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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    oxinabox's Avatar

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    Default Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Craft is one skill in nWod/storyteller.
    This means, lets say my charter can build his own computer from sratch, so thats at least 2 dots in craft, maybe a specialty in craft computer.
    So that means he gets 2 + 1 for craft computer rolls to say replace the Motherboard.
    However those 2 craft dots are also aplicable to say craft Clothing rolls to modif a suit.
    He's never picked up a needly in his life.

    there are basically two mays opf doing this:
    1, put dot's in craft and not use them except for releivent things
    2, don't put dots in craft unless your all round crafty, and ask for circumstance bonus for particular area's.


    My solution: this sin't perfect but it's a start:
    Craft poll is devided up into two parts: General craftyness and specific areas:
    there are up to 2 dots in General craftyness, EXP cost as skills.
    and then there are up to 3* dots in specific areas, EXP cost as skill specialeties...
    At Chart gen Dots of skills can be directly sold as per the EXP table to buy the specific area's
    If you have not dots in a the specific area you want to use; then you may still use them, but you take a -1 penatily.

    For example John the Capernter is a generally handy kinda guy.
    Know the basics of a lot of crafts:
    He has 2 dots in Craft General and 2 in Craft carpenter. and and INT of 2.
    to make a Shed he Rolls Craft general + Craft carpenter + INT (IIIRC) = 2+2+2=6

    But now he wants to connect up the mains power. couple of wires it can't be too hard right?
    So he has no dot's on Craft electrician so hge take s -1 penaty on his craft roll
    he rolls Craft genral -1 +int=2-1+2=3

    the story teller may also get him to roll Wits, to make sure he doens't electrocute himself (i would suggest 1 success being surficent)


    * or 4? and ban skill specialisation for crafts

    It's not an elegant fix and spoils some of the sytems symplicity.
    what's other peoples ideas?
    There is nothing on earth that we share; it is either Valjean or Javert!

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    I would consider electronic crafting a part of the security skill, instead.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Actually Craft is described as being a gerneral ability to create stuff. What you can make depends on what Attribute you combine it with, and combining other skills as well. Specifics is covered by specializing.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    The Rose Dragon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    I believe this is how it worked in Storyteller: you had to specialize in a field of Craft. So you couldn't create a sculpture if you knew how to sew.

    nWoD, incidentally, is Storytelling, not Storyteller.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Personally, I'd assume that building and maintaining computers would, funnily enough, come under Computer.

    That is, after all, how and why most people in the real world learn it. If he's particularly good, maybe it would be 2 dots in Computer, and a specialisation in (building them).

    As for craft being a general use thing, eh. I can't see it being a big problem. If you don't want your players being able to build anything at all reguardless of background, just enforce common sense limits to what they can try.

    Otherwise, I'd see craft as being specifically more like case 2. It looks like it is supposed to be that 'general handyman' type of thing.

    The way my own storyteller explained Drive to me, for example, is that you do not need dots in it to get home each evening. Drive is for stunt-driving, and so on. You only need dots if you are going to need to roll, and you are only going to have to roll if it's relavent for there to be a chance of failure.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Personally, I'd assume that building and maintaining computers would, funnily enough, come under Computer.
    Nup, it's explictily under craft.
    Maintaining maybe under computer, but building is under craft, like blacksmithing.
    There is nothing on earth that we share; it is either Valjean or Javert!

    "A wizard can in fact be thought of the custodian to a familiar, a terrifying beast that charges its foes, slashing them to shreds while delivering their master's touch spells and bestowing upon their masters incredible bonuses to their hp or skill checks. A wizard is nearly powerless without one."

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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    I've always been weirded out by the Craft thing myself, but I've always worked it one of two ways:

    1. Ask the player where, precisely, his character learned how to craft like that. If their answer doesn't satisfy me, I go ahead and inflict the untrained (that is, -3) penalty on their roll.

    2. Just RP the capability, or lack thereof, of characters to make something or not.


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  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    1. Ask the player where, precisely, his character learned how to craft like that. If their answer doesn't satisfy me, I go ahead and inflict the untrained (that is, -3) penalty on their roll.
    That's sort of pointless. There's a college course for everything these days.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    And if the character never went to college in their backstory? If they grew up in the middle of nowhere? Or (my favorite) if it's an Innocents game? It works out better than one might think at first glance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    1. Ask the player where, precisely, his character learned how to craft like that. If their answer doesn't satisfy me, I go ahead and inflict the untrained (that is, -3) penalty on their roll.

    2. Just RP the capability, or lack thereof, of characters to make something or not.
    This is really the best idea, short of having a complex system of sub-dots in the Craft skill to apply to anything and everything that might qualify. Perhaps 1 dot represents 1 skill, 2 dots net 2, 3 dots net 4, 4 dots net 8, and 5 dots net 16 areas of expertise? I don't like what I just suggested, but if you're opposed to Gareth's idea for some reason, it's the best I can come up with.

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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Glyde's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    As has been said, craft is general... craftiness. If they decide to replace a car part but they're a basketweaver or computer-wiz, I, as the storyteller, am allowed to give them a penalty. Which I probably would in that situation.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    As it's already been said: Skill Specialties. There's a difference between Attribute+Skill+Specialty Bonus and Attribute+Skill.

    Think of it like a doctor. A doctor with an Intelligence of 3 and a Medicine Skill of 3 has a dice pool of 6, barring any external modifiers. A doctor with 3 Intelligence and a Medicine of 2, but who has a Specialty in, say, Diagnosis has a dice pool of 5, normally, but one of 6 when performing a diagnosis.

    Yes, the dice pool is only equal to the first in a specific situation, but that's not the point. The point is that the second doctor knows more about diagnosing illnesses and injuries than the first, who's along the lines of a general practicioner. This is reflected by the use of Skill Specialties.

    But, here's my point. We'll increase both doctor's Attributes and Skills to the normal human limit: 5 Intelligence and 5 Medicine. Now their dice pool is 10, barring other modifiers. But that first doctor still does not have a Diagnosis specialty. He might be the greatest General Practicioner in the world, but the second will always know more about diagnosis than him.

    In other words, specialization will always win out over general knowledge.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyMattress View Post
    In other words, specialization will always win out over general knowledge.
    First, that doesn't work so well statistically; and second, the problem is that this doctor is good at everything, from fysiotherapy to brain surgery, and docters IRL aren't.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Exalted has a differentiated Craft skill, and it's a headache to deal with. It's an abstraction, in the same way that Computer works equally well for all kinds of computers, or Athletics for all kinds of sports, or Weaponry works for all kinds of weapons. Better to put up with the occasional thing like that than go into excessive simulationism that gets in the way of character creation.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    The existing rules aren't hideously unrealistic - I think I'd agree with Lord Gareth's fix here.

    While there are a lot of different things one might make, a lot of techniques apply to a lot of different things - soldering, for example, has applications in both electronics and jewellery, and a lot of different things can be machined using a lathe.

    You could refine it into maybe four or five categories if you have a real problem with it - it doesn't really need to be subdivided further, however.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2009-10-03 at 02:18 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    My solution is mirrored after what was done with piloting aircraft and using archery, and is echoed by several others. For Craft (and any given application which is far beyond typical use of a Skill), I ask everyone to state their area of expertise. Craft 2 becomes Craft Electrician 2. You can then specialize, spending the standard points and getting a +1 to that field as well. Any time you want to do something out of your area, like sculpt, you get a -2 penalty to your normal rating.

    If you want an additional area of expertise, spend a specialization on it to widen your ability, removing the penalty, rather than gaining the +1 bonus. You can use a second specialization to get your actual bonus.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fixining nWod/Storyteller Craft system

    Quote Originally Posted by Clementx View Post
    My solution is mirrored after what was done with piloting aircraft and using archery, and is echoed by several others. For Craft (and any given application which is far beyond typical use of a Skill), I ask everyone to state their area of expertise. Craft 2 becomes Craft Electrician 2. You can then specialize, spending the standard points and getting a +1 to that field as well. Any time you want to do something out of your area, like sculpt, you get a -2 penalty to your normal rating.

    If you want an additional area of expertise, spend a specialization on it to widen your ability, removing the penalty, rather than gaining the +1 bonus. You can use a second specialization to get your actual bonus.
    Seconded. I find that this is a very simple fix, is not experience-intensive for people who want to be heavily focused on Crafts, and prevents weird situations where people are good at everything.
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