Weird requirement.

[zagan]

For some time now I want to make a character a wizard going into fleshwarper.
So looking at the requirement you need:
Alignement: Non lawfull (easy enough)
Skill: Heal 4 rank, Know (arcana) 8 rank (A few skill point cross class no problem)
Feat: Graft flesh (hum, I have to look at the requirement for that.)
Special: Summon familiar class feature (No problem)

Well that look easy, I probably won't have any problem, let's take a look at the graft flesh feat:

Graft Flesh [Item creation]
Prerequisite: Heal 10 rank (What the hell ?)

I need to be level 17 to have that many cross class rank, taking the feat at 18 I can have two level of fleshwarper.

Doesn't that seem weird to anyone ?

Below are the official way to gain heal as class skill without multiclassing:
Being a Glimersking halfling
Half-gold dragon template
Dragonic heritage feat (golden) for sorcerer
or the same feat plus dragontouched for wizard.

Wow, that's very limiting and none of them are in the same book as Fleshwarper. Can anyone explain that to me and do you have any other example of the same style.

[Fax Celestis]

Ooooooooor take a level of a class that has heal as a class skill. Not difficult. Hell, Loremaster has heal in-class.

[vampire2948]

Take the Able Learner feat? Or a level in Factotum?

[Milskidasith]

Take a level in human paragon?

Take Able Learner?

Take a level in Factotum?

EDIT: Ninja'd!

[Dixieboy]

Take Able Learner?

EDIT: Ninja'd!

I don't think that makes him able to take any more ranks in cross class, it just makes them cheaper.

I'm probably wrong though.

[Tavar]

Able learner wouldn't really help, though. The feat doesn't remove the CC skill cap, only the 2:1 cost. You'd still need a way to make it a class skill.

[woodenbandman]

Take the Skill Knowledge feat:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/bu...skillKnowledge

[zagan]

Below are the official way to gain heal as class skill without multiclassing:
Being a Glimersking halfling
Half-gold dragon template
Dragonic heritage feat (golden) for sorcerer
or the same feat plus dragontouched for wizard.

Wow, that's very limiting and none of them are in the same book as Fleshwarper. Can anyone explain that to me and do you have any other example of the same style.

the point I was trying to make, is taht sometimes we don't want to multiclass and (lose a caster level).

In that case my build was something like that:
Changeling wizard5/alienist5/fleshwarper10
I need the 5 wizard level for the changeling racial substituion, alienist 5 for the pseudonatural template on the familliar and fleshwarper in totality because it's the most important part of the build.

But even without that example, are they other class with requirement like that.

PS: Able learner don't work any way because it doesn't raise the max of cross class skill.

Edit:

Take the Skill Knowledge feat:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/bu...skillKnowledge

It's a part of a variant rule, no DM I know would allow it.

[Darrin]

Below are the official way to gain heal as class skill without multiclassing:

{Scrubbed. Please don't link there.} Skill Knowledge[/URL] in Unearthed Arcana or the SRD. It may appear in the Alternative Skills section, but it's a general feat designed for use with the standard skill system.

{Scrubbed. Please don't link there.}Flexible Mind[/URL] from Dragon #326 would also work for two cross-class skills.

[zagan]

I didn't know about flexible mind ,its from dragon but the fact that it exist make it easier for a Dm to allow it. Thanks for the info.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The only other example off hand that I know that invalidates the otherwise shoe-in class is Anarchic Initiate, due to needing Knowledge: The Planes 8. Poor, poor Wilders.

Alternatively, if you look at every divine prestige class ever that was not meant for druids, Favored Souls kind of get the shaft, too. It's either "You need Turning" or "You need Knowledge: Religion 8." Either case, at the bare minimum, delays the Favored Soul. It's more an issue with the base class, but it's worth mentioning.

EDIT: Forgot about Dracolexi. It needs a few ranks in Perform (Oratory), but it doesn't give it as a class skill. It's meant for spontaneous arcane classes.

[Fax Celestis]

the point I was trying to make, is taht sometimes we don't want to multiclass and (lose a caster level).

LOREMASTER.

HEAL.

CLASS SKILL.

NO CASTER LEVEL LOSS.

Very simple.

[zagan]

Sorry, sorry didn't see that bit. While I doesn't help my build its nice to know.

[Foryn Gilnith]

I didn't know about flexible mind ,its from dragon but the fact that it exist make it easier for a Dm to allow it. Thanks for the info.

I've never had a DM allow anything from Dragon. I've frequently had DMs use Unearthed Arcana, especially the less dramatic changes (see: one feat that quite reasonably adds a class skill to your skill list, requires no rules changes). And whether or not it's questionable, it certainly "exists".

DMG2's apprentice feats might have one that gives Heal as a class skill.

[zagan]

I've never had a DM allow anything from Dragon. I've frequently had DMs use Unearthed Arcana, especially the less dramatic changes (see: one feat that quite reasonably adds a class skill to your skill list, requires no rules changes). And whether or not it's questionable, it certainly "exists".

DMG2's apprentice feats might have one that gives Heal as a class skill.

I've seen more than once someone pointing that skil knowledge come from a variable rule, but yes it exist too.

As weird as it sound none of the various apprentice feat give heal.

[Foryn Gilnith]

As weird as it sound none of the various apprentice feat give heal.

Damn. Well, they nerfed Heal pretty heavily in D&D anyway (see: the cleric spell list). Does sort of suck that you need it for Graft Flesh, though.

Have you tried direct DM negotiation? If you lose a CL having to dip into another class just for heal, (s)he might waive the CL loss on Fleshwarper 1.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

i think what's really weird is the heal requirement for the class itself. if you already need 10 ranks, what's the point in having another pre-req for 4 ranks?

[zagan]

So far I've only ask one Dm for it, but he didn't want to houserule it, but I'm sure I will find one willing to negociate at some point, its not a big thing.
This topic was mostly to see if other prc have weird requirement like that and what people think about it.
It got a little sidetrac but I did learn about the dragon mag feat, so no loss.

Edit:

i think what's really weird is the heal requirement for the class itself. if you already need 10 ranks, what's the point in having another pre-req for 4 ranks?

Perhaps, their is a way to gain it as a bonus feat without meeting the requirement in that case you still need some rank in heal to enter the prc.
I need to check that, I didn't think about it, but it's doubtfull.

[Fluffles]

Get an item of +10 heal, then never lose it

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Get an item of +10 heal, then never lose it

Doesn't grant ranks, so doesn't count to prerequisites.

[BobVosh]

Perhaps, their is a way to gain it as a bonus feat without meeting the requirement in that case you still need some rank in heal to enter the prc.
I need to check that, I didn't think about it, but it's doubtfull.

You are talking about a company that has made several sample characters that
1. Sucked
2. Broke the rules

I somehow doubt it.

[zagan]

You are talking about a company that has made several sample characters that
1. Sucked
2. Broke the rules

I somehow doubt it.

Yes, I know but one can only hope.