Once a Class Skill, Always a Class Skill?

[starwoof]

Me and a friend were having an argument the other day about how exactly class skills work. His argument was that if you took a level in sorceror and then a level in fighter, you would buy spellcraft ranks with your fighter skill points at 2 points for one rank. My argument was the opposite; when its a class skill for any of your classes, its a class skill for you.

Neither of us can seem to find anything that proves it one way or the other.

Which of us is correct?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

He is correct.

[starwoof]

Lame.


However, my other group plays the wrong way and we like it. So I'm not too miffed.

[Keld Denar]

He is correct with respect to buying ranks. You are correct with respect to max ranks allowed. Once a skill is a class skill for any class you have, the max ranks you can have in that skill is 3 + level. You can only buy ranks 1:1 in skills that are class skills for the class you are taking right now.

Thus, it is possible for a Sorcerer1/Fighter1 to have 5 ranks in Spellcraft, but that 5th rank will cost him 2 skill points, instead of the 1 it would have cost if he had taken a 2nd level of Sorcerer instead.

[Vangor]

He is correct with respect to buying ranks. You are correct with respect to max ranks allowed. Once a skill is a class skill for any class you have, the max ranks you can have in that skill is 3 + level. You can only buy ranks 1:1 in skills that are class skills for the class you are taking right now.

Do you have a source for this? We have always played simply once a class skill always a class skill for the sake of simplicity, and I have known this is not accurate, but this seems a useful way to allow a few more options.

[Rixx]

SOLUTION: Pathfinder.

Your max ranks in a skill is your character level. If you're trained in a skill and it's a class skill for any of your classes, you get a flat +3 bonus to that skill.

No cross-class double cost nonsense and max ranks for cross class skills and what

[PId6]

Do you have a source for this? We have always played simply once a class skill always a class skill for the sake of simplicity, and I have known this is not accurate, but this seems a useful way to allow a few more options.

Here it mentions under skills that a multiclass character's max ranks for a skill is level+3 if any of his classes has it as a class skill. It doesn't mention anything about skills being permanently class skills, hence the normal rule applies: if it's not a class skill for the class, you must spend two skill points to put a rank into it.

That said, your way is a perfectly justifiably houserule, and does make the skill point process much easier.

SOLUTION: Pathfinder.

Your max ranks in a skill is your character level. If you're trained in a skill and it's a class skill for any of your classes, you get a flat +3 bonus to that skill.

No cross-class double cost nonsense and max ranks for cross class skills and what

There's no reason to switch the entire system over a single issue when you can adopt (and in this case, have adopted) a simple houserule to fix it.

[Iku Rex]

The exact rule quote the OP was looking for:

Remember that you buy skills based on the class you have advanced in, so that only those skills given as class skills for that class can be purchased as class skills for this level, regardless of what other classes you may have levels in.

[Vangor]

Here it mentions under skills that a multiclass character's max ranks for a skill is level+3 if any of his classes has it as a class skill.

I have seen this passage in my PHB, but I always focused on the latter sentence, which states, "If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill," and assumed the wording was merely sloppy, especially in combination with the example given immediately following, which doesn't explain fully the only real question anyone would have about multiclassing and skills.

My thought was, as both use "for any of the multiclass character's classes", this avoided the obvious note of "for those levels", and ignored the section in parenthesis as being supposing of all classes having the skill as a class skill since the example was worthless.

Makes sense, though, thanks.

The exact rule quote the OP was looking for

See, why can this not have been included in the multiclassing section? I mean, the information is not explicitly relevant except with multiclassing, and this does set a good contrast for explaining the max rank and points per rank mechanics of cross class skills work differently in mutliclassing. Thanks for this as well.

[woodenbandman]

My solution: Always a class skill. Forever. Every skill. Ta-da! Why can't you have a fighter who is well-spoken and well-read?

I also combined skills into larger skill branches that make sense with each other (sense motive and diplomacy, or maybe sense motive and spot).

[Ostien]

I just usually rule the once a class skill always a class skill, the rules be damned. In fact I don't like CC skills at all. You are already spending a rank to get something why be penalized double for it?

I've had long drawn out discussions on this, but my view is that skills sure represent some of your training in a class but you can specialize outside of that if you want. A fighter can no do their jumping jacks for the day in order to learn how to pick a lock. Also adventurers are not in training anymore. So it may only make sense for this class rank system to apply only at 1st level and then from there a PC can specialize in whatever.

But thats just how I view things.