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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Variant Chaining and Druids

    Here's what I'm trying to aquire, and what I'm trying to keep (one way or another) :

    Keep : Wild Shape, Spells, Rage (using a feat to cast while raging)

    Aquire : Rage (and not the wuss version in Druidic Avenger)

    Side Benefits : If it involves the one that gives monk's AC bonus, all the better, since wisdom will be ungodly high. The build will be primarily in Dragon Wild Shape, so the Wild Shape Ranger ACF can be used in the chain (and if I could get one twice, I could reverse trade for full rage!).
    "I live apart from you
    But I know the things you do
    No angel can save you, how?
    You don't need a god, 'cause I'm here now."


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Cant you just cast Enrage animal on yourself while wildshaped and also share it with your animal companion ?

    **** Photobucket ; RIP avatars

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Cant you just cast Enrage animal on yourself while wildshaped and also share it with your animal companion ?

    No, since if I could do that, I'd instead cast Nature's Avatar on myself. And Enrage Animal is just base rage, which I can get with minimal hassle. I'm trying to get the full progression, a la Raging Monk :)
    "I live apart from you
    But I know the things you do
    No angel can save you, how?
    You don't need a god, 'cause I'm here now."


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    Cant you just cast Enrage animal on yourself while wildshaped and also share it with your animal companion ?

    Because Wilde Shape no longer changes type. Errata.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by KellKheraptis View Post
    Keep : Wild Shape, Spells, Rage (using a feat to cast while raging)
    If you mean Righteous Wrath, by RAW it doesn't do that ...

    There is no RAW way to do all this, at least not without gestalt. You can't chain variants, because all variants work on the base class ... not on the class abilities themselves. You can combine variants, but that's it. Neither can you take the ranger ACF without being a ranger ... and if you're a ranger you aren't getting druid casting.

    Also, variant rules are purely by DM fiat to begin with.
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2009-10-04 at 06:17 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkysBrain View Post
    If you mean Righteous Wrath, by RAW it doesn't do that ...

    There is no RAW way to do all this, at least not without gestalt. You can't chain variants, because all variants work on the base class ... not on the class abilities themselves. You can combine variants, but that's it. Neither can you take the ranger ACF without being a ranger ... and if you're a ranger you aren't getting druid casting.

    Also, variant rules are purely by DM fiat to begin with.
    Tell all the Lion Totem Barbarians that. And furthermore, there is nothing anywhere stating you can't continue trading class features. Check 339 (I think it's still alive, and if nothing else, ACF III is). And if we're going back to "variants are all DM approval only," you're chasing your tail. Now, assuming a proper DM who enjoys players building the characters they envision (in this case, a druid who shapeshifts while raging, with spells, as opposed to a druid with spells and a pet who shifts), is there any combo of ACF's that can accomplish what is laid out in the first post?
    "I live apart from you
    But I know the things you do
    No angel can save you, how?
    You don't need a god, 'cause I'm here now."


  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by KellKheraptis View Post
    Tell all the Lion Totem Barbarians that. And furthermore, there is nothing anywhere stating you can't continue trading class features. Check 339 (I think it's still alive, and if nothing else, ACF III is).
    What do Pounce Barbarians have to do with anything? 339 of what? There's nothing explicitly stating you can do this either. And the part where the class feature is listed as a druid class feature (or rogue, or whatever) heavily implies [implicitly] that this isn't possible.

    But if your DM is willing to work with you on this, go to him; not us. If he's willing to bend some rules, he should be willing to work up a homebrew druid ACF for you (especially if it means your having more agreement to the anti-Druidzilla social contract)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by KellKheraptis View Post
    Tell all the Lion Totem Barbarians that. And furthermore, there is nothing anywhere stating you can't continue trading class features. Check 339 (I think it's still alive, and if nothing else, ACF III is). And if we're going back to "variants are all DM approval only," you're chasing your tail. Now, assuming a proper DM who enjoys players building the characters they envision (in this case, a druid who shapeshifts while raging, with spells, as opposed to a druid with spells and a pet who shifts), is there any combo of ACF's that can accomplish what is laid out in the first post?
    Emphasis mine. Since Unearthed Arcana describes the section dealing with alternate class features thusly:

    "This section presents sixteen variant versions of the
    character classes..."

    And specifically heads each section with the class name, not the class feature name, using such language as:

    "If you use this variant, the barbarian loses one or more of
    the following standard class features..."

    I'd say it's perfectly supported by the rules that the variants are for the specific classes only. Just because the variant involves swapping features doesn't mean anyone with that class feature can do it. If it is a Ranger class variant, RAW, only the Ranger qualifies.

    Now, if your DM lets you swap class features based on the variant, that's perfectly reasonable. But it's a house rule.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Quote Originally Posted by KellKheraptis View Post
    Tell all the Lion Totem Barbarians that.
    I said variant ... ACFs aren't variant, only the variants are.
    And furthermore, there is nothing anywhere stating you can't continue trading class features.
    I didn't say there was, it's just not chaining ... in the case of variants you are trading away abilities you still have on the base class for which the variant was designed, in the case of ACFs you are trading away level abilities for the base class it was designed. There is nothing to chain, since there are no variants/ACFs designed for "any class with so and so abilities" ... they are not mini prestige classes. As for simply combining them ... sure that is possible but that's not a chain, that's a stack.
    is there any combo of ACF's that can accomplish what is laid out in the first post?
    Not to my knowledge.

    How about being a psion with the dragon cohort feat and a dragon barbarian cohort? After Fusion you can be a casting, raging dragon ;)
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2009-10-04 at 08:50 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Variant Chaining and Druids

    Sorry for lack of multiquote, but to sum up, if I wanted the same effect with another class, I'd go Ardent/PsiSwiftblade and own face with umpteen extra actions and reformatting capability built into the character with a tattoo program (considering they have the absolute easiest recharge mechanic there is from Dominant Ideal). Even without variant chaining, I can get a pretty good combo by using the Wild Reaper druid, as it gets native fast healing and ability score healing (might take it exalted, so as to use some of those spells and laugh off the ability damage). Oh, and that variant gets Turn Undead. Like, real TU, not Turn Animals like IoN, so no fishy "can it use DMM." How about spells that emulate rage, other than enrage animal? Does anything come close to Bite of the Werebear, statwise, without being enhancement?
    "I live apart from you
    But I know the things you do
    No angel can save you, how?
    You don't need a god, 'cause I'm here now."


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