New System

[crazedloon]

I am currently looking for a new system for my group and myself to try out. I have played 3.5 looked at 4.0 and would like to take a step away from D&D. I am thinking of a d20 system but if there is another system that is so good it must be looked at I am all for taking a look.

So why I have posted is I would like to see some of the forums opinions. What I am looking for is.

1.flexability (the ability to represent things from mundane humans to x-men mutants to powerful wizards)
2. Easy to pick up and play but with enough complexity to maintain enjoyment over a long period of time
3. Preferably d20 or similar enough to d&d that there wont need to be a major rule set shock.

So what are yalls opinion as to what I should try and why is it your opinion?

[Gralamin]

I am currently looking for a new system for my group and myself to try out. I have played 3.5 looked at 4.0 and would like to take a step away from D&D. I am thinking of a d20 system but if there is another system that is so good it must be looked at I am all for taking a look.

So why I have posted is I would like to see some of the forums opinions. What I am looking for is.

1.flexability (the ability to represent things from mundane humans to x-men mutants to powerful wizards)
2. Easy to pick up and play but with enough complexity to maintain enjoyment over a long period of time
3. Preferably d20 or similar enough to d&d that there wont need to be a major rule set shock.

So what are yalls opinion as to what I should try and why is it your opinion?

I'd suggest Mutants and Masterminds Second edition. It covers your Flexibility, its very complex, but easy to learn, and uses d20 (but sometimes very differently)

[AmberVael]

I'd suggest Mutants and Masterminds Second edition. It covers your Flexibility, its very complex, but easy to learn, and uses d20 (but sometimes very differently)

This. Mutants and Masterminds 2e is amazingly versatile for character creation, uses rules incredibly similar to D&D 3.5, and is pretty generally nifty.

[infinitypanda]

Just because it hasn't been said already (*cough cough*), Mutants and Masterminds! 2e!

[Starscream]

Hey, has anybody mentioned Mutants and Mast...Oh I see. Well, it's still a good suggestion.

Gurps is also quite fun.

[oxinabox]

Not much like dnd, in anyway.
But nWod!
Character creation, is writen in the bottom margin of the Charater sheets.

It's fun! ie you get to role lots of dice!
It's class less, and you can build anything.

Did i mention youi get to roll lots of dice?
I have INT 4 and Occult 3 +2 (Encopedic Knowledge merit) +1 circumstance bonus (I have access to the internet)
To make my checks:
I roll 10 d10s, and could how many 8,9, 10's i get, then reroll any tens and add successes from those, rerolling 10s

somethings let you reroll 9's or even 8's.

but totally not d20 at all.
so not what you want...

[crazedloon]

Well it seems like the general concensus is M&M what books would be best to start with and expand with?

i.e. dnd most would say phb/dmg/mm would be the basics and most wuld expand with ToB/Expanded Psionic handbook and maybe the completes

[Starscream]

Well it seems like the general concensus is M&M what books would be best to start with and expand with?

There's a single core book. After that I guess it depends on what you're interested in. There are books that are nothing but new powers and such, but there are also campaign settings, magic supplements, archetypes, etc.

[NPCMook]

Mutants and Masterminds 2e, and then Mutants and Masterminds: Mecha and Manga

[The Rose Dragon]

Mutants and Masterminds 2e, and then Mutants and Masterminds: Mecha and Manga

I've also found Ultimate Power and Mastermind's Manual quite useful, and I collect books with new Archetypes, so Instant Superheroes is also nice. Freedom City and Paragons are great campaign settings to be inspired by, and anything that expands on Freedom City is also good.

You can hardly go wrong buying every M&M book Green Ronin published, really.

There is only one Superlink book I could suggest, and that is Gestalt: the Hero Within. It is a great campaign setting with a strange, strange premise.

Other than that, there is Unisystem. Basically, it's OGL done right, rather than messed up like WotC did. It doesn't use OGL rules (it doesn't even use a single d20), but it is much more flexible and sound than OGL can ever hope to be (well, except for Mutants & Masterminds, but that required GR to mod the crap out of OGL until it's hardly recognizable). The e-book of Witchcraft can be found for free on RPGNow.com, if that interests you, but the most (in)famous line of Unisystem is All Flesh Must Be Eaten (which, while having some excellent zombie creation rules, can be used without any zombies at all). You can't go wrong with Unisystem either.

[Rixx]

Mutants and Ma-

...

:[

[Animefunkmaster]

I am a big fan of Besm, or Big Eyes Small Mouth. There is a BESM d20, but I would stay away from that. The Besm 3rd edition is pretty solid, but requires much interaction between GM and player.

[BooNL]

Mutants and Masterminds has already been recommended and I support that heartily!

I can also recommend you check out Star Wars Saga, if you're into that thing. It's (IMHO) the best d20 adeptation out there. Almost everything is neatly balanced and it takes a lot of work to make a character suck...

[tcrudisi]

I was going to suggest GURPS, but I don't think I'll be heard over all these other people. I've never heard of Mutants and Masterminds before; I'll have to check it out.

GURPS is a great choice, as is WoD (new or old, though new is cheaper these days).

[kestrel404]

I'm going to buck the trend and say Earthdawn. All the versions are relatively similar. The Genre is 'Post-apocalyptic epic fantasy'. It's like a very well written pre-cursor to Eberron, set in earth's distant hidden past.

It's got a very different system from DnD, but I've always thought it was better with tighter rules and easier to learn. All you have to remember is that the 'step number' that your players are rolling is the same as the expected value of the dice pool - each step has its own unique 'pool' of dice which are added together, and getting the max value on a die means you get to re-roll and add. The step chart is on every character sheet.

[Foryn Gilnith]

In case it's not already glaringly obvious, Mutants and Masterminds is the ideal system to meet all three of your criteria. GURPS, nWoD, and probably Earthdawn are nice systems, but they don't fit all those criteria. Get M&M, just the core book, and play around with it for a bit.

[Delwugor]

Well since no one has suggested M&M I will step forward with that unpopular suggestion.

I personally like True20, very similar to d20 so it is easy to learn. Very generic so you can use it for everything from classic fantasy to space operas. 3 general roles (Warrior, Adept and Expert) that can be customized into any character type. Magic System (Powers) that can be used in all settings, even non-magic modern day. Combat can be deadly but there is a lot of room for just doing awesome things both in and out of combat.

I have personally wanted to try TriStat-DX, but not gotten my groups support for that.

[The Rose Dragon]

I have personally wanted to try TriStat-DX, but not gotten my groups support for that.

Why? M&M is highly superior compared to Tri-Stat dX as a point buy system. You really don't need to play it if you have M&M.

[Evilfeeds]

I realise that this will probably get me flamed by the whole thread, but I cant disagree more regards M&M. Its one of the few RPG systems which i genuinely despise.

I found reading the book to be a chore. We had several house rules to cover thigns we hadnt needed to cover, since none of the group (all of who had access to the book) actually read it cover to cover.

I dislike the way Hitpoints work. (its almost anagolous to having to make a fort save every time you get hit, with a penalty on each successive save. We found fights either tended to become slogging matches, or be over when someone rolled a 1 first round.)

I found the entire system incredibly flawed, and ridiculously simple to break. Some abilities are incredibly cheap for their power, and some just plain suck. A single "well made" character can pretty much rip their way through anything that isnt specifically designed to beat that character.

Also, if you want to rip off existing marvel / dc characters, you're pretty much covered: making your own powers is a LOT harder.

Obviously, Im in the minority here, but I'd recommend World of Darkness. Mage is pretty decent, although the other settings have plenty to offer.

[Artanis]

If WoD is in the picture (on the complexity, longevity, etc. fronts), I might as well go ahead and add Exalted because, believe it or not, it has rules for mortals. You can have a game where the players are mortal and the enemies are mortal. One of the later 1e supplements has rules (which work reasonably non-badly in 2e) for playing "God-blooded" characters, who would be roughly X-men level. And then there's the Exalts themselves, of course.

There is a BESM d20, but I would stay away from that.

QFT. In many ways BESM is the opposite of d20, and trying to shoehorn the two together...yeah.

[Fishy]

I hear Malconvoker is pretty goo- wait, wrong thread.

I'm a big fan of Spirit of the Century and Maid, but those are pretty much as different from d20 as you can get, so.

[BobVosh]

I would recommend GURPs. If you use just the base rules you can keep it very simple. Then just level up to using more of it ^^

M&M is ok, I guess. I never liked it much. Fits most of what ya want though.

nWoD is a great system, but lacks the flexibility you want.

SWD20 is generally considered one of the best D20s around. Still it doesn't have the flexibility you want.

So IMO it is between M&M and GURPs. Surprised?

[Delwugor]

Why? M&M is highly superior compared to Tri-Stat dX as a point buy system. You really don't need to play it if you have M&M.

Why not?

All systems can add a different flavor to a game. Sometimes just trying something out will add gads of fun and excitement.

I learned this when one of my groups decided to play old Marvel for a supers game over M&M. I was not thrilled but went along. Stupid chart that resolves everything I thought, Karma used for advancement, stunts and action what a big waste, loosing karma for killing a bad guy how lame, what use are weapons, that's a magic system?

Are there better systems? 100% YES there are but, right now I am having the most fun playing this obsolete system that wasn't thought out very well.

[oxinabox]

for playing "God-blooded" characters,

just stop there.
Scion is play a decendent of a god game.
It's Storytelling. (ie nWod system but not setting)
By equivilent of epic lvls you can basically sunder the world as a free action (to use dnd terms), but there's is a reason the epic handbook is called "God"

[Dairun Cates]

Give me a setting, and I'll give you a system. There's enough good systems out there that you should play the system that best mimics what you WANT to play. Everything from Pirates to Superheroes to Robots has a system that does it better than anyone else.

Honestly, to an extent, that kinda why I found D&D boring after a while. It mimics Tolkenien fantasy just fine, but anything else feels a bit jury-rigged. I still like it, and I'll still play a game, but I prefer something a little different myself.

Hell, that's partially why I'm writing a system right now.

Oh, and Mutants and Masterminds. That too. Always that.

[aje8]

I realise that this will probably get me flamed by the whole thread, but I cant disagree more regards M&M. Its one of the few RPG systems which i genuinely despise.

I found reading the book to be a chore. We had several house rules to cover thigns we hadnt needed to cover, since none of the group (all of who had access to the book) actually read it cover to cover.

I dislike the way Hitpoints work. (its almost anagolous to having to make a fort save every time you get hit, with a penalty on each successive save. We found fights either tended to become slogging matches, or be over when someone rolled a 1 first round.)

I found the entire system incredibly flawed, and ridiculously simple to break. Some abilities are incredibly cheap for their power, and some just plain suck. A single "well made" character can pretty much rip their way through anything that isnt specifically designed to beat that character.

Also, if you want to rip off existing marvel / dc characters, you're pretty much covered: making your own powers is a LOT harder.

Obviously, Im in the minority here, but I'd recommend World of Darkness. Mage is pretty decent, although the other settings have plenty to offer.

No offense, but not knowing the rules as a result of not reading the book is proabably not the systems fault.

The HP thing, I have found as well actually..... it's a bit annoying.

On the balance....... all I can say is, 3.5 is really unbalanced but it's still hella fun to play. I have found M&M to be quite enjoyable and only require a couple of gentlemans agreements to still be fun.

I will second (or 10th I guess?) the M&M suggestion.

To play you only need the core book. I reccomend buying ultimate power too as that book is awesome. Everything else is secondary IMO>

[Thatguyoverther]

I'd say Hero System. But no one listens to me anyways. [/weep]

[Raum]

What I am looking for is.

1.flexability (the ability to represent things from mundane humans to x-men mutants to powerful wizards)

Lots of systems meet this requirement. FATE, ORE, Savage Worlds, and Unisystem to name a few.

2. Easy to pick up and play but with enough complexity to maintain enjoyment over a long period of time

This may cut the list above down to Savage Worlds and Unisystem...depends on just how 'easy to pick up' you want. :)

3. Preferably d20 or similar enough to d&d that there wont need to be a major rule set shock.

Savage Worlds is a significant step away from d20 mechanically but it's easy to pick up. Unisystem is probably closer to a d20 look a like - just replace the d20 with a d10. Neither system uses levels though.

Question for you, you say you want to "step away" from D&D while still using something similar to d20. What facets of D&D did you want to move away from? Most d20 systems will be very similar mechanically.

That said, if you really want to stick with a d20 system...well you might look at Mutants and Masterminds. Not that anyone has suggested it yet. It may not be such a good idea if you're really trying to "step away" from D&D.