First time playing an artificer

[Boci]

Title pretty much says it all. We are starting at level 1 and I'm a human. I have some questions:

1. What feats should I take for level 1 and human? My DM ruled that I get scribe scroll last so I cannot use it to meet the preqs for these feats.

2. Is there any easy way an artificer can make effigies or do I need my DM to houserule something?

[I_Got_This_Name]

Skill Focus: Use Magic Device is decent for Artificers. So's Improved Initiative.

[Boci]

Skill Focus: Use Magic Device is decent for Artificers.

At first level, true. But wouldn't I want to retrain it eventually (maybe around level 13 when I can take a 10)? What should I retrain it for?

So's Improved Initiative.

Interesting...I'd forgotten about this one.

[crazedloon]

point blank shot is not too horrible as it will be useful with the many attack based wands you will have.

[Boci]

point blank shot is not too horrible as it will be useful with the many attack based wands you will have.

Sorry, forgot to mention. I have only 11 dex. I wanted to take double wand wielder but I couldn't for the same reason. I have 15 char, 16 int, 12 wis, 10 con and 7 strength.

[Eldariel]

Metamagic. Especially Persistent Spell (and the prerequisite Extend Spell) to use with the Metamagic Item-infusion and Eternal Wands. Also, blast metamagic can be good. And no Artificer is complete without Extraordinary Artisan/Legendary Artisan; they fuel exactly what you want to be doing.

Also, you can get epic feat at any point in Extra Rings; keep that in the back of your head for when you have a free bonus feat. Craft Construct can be great given it's the one Craft you don't get by default (and some Golems and Effigies can be pretty brutal, especially if you can mitigate enough of the cost), and Wand Mastery should be picked up at some point if you plan on combat-using Wands.


Finally, Skill Focus: UMD and Item Familiar are both pretty fitting and can be used to hit the UMD DCs early on. Much depends on exactly what you plan on doing though; melee Artificer, wand Artificer, buffer Artificer and archer Artificer all have different feat choices obviously.

[Bayar]

Extraordinary artisan. Normally, you pay half the base price in gold. With this feat, you get a 25 % discount on your base item price.

So now, instead of paying 1/2 of base item cost to craft a magical thing, you pay 3/8 base price. And for non-magical things, you pay 1/4 instead of 1/3 base gold.

Also, it depends on what kind of artificier you want.

Blasters go with metamagics, buffers go with persistent (but others enjoy it too), hordificiers go with Craft Construct and improved homonculus, Meleeficiers are basically buffificiers (but you might want that feat that is basically weapon focus and 1/2 weapon specialisation for any magical weapon you wield, plus some good phisical stats, lower CHA score since you wont be making a lot of UMD checks in combat), archeficiers usually being elfs (coupled with Outherworldly feat to turn yourself into an arrow deamon at level 8 and wield 2 bows at the same time, plus the always good point blank shot and precise shot - which you probably going to take if you would be a blastificier too)...

Oh, and look at the other artificier feats in the Eberron books...

[Boci]

Metamagic. Especially Persistent Spell (and the prerequisite Extend Spell) to use with the Metamagic Item-infusion and Eternal Wands. Also, blast metamagic can be good.

I hadn't considered this due to the artificers ability to add metagmagic by increasing the UMD check, but it bears consideration.

And no Artificer is complete without Extraordinary Artisan/Legendary Artisan; they fuel exactly what you want to be doing.

Obviously, but I cannot take them until levels 3,4 and 6. I think I'll take them in gold, XP and time.

Also, you can get epic feat at any point in Extra Rings; keep that in the back of your head for when you have a free bonus feat.

I think my DM might veto that, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

Craft Construct can be great given it's the one Craft you don't get by default (and some Golems and Effigies can be pretty brutal, especially if you can mitigate enough of the cost),

So I cannot take a dip into the effigy master/ Or is that just not recommended? Also, will the Extraordinary Artisan/Legendary Artisan series help me make them?

and Wand Mastery should be picked up at some point if you plan on combat-using Wands.

Just checked it on crystal keep. This one seems a no brainer. Thanks for pointing it out.

Finally, Skill Focus: UMD and Item Familiar are both pretty fitting and can be used to hit the UMD DCs early on.

Not too sure about item familiar but I will take skill focus: UMD and then maybe retrain it latter.

Much depends on exactly what you plan on doing though; melee Artificer, wand Artificer, buffer Artificer and archer Artificer all have different feat choices obviously.

I think I am going to be a wandificer. Of course it eould help if I could take double wand wielder, but I will have to live without that. There is a cleric with the magic domain in the party by the way.

[Boci]

Extraordinary artisan. Normally, you pay half the base price in gold. With this feat, you get a 25 % discount on your base item price.

So now, instead of paying 1/2 of base item cost to craft a magical thing, you pay 3/8 base price. And for non-magical things, you pay 1/4 instead of 1/3 base gold.

Cannot take it at level 1.

Also, it depends on what kind of artificier you want.

Blasters go with metamagics, buffers go with persistent (but others enjoy it too), hordificiers go with Craft Construct and improved homonculus, Meleeficiers are basically buffificiers (but you might want that feat that is basically weapon focus and 1/2 weapon specialisation for any magical weapon you wield, plus some good phisical stats, lower CHA score since you wont be making a lot of UMD checks in combat), archeficiers usually being elfs (coupled with Outherworldly feat to turn yourself into an arrow deamon at level 8 and wield 2 bows at the same time, plus the always good point blank shot and precise shot - which you probably going to take if you would be a blastificier too)...

Oh, and look at the other artificier feats in the Eberron books...

I think I will focus on wands.

[Bayar]

Cannot take it at level 1.

Why not ? It only requires one item creation feat.

Oh wait, your DM is being a poopie head and giving you Scribe Scroll last so it wont qualify for feats and what-not. Here is what you do:

Take Skill Focus (UMD). Buy a custom masterwork UMD tool (Tobin's guide to common magics is my favorite ), retrain Skill focus to Extraordinary artisan at second level.

Remember, you will be able to craft wondrous items at level 3, so why dont you craft yourself a magic item that goes into a body slot (my favorite: goggles) that gives you +5 to your UMD checks for 2500 GP ? You also get a +2 to UMD checks to activate an item that you have the feat required to craft it and another +2 to UMD to activate it if you activated it before. Skill focus is only good for level 1.

[Boci]

Why not ? It only requires one item creation feat.

Oh wait, your DM is being a poopie head and giving you Scribe Scroll last so it wont qualify for feats and what-not. Here is what you do:

Take Skill Focus (UMD). Buy a custom masterwork UMD tool (Tobin's guide to common magics is my favorite ), retrain Skill focus to Extraordinary artisan at second level.

Not wanting to be a pessimist, but I think my DM will have a problem with this.

1. There is no official mundane +2 UMD.
2. He may argue I can only retrain feats for which I met the preqs at that level.

He may not, and I will ask him, but my guess would be he'd have a problem with both. ultimatly, I do not mind. I mean half the party are core melee with none of the decent splat book options, so I'm still going to be a valuable contribution.

Remember, you will be able to craft wondrous items at level 3, so why dont you craft yourself a magic item that goes into a body slot (my favorite: goggles) that gives you +5 to your UMD checks for 2500 GP ? You also get a +2 to UMD checks to activate an item that you have the feat required to craft it and another +2 to UMD to activate it if you activated it before. Skill focus is only good for level 1.

Okay, thanks.

[Bayar]

Not wanting to be a pessimist, but I think my DM will have a problem with this.

1. There is no official mundane +2 UMD.
2. He may argue I can only retrain feats for which I met the preqs at that level.

He may not, and I will ask him, but my guess would be he'd have a problem with both. ultimatly, I do not mind. I mean half the party are core melee with none of the decent splat book options, so I'm still going to be a valuable contribution.



Okay, thanks.

Then your DM is a jerk. You would do best to talk to him, telling him that there is no reason to gimp your character just because the other dont use spalt books. And you do qualify for the feat because you get it at level 1. When you start the game, you will have Scribe Scroll. So you would qualify for the feat.

Honestly, sounds like your DM is trying to screw you over.

[Eldariel]

You should definitely get Eberron Campaign Settings.

I hadn't considered this due to the artificers ability to add metagmagic by increasing the UMD check, but it bears consideration.

Metamagic is incredible for Artificer. You get:
- Metamagic Spell Trigger: Burn extra charges to get metamagicked effects. Very powerful for offensive Wandifying. Empower Spell, Twin Spell, Split Ray, Energy Admixture and company are the best for this.
- Metamagic Spell Completion: Freely apply Metamagic (with an UMD check) on scrolls and such. Anything is great with this given you can make the UMD checks.
- Metamagic Item: This infusion enables freely adding any metamagic feat on any spell completion item. It's level 3 so it's some time away, but it's an absolutely incredible Infusion in combination with Persistent Spell.


Get some. Hell, get all if you can.

I think my DM might veto that, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

It's one of your bonus feats as an Artificer. That's the whole point.

So I cannot take a dip into the effigy master/ Or is that just not recommended? Also, will the Extraordinary Artisan/Legendary Artisan series help me make them?

Artisan-feats work fine. That's why Craft Construct is really any good in the first place. Also, Effigy Master would technically work, but Artificer gets too much to really make it worth giving up progression. Particularly Craft Reserve is superb; with the amount of crafting you do, the XP costs could get a bit prohibite.

Not too sure about item familiar but I will take skill focus: UMD and then maybe retrain it latter.

Sounds good.

[Sinfire Titan]

Are you prepared to invest hours of your day into figuring out how to eek every single copper out of your WBL allotment? The Artificer isn't exactly a simple class to play. Around CO, we all agree that it is the most complex class to actually play, much less build properly. Whereas a normal Full Caster may take 3 hours or so to build, Artificers can easily take upwards of 7, even 10 hours just to get everything put together for game play. Leveling up also takes a lot more time than normal classes.


Just want to check. I'm not against Artificers, I'm just letting you know that preparation is going to take a hell of a lot of time.

[Boci]

Are you prepared to invest hours of your day into figuring out how to eek every single copper out of your WBL allotment? The Artificer isn't exactly a simple class to play. Around CO, we all agree that it is the most complex class to actually play, much less build properly. Whereas a normal Full Caster may take 3 hours or so to build, Artificers can easily take upwards of 7, even 10 hours just to get everything put together for game play. Leveling up also takes a lot more time than normal classes.


Just want to check. I'm not against Artificers, I'm just letting you know that preparation is going to take a hell of a lot of time.

I am playing with people who believe a fighter wielding a spiked chain is the pinnacle of optimization. I expect to make some mistakes (hopefully not too many), but hopefully I will learn from them, and I seriously doubt it will make me a hinderance to the party.

Thanks for the warning. If I was playing with optimizers and powergamers I wouldn't touch the class. But as it is, I'm sure I'll be fine.

[Bayar]

I am playing with people who believe a fighter wielding a spiked chain is the pinnacle of optimization. I expect to make some mistakes (hopefully not too many), but hopefully I will learn from them, and I seriously doubt it will make me a hinderance to the party.

Thanks for the warning. If I was playing with optimizers and powergamers I wouldn't touch the class. But as it is, I'm sure I'll be fine.

Fighter with spiked chain is the pinnacle of FIGHTER optimisation. Since they can go Chain gun tripper.

[Guinea Anubis]

I found my old human blastificer that I made. here is what I did.

1. Artificer: Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Disable Trap, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll, Legendary Artisan , Empower Spell
2. Artificer: Brew Potion
3. Artificer: Craft Wondrous Item, Energy Substitution (Sonic)
4. Artificer: Craft Homonculus, Extraordinary Artisan
5. Artificer: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Retain Essence
6. Artificer: Metamagic Spell Trigger, Twin Spell
7. Artificer: Craft Wand
8. Artificer: Wand Mastery
9. Artificer: Craft Rod, Energy Admixture (Sonic)
10. Artificer:
11. Artificer: Metamagic Spell Completion
12. Artificer: Craft Staff, Exceptional Artisan, Quicken Spell
13. Artificer: Skill Mastery
14. Artificer: Forge Ring
15. Artificer: Extra Rings, Two Weapon Fighting
16. Artificer:
17. Artificer:
18. Artificer: Double Wand Wielder
19. Artificer :
20. Artificer : Craft Construct

[Sinfire Titan]

I am playing with people who believe a fighter wielding a spiked chain is the pinnacle of optimization. I expect to make some mistakes (hopefully not too many), but hopefully I will learn from them, and I seriously doubt it will make me a hinderance to the party.

Thanks for the warning. If I was playing with optimizers and powergamers I wouldn't touch the class. But as it is, I'm sure I'll be fine.

...It may be a bit much then. Artificers are regarded as being in the upper-echelon of optimization, despite their weakness to Dispel Magic and company. It may scare them a bit too much.


Well, actually, it may be a good idea to do so. A Chain Tripper is only Tier 4 or 5. Scaring them away from Tiers 1 and 2 may make them see how balanced Tier 3 is.

[Teron]

An inexpertly played artificer isn't going to perform anything like a "proper" tier 1 character, though. And handing out extra gear to the other PCs should both keep them happy and shore up their ability to handle appropriate encounters.

[Boci]

...It may be a bit much then. Artificers are regarded as being in the upper-echelon of optimization, despite their weakness to Dispel Magic and company. It may scare them a bit too much.

Well, actually, it may be a good idea to do so. A Chain Tripper is only Tier 4 or 5. Scaring them away from Tiers 1 and 2 may make them see how balanced Tier 3 is.

Its worse than that. They aren't playing a chain tripper because they think its too much. I had a copy of ToB on me and recomended they use it but no one listened to me. At every game I'm going to leave the book on the table. And every time something bad happens to them I'll point out a manouver that could help them.

An inexpertly played artificer isn't going to perform anything like a "proper" tier 1 character, though. And handing out extra gear to the other PCs should both keep them happy and shore up their ability to handle appropriate encounters.

True, but even if I just make scrolls that do not rely on caster level or save (ray of exhasution at level 3?) As for making gear, I'll probably do it a bit, but not until latter. I am certainly not wasting money on potions.

Okay, one more question. It takes 1 day per 1000gp of an items price. So I can make a 1st level scroll in what, half an hour?

[Teron]

It always takes at least a day to craft an item, but you can put multiple spells on one scroll to make more efficient use of your crafting time.

[Boci]

Well that was a really good first session. Dm told me I could role an artificer but didn't feel it neccisary to mention that we would have no down time. And no, I couldn't just assume I had been crafting beofre the story began and dock it off my starting gold and craft reserve.

[shadow_archmagi]

Out of curiosity, is there anywhere I can find a good hordificer/blastificer/meleeficer/etcificer guide, with specific tips for each archetype?

[shadow_archmagi]

Okay, one more question. It takes 1 day per 1000gp of an items price. So I can make a 1st level scroll in what, half an hour?

Most DMs I've met will be fine with this, but the rules techincally state "minimum 8 hours"

[Bayar]

Well that was a really good first session. Dm told me I could role an artificer but didn't feel it neccisary to mention that we would have no down time. And no, I couldn't just assume I had been crafting beofre the story began and dock it off my starting gold and craft reserve.

Do you know of any other DM in the area ? Because that was the reason I played a druid in my gaming group. No need for downtime or preparation or loot or gear or gold or splatbooks or PrC or anything. Yeah, my RL gaming group is ****ing lame.

Out of curiosity, is there anywhere I can find a good hordificer/blastificer/meleeficer/etcificer guide, with specific tips for each archetype?

Google Unoficial Artificier guide 3.0 (that is the guide version, not D&D edition BTW). It has a LOT of stuff for artificiers, including fluff stuff.

[Boci]

Do you know of any other DM in the area ? Because that was the reason I played a druid in my gaming group. No need for downtime or preparation or loot or gear or gold or splatbooks or PrC or anything. Yeah, my RL gaming group is ****ing lame.

I do not think I'll switch groups just yet. I may ask if I can reroll. The DM seems against allowing a factotum, but I will try and convince him otherwise.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Stop trying to get these supplemental classes approved. Play something in core. Maybe even a druid. With luck, the fallout from your tier 1 class will loosen them up.

[Boci]

Stop trying to get these supplemental classes approved. Play something in core. Maybe even a druid. With luck, the fallout from your tier 1 class will loosen them up.

I don't want to play a level tier 1 class, aside from maybe the artificer (which isn't tier 1 when I play it), and core melee sucks. So why shouldn't I try to get the factotum aproved.

[Sinfire Titan]

Google Unoficial Artificier guide 3.0 (that is the guide version, not D&D edition BTW). It has a LOT of stuff for artificiers, including fluff stuff.

It's currently being transfered to BG right now. The Gleemax one may not be very legible.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Well, I suppose you could try. But I'm just really doubtful it will work, and if you shine too much in your group, you might get a reputation for being that guy that tries to bring in overpowered stuff from splatbooks. I don't know your group, so these assumptions might be wrong; but on the other hand you can easily just ignore my advice if it's incorrect.