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting above your character level.

Yes, that's the idea, I tried to make that clear in the first post. A Sorceror//Mystic Theurge will advance their casting by one step, if they take Fighter//Rogue next level, they won't get the advancement they lost.

I'm not even sure where "Dragonwrought Kobold Sorceror Loredrake with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage" comes from, but I don't like the sound of it. Does your build crumple if we remove that race? What about using a Paladin of any other alignment?

Of the classes you used, I recognize Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Mystic Theurge, Paladin of Tyrany, Arcane Duelist, and Cobra Strike Monk (although I don't know why you chose that monk specifically). What do the other ones do?

[Douglas]

Sorcerer 3//Favored Soul 3 does not qualify for Mystic Theurge. You need 2nd level spells, and neither of these two base classes get that until level 4.

[Zovc]

Ffffffff...! You're right.

>.>

[JellyPooga]

It does not have to be a Favored Soul//Sorceror, but I would like full casting with arcane and divine.

O.K. then, that gives us a few options. Are you particularly averse to a Necromancer build? I'm a bit of a fan of them myself, so here's one I (kind of ) prepared earlier...

{table]Level|Class 1|Class 2
1|Dread Necromancer|Cloistered Cleric
2|Dread Necromancer|Cloistered Cleric
3|Dread Necromancer|Cloistered Cleric
4|Dread Necromancer|Cloistered Cleric
5|Dread Necromancer|Cloistered Cleric
6|True Necromancer|Geomancer
7|True Necromancer|Dread Necromancer
8|True Necromancer|Hexblade
9|True Necromancer|Hexblade
10|True Necromancer|Hexblade
11|True Necromancer|Geomancer
12|True Necromancer|Dread Necromancer
13|True Necromancer|Geomancer
14|True Necromancer|Geomancer
15|True Necromancer|Geomancer
16|True Necromancer|Geomancer
17|True Necromancer|Geomancer
18|True Necromancer|Geomancer
19|Dread Necromancer|Geomancer
20|Dread Necromancer|Geomancer[/table]

That should give you Level 20 Dread Necromancer, Level 20 Cleric and (as incidental as it is) Level 9 Hexblade casting.

9 levels in Dread Necromancer gives you a host of abilities, most important of which (to my mind) is being able to control (your Charisma mod)x(your HD) more undead over anyone else.

Cloistered Cleric gives you a few extra skill points at early levels and grants Knowledge (nature) as a class skill (to qualify for Geomancer).

Geomancer means that you can use Charisma to set the save DCs for all your spells and don't suffer from Arcane Spell Failure for any spells. You'll also have an array of nature-themed Ex abilities and a CL boost in certain terrain.

True Necromancer is, normally speaking, a terrible class to take. It's abilities just just compare to straight class Cleric or Wizard when it comes to Necromancy. However, in Gestalt like this, it shines brighter than the sun. Full Rebuke Undead progression, a bunch of Spell-Like abilities and +4 to your CL when casting Necromancy spells. Sweet.

Hexblade gives you a little BAB and HP boost, but more importantly grants Mettle and Arcane Resistance. The little extra spellcasting isn't much, but you never know (and it's some spellcasting to advance with Geomancer rather than wasting the progression!). If you don't want the XP penalty from Hexblade, I would take those 3 levels, plus the 9th level of Dread Necromancer and replace it with a level of something like Pious Templar (or any other PrC you can qualify for that has it's own Casting progression), a level of Mystic Theurge and 2 of Pale Master.

[Glimbur]

The concern I would have with recommending Dread Necro//Cloistered Cleric is that you have two casting stats, while something like Wizard//Archivist has only one and Favored Soul//Sorcerer has about 1.5.

[JellyPooga]

The concern I would have with recommending Dread Necro//Cloistered Cleric is that you have two casting stats, while something like Wizard//Archivist has only one and Favored Soul//Sorcerer has about 1.5.

Although that is true on your early levels, Geomancer negates that with it Spell Versatility class feature. Admittedly you'll still need 19 Wisdom to prepare your spells, but that's only a 13 base score if you have a +6 enhancement item. By level 20 you're as dependant on Wisdom as if you took Favoured Soul anyway, plus it gives you 3 Domains (one of which allows you to qualify quickly for True Necromancer...which is the crux of the build. As far as I know, the earliest you can get a Domain without taking Cleric is at level 7 and that only if you have full BAB, by going Divine Crusader.)