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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jun 2009
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    Fayetteville, AR
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    Male

    Default Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

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    Arena is 30 feet tall, worked stone. Normal lighting.

    Buff Rounds : 1 + All Day (12+ hour) buffs.

    Starting locations: I'll start somewhere in the top two rows, and you'll start somewhere in the bottom two. Cool?

  2. - Top - End - #2

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Cool with me.

    Buffs:
    Spoiler
    Show
    All day: Greater Magic Weapon (+5) on my chain and spikes

    1 round: Tattoo of Touchsight


    Starting location:
    Spoiler
    Show
    C25


    Init: (1d20+5)[14]

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jun 2009
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Introducing Ryth'lin.

    Relevant modes of detection :
    True Seeing

    Starting position :
    Spoiler
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    H1, 10ft above ground.


    Buffs :
    Spoiler
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    Round 1: Drink Potion of Shield of Faith
    All-Day:
    Persistent Extended Quickened Shield [Power Component: Guardinal Feather]
    Persistent Protection From Evil
    Persistent Master's Touch
    Persistent Blades of Fire
    Persistent Ectoplasmic Armor
    Persistent Bladeweave
    Persistent Burning Sword
    Persistent Heroics [Improved Initiative]
    Persistent Wraithstrike
    Persistent Sonic Weapon
    Persistent Weapon Of Impact
    Persistent Weapon of Energy [Acid]
    Persistent Haste
    Persistent Greater Magic Weapon [+3]
    Persistent Displacement
    Persistent Fly
    Persistent Greater Mighty Wallop
    Persistent Greater Luminous Armor [Power Component: Guardinal Feather]
    Persistent Greater Invisibility
    Persistent Greater Mirror Image
    Persistent Acid Sheathe
    Persistent Greater Blink
    Persistent Bite Of The Wereboar
    Persistent Extended Divine Power
    Persistent Antimagic Field [Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude myself]
    Persistent Bite Of The Weretiger
    Persistent Greater Heroism
    Persistent True Seeing
    Oil of Greater Magic Weapon [+5]


    Initiative: (d20+15)[21]

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Relevant modes of Detection: Touchsight

    You're up?

    And, are there any exploits being used that prevent this character's allowance into Qualifiers?
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 12:14 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Ryth'lin

    Turn 1 :
    Spoiler
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    Fly forward to K16


    Do you have line of sight/effect to the areas surrounding K16, and do you grant it? Also, touchsight within 10ft of K16 fails. You detect nothing there.


    Edit:
    I do not think I'm exploiting any limited or banned abilities. I simply have a character already in a long-dead dungeon instance, and I didn't feel like making this character dungeon-ready.
    Last edited by ex cathedra; 2009-10-05 at 12:28 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    No, I have no LOS to there, but I have LOE to some areas within 10 feet of it.


    I can only assume with the range of that effect, and the description, that it's an AMF. AMF wizard, hm... Must be a melee mage build.

    Done with your turn?
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 12:36 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Not quite.

    Spoiler
    Show

    I take a total defense action. Because I'm scared.


    And now I am. Go ahead.

  8. - Top - End - #8

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Round 1:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move west, then North, to B15. Activate tattoo of expansion. Expand to cover A14-B16 (squeezing for C row)

    Activate Thicket of Blades Stance, cause I can.


    Now I must figure out if you're a Grapple base that wanted to avoid FoM, an AMF donut build that wants to use magic while denying it to those close to him, or a Darkstalker/HiPS base, to avoid touchsight/mindsight while sniping. If you're a mage, then 2 and 3 both mean donuting the AMF, simply due to HiPS.

    Done, by the by.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 12:53 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Round 2 :

    Spoiler
    Show

    Move to F20.


    The field and I move to F20. LoS/E? Not done.

  10. - Top - End - #10

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    You see a portion of me in A17 and B17. Heh.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Oh my. What does this portion look like?

    Also, assuming touch sight is your only extraordinary sense, you see nothing within the area that you detect as an antimagic field.

    I'll move to B18.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Activate a Belt of Battle


    Not done.

  12. - Top - End - #12

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Holding a spike chain, about 32 feet tall.

    At B18, I go back to medium size.

    Oh, and one more thing. You're aware that you cannot cast defensively within a rather large area of me.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 01:36 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    I attack.

    If you don't interrupt my attack:
    Spoiler
    Show


    I am invisible, and I remain so while attacking.

    Attack 1:
    Spoiler
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    (d20+31)[34] vs Touch AC.

    Hit :
    Spoiler
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    (8d8+18)[60] Bludgeoning damage
    [roll]1d6+1d8[/roll] Fire damage
    (1d6)[1] Acid Damage
    (1d6)[4] Sonic damage.

    If successful, make a DC20 will save.
    If you fail:
    Spoiler
    Show

    You are stunned for one round.




    Attack 2:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (d20+31)[42] vs Touch AC.

    Hit :
    Spoiler
    Show

    (8d8+18)[53] Bludgeoning damage
    [roll]1d6+1d8[/roll] Fire damage
    (1d6)[1] Acid Damage
    (1d6)[1] Sonic damage.

    If this is the first successful attack of the round, make a DC20 will save.
    If you fail:
    Spoiler
    Show

    You are stunned for one round.




    Attack 3:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (d20+26)[41] vs Touch AC.

    Hit :
    Spoiler
    Show

    (8d8+18)[55] Bludgeoning damage
    [roll]1d6+1d8[/roll] Fire damage
    (1d6)[3] Acid Damage
    (1d6)[6] Sonic damage.

    If this is the first successful attack of the round, make a DC20 will save.
    If you fail:
    Spoiler
    Show

    You are stunned for one round.




    Attack 4:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (d20+21)[22] vs Touch AC.

    Hit :
    Spoiler
    Show

    (8d8+18)[49] Bludgeoning damage
    [roll]1d6+1d8[/roll] Fire damage
    (1d6)[2] Acid Damage
    (1d6)[6] Sonic damage.

    If this is the first successful attack of the round, make a DC20 will save.
    If you fail:
    Spoiler
    Show

    You are stunned for one round.



    Last edited by ex cathedra; 2009-10-05 at 01:47 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    And the roller disappoints me.

    To clarify certain damage rolls:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Attack 1:
    Spoiler
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    (1d6)[2] Fire damage
    (1d8)[7] Fire damage


    Attack 2:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (1d6)[4] Fire damage
    (1d8)[2] Fire damage


    Attack 3:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (1d6)[4] Fire damage
    (1d8)[5] Fire damage


    Attack 4:
    Spoiler
    Show

    (1d6)[6] Fire damage
    (1d8)[4] Fire damage


  15. - Top - End - #15

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    That's match. And looking at your buff list, how the hell do you get 28 persisted spells? I'd say that qualifies as "exploit".

    Via DMM, that is 196 turn attempts.

    Outside of DMM, that's a rather large amount of reduction, which, as a general rule of thumb, is heavily mitigated.

    In either case, any build with persistent AMF likely has no place in competetive play. There's quite literally no reliable way to counter it. While I do have characters that could beat it, largely due to the "excluding yourself from AMF" donut effect, there is no counter to an AMF.

    If you'd care to bring a different build to matches, that's one thing.

    But know that any build independently capable of persisting 28 spells is likely pushing the bounds of "exploit".
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 01:51 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Oh, it didn't qualify as an exploit until now, or atleast very soon. I'll show you the sheet. The persist effect is a quality of certain build choices that will be banned, very likely because of this character, I think. I'm not positive, but I may be the first person to use it here.

  17. - Top - End - #17

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Also, note that I should have seen you.

    AMF Suppresses effects in its area, but does not block Line of Effect, nor does it stop effects passing through it. It's why donuting an AMF is typically very foolish. I can cast a magic missile while on one side of an AMF, it will pass straight through, and hit a target on the other side (provided the target isn't subject to the AMF).

    Thus, I'd be able to detect anything within the AMF that was excluded from the effect. You.

    For another example. You listed true seeing as going out through the AMF. The principle is identical.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 01:55 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #18

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Quote Originally Posted by aethernox View Post
    Oh, it didn't qualify as an exploit until now, or atleast very soon. I'll show you the sheet. The persist effect is a quality of certain build choices that will be banned, very likely because of this character, I think. I'm not positive, but I may be the first person to use it here.
    Something does not need to be banned to be an exploit, Aethernox.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    That may be true.

    In regards towards AMFs:
    I really find it hard to say precisely how ESA'd Antimagic Fields work. It doesn't remove the AMF from my space, it simply excludes me from the effect. To what extent it does so is admittedly vague, and deserves further consideration.

    I'm sorry if you feel wronged, really.

  20. - Top - End - #20

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Quote Originally Posted by aethernox View Post
    That may be true.

    In regards towards AMFs:
    I really find it hard to say precisely how ESA'd Antimagic Fields work. It doesn't remove the AMF from my space, it simply excludes me from the effect. To what extent it does so is admittedly vague, and deserves further consideration.

    I'm sorry if you feel wronged, really.
    Exactly. Touchsight doesn't need to see everything in your square to see YOU.

    If YOU are affected normally by magic, then all magic functions normally with respect to YOU.

    In other words, I'm not trying to see your square. Your donut is smaller, but it's still a place in the AMF where magic functions.

    If it functions going out, it functions going in. There's no vagueness there. No consideration. If you can be affected by blink and invisibility, you can be affected by True seeing and touchsight.

    There's not a "these 28 spells affect me, because I like that, and it says so... but those 4 spells don't."

    Either spells can pass through an AMF to a target which can be affected, or they can't.

    And by RAW, they can.

    That means that you'd have had an AoO for moving inward.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 02:04 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    RAW: AMF does not block LoE given my understanding. Thus, it does not properly block emanations. So he can see you. It's stupid, but until we rewrite AMF, which is.... distant.... This is how it works.
    Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
    DocRoc: to?
    Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    I am unaffected by the AMF. It still effects the area around me and the area in which I reside, it simply doesn't affect me, specifically. The AMF still functions.

    Tide disagrees, so be it. Apologies, PR, really.
    Last edited by ex cathedra; 2009-10-05 at 02:09 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #23

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Which means AoO:

    Attack: (1d20+31)[32]
    If Hit, Stand Still: Reflex Save DC 10+(3d6+27)[37] or stop as if all movement for the turn was used up.

    This attack ignores all magical miss chances, and 20% of nonmagical miss chances.

    Which means that due to the nat 1, everything still goes off.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 02:14 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #24

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Attack 1-4, for your attacks

    Miss chance 1: (1d100)[99]
    Miss chance 2: (1d100)[22]
    Miss chance 3: (1d100)[91]
    Miss chance 4: (1d100)[97]

    1-20 misses.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Poor luck on rolls, for both of us. Does this mean that my action was executed as planned?

  26. - Top - End - #26

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Yes. But now, it was done legally.

    EDIT: And the poorer luck was mine. 1 result that would have missed, and I got it. DC 47 reflex saves are rather difficult to make.
    Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-10-05 at 02:31 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Were you attacking touch AC? If so, that is mostly true.

    Really, again, sorry for the confusion. Good game, PhoenixRivers.

  28. - Top - End - #28

    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    I was ignoring any concealment granted from magic, and any AC boost granted from magic.

    (Pierce Magical Concealment and Pierce Magical Protection)

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Test of Spite Exhibition : aethernox vs. PhoenixRivers

    Pierce Magical Protection requires a single attack as part of a standard action, does it not?

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