Question on pounce (Cave Troll - 3.5)

[EarFall]

Okay, so those of you who've used cave trolls in 3.5, they can be abysmally powerful.. I threw them as a fledgling DM, and my fledgling players hated them. I still throw them, they still hate them, six years later.

But I have a question. Their pounce says "Can make a full attack, including two rakes."

They have improved grab with their bite. When they "get a hold" they may make their rake attacks. IF the grab hits, is this telling me that their attack series on a pounce would be:

Claw/Claw/Rend (if both hit)/Bite/(Rake by Grapple)/(Rake by Grapple)/Rake by pounce/rake by pounce?

It seems to imply that it can do so... if so.. they are even more of a disgusting brute at a CR 8 then i thought. (And yes, I know, they're stupid, and their to hit isn't great, but still...)

[starwoof]

Looks that way. Ouch.

I'm going to throw those at my group.

[EarFall]

Looks that way. Ouch.

I'm going to throw those at my group.

Yeah, and remember, they are sentient, if stupid. It can learn. So it can't hit something, keep in mind it will gain 3 to hit from not power attacking the AC whore. Also, pray it doesn't find the rogue first! (I would say wizard, but a wizard who gets hit isn't doing it right).

[starwoof]

Yep. I've seen those before but never read the stat block. They are a lot cooler than I thought.

But... wow. I wish I hadn't told my roommate about them just now. He DM's our 7th level party.

[EarFall]

Yep. I've seen those before but never read the stat block. They are a lot cooler than I thought.

But... wow. I wish I hadn't told my roommate about them just now. He DM's our 7th level party.

My group of level 6's is about to experience pain :D

[starwoof]

You cruel, cruel man!


I'm gonna start preparing more cure spells. I've got a feeling our duskblade is going to die in the next few days.

[GallóglachMaxim]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the rules, but I think this bit is important here 'A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.'

Pounce gets you around having to already be grappling to rake, but you don't get the two '(Rake by Grapple)'s on the turn when you charge because that's the normal rake attack which you need to have started the turn in a grapple to use.

[EarFall]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the rules, but I think this bit is important here 'A monster with the rake ability must begin its turn grappling to use its rake—it can’t begin a grapple and rake in the same turn.'

Pounce gets you around having to already be grappling to rake, but you don't get the two '(Rake by Grapple)'s on the turn when you charge because that's the normal rake attack which you need to have started the turn in a grapple to use.

Thank you, there's what I needed.