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    Default The Blessed [PEACH]

    The Blessed

    Description
    Basically, the chosen of the Gods. Gifted with both arcane and divine magic.
    Those who worship Gods see Blessed as incredibly lucky and holy, and wizards want to study them to see how the gods give them arcane magic. Clerics and wizards are mildly jealous of them and how they got their power, but Blessed get along well with other classes, especially Sorcerers and Bards.

    Abilities
    Charisma and Wisdom are important to Blessed so they can cast their spells, and Intelligence so they know more spells. Strength or Dexterity is also important, depending on your weapon of choice.

    Races
    By definition, all races can become Blessed.

    Alignments
    Blessed must have an alignment within one step of their God's.

    Class Skills
    Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Heal, Knowledge (arcane), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
    Starting= (2 + Int Mod) x 4
    Every Level after= 2 + Int Mod

    Hit Die
    d6

    The Blessed
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Blessing
    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Blessing
    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Blessing
    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |
    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |
    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |
    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Blessing
    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |
    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |
    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Blessing
    [/table]

    Spells Per Day
    {table=head]Level|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    ||||||||
    2nd|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |||||||||
    3rd|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    0
    ||||||||
    4th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    ||||||||
    5th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    |||||||
    6th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    |||||||
    7th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    ||||||
    8th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    ||||||
    9th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    |||||
    10th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    |||||
    11th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    ||||
    12th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    ||||
    13th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    |||
    14th|
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    |||
    15th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    ||
    16th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    ||
    17th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    0
    |
    18th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+1
    |
    19th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+2
    |
    20th|
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d2+4
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    |
    1d3+3
    [/table]

    At the beginning of every game session, the Blessed's player rolls new spells per day. They have these numbers for Spells Per Day for a few days (during the gaming session). Every now and then (at the beginning of a new session) a God will increase or decrease the flow of power to the Blessed, but not drastically.

    Spells Known
    Blessed know half as many spells as sorcerers, but that many in each arcane and divine spells. On odd numbers, choose either one arcane spell or one divine spell of that level. On even numbers, add the other spell.


    Class Features
    -Proficient with simple and martial weapons, and light armor. Blessed do not have Arcane Spell Failure in light armor, but still have it in medium and heavy. They can also cast spells while wielding a weapon.
    -A Blessed can cast both arcane and divine spells from both the cleric and sorcerer/wizard spell lists. To cast a divine spell, a Blessed must have a Wisdom equal to or greater than 10 + the spellís level, and with arcane spells, Charisma must be at least 10 + the spellís level. The DC for the save against a Blessedís spells is equal to 10 + the spell level + the Cha or Wis modifier.
    -A Blessed can only cast a certain number of spells every day. In addition, a Blessed gains extra arcane spells per day with a high Charisma, and extra divine spells per day with a high Wisdom. Their spell selection is extremely limited; they donít prepare their spells like a wizard or cleric, they know them like a sorcerer. In addition, they gain more spells known with a high Intelligence.

    -Blessings:
    -Level 4:
    *+10 skill points, +1 non-class skill added to class skill list
    *3/4 BAB
    *+1 Save DC for spells (either arcane or divine)
    *Roll twice at the beginning of the gaming session and take the greater of the two rolls for every level of spells.

    -Level 8:
    *1 BAB (must have 3/4)
    *+1 Save DC for spells (other)
    *+2 insight to AC, +10 Speed
    *+2 Attack and Damage

    -Level 12, 16, 20:
    *1 Domain (must be one of gods)
    *+2 Save DC for spells (arcane or divine/other)
    *+1 Stat
    *+3 Attack and Damage

    Bonus Spells Known
    Int 10: no extra
    12: 1 extra 0th level
    14: 2 extra 0th
    16: 2 extra 0th, 1 1st
    18: 3 extra 0th, 1 1st
    20: 3 extra 0th, 2 1st
    22: 3 extra 0th, 2 1st, 1 2nd
    etc.
    Divide the even spells evenly between arcane and divine, and choose between the odds which ones are arcane or divine. You do not get bonus spells for temporary Intelligence.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Jokasti; 2009-10-24 at 10:43 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Edited Blessings and Spells Known.
    I'll post a sample character soon.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Disclaimer: I am trying to help.

    Skills: Why 4+ per level? Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, and Favored Souls all get 2+ per level. The only spellcasters that get more than that have other focuses (Druids do nature skills, Bards do face stuff, Beguilers do sneaking). Why are Hide and Move Silently on the list? I might also question Spot and Listen, but I think those should be more common so whatever.

    Hit Die: Could argue for d4 like a Mystic Theurge gets, but not a big deal.

    BAB: 1/2 makes sense.

    Saves: Good will makes sense, but why good reflex? That's more the domain of a rogue or bard or other slippery folks than a full caster.

    Spells Known: Ouch. Do you round up, down, or up for one class and down for the other? Honestly, this needs increasing for the class to be viable. Bonus spells known based on Int aren't enough to cover this, and were I to make a member of this class I would dump Int so I could get more Cha and Wis.

    Class Features
    -Why martial weapons?
    -Light armor proficiency but nothing about ignoring Arcane Spell Failure in light armor. Is this intentional?
    -Spells per day... like a sorcerer for the base? Possible confusion about tracking two separate sets of spontaneous slots, one arcane and one divine.
    -Blessings... what? +3 DC for spells? Also, your bonuses should be typed to reduce their power. Otherwise every character in the game will dip a level in Blessed for a bonus to almost anything they want.

    Overall, the class is at the same time too good (full arcane and divine casting) and too weak (...but you only get ~2 spells known a level for each side.). Blessings need a look. Maybe more class features. Pinch some from the Favored Soul?
    Last edited by Glimbur; 2009-10-11 at 05:59 PM.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Disclaimer: I am trying to help.

    Skills: Why 4+ per level? Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, and Favored Souls all get 2+ per level. The only spellcasters that get more than that have other focuses (Druids do nature skills, Bards do face stuff, Beguilers do sneaking). Why are Hide and Move Silently on the list? I might also question Spot and Listen, but I think those should be more common so whatever.

    Hit Die: Could argue for d4 like a Mystic Theurge gets, but not a big deal.

    BAB: 1/2 makes sense.

    Saves: Good will makes sense, but why good reflex? That's more the domain of a rogue or bard or other slippery folks than a full caster.

    Spells Known: Ouch. Do you round up, down, or up for one class and down for the other? Honestly, this needs increasing for the class to be viable. Bonus spells known based on Int aren't enough to cover this, and were I to make a member of this class I would dump Int so I could get more Cha and Wis.

    Class Features
    -Why martial weapons?
    -Light armor proficiency but nothing about ignoring Arcane Spell Failure in light armor. Is this intentional?
    -Spells per day... like a sorcerer for the base? Possible confusion about tracking two separate sets of spontaneous slots, one arcane and one divine.
    -Blessings... what? +3 DC for spells? Also, your bonuses should be typed to reduce their power. Otherwise every character in the game will dip a level in Blessed for a bonus to almost anything they want.

    Overall, the class is at the same time too good (full arcane and divine casting) and too weak (...but you only get ~2 spells known a level for each side.). Blessings need a look. Maybe more class features. Pinch some from the Favored Soul?
    Skills: Good point.
    Hit Die: I Averaged the sorcerer and cleric class hit die.
    Saves: They are supposed to be quick and able to dodge well.
    Spells Known: When you have an even number on the Sorcerer Spells Known List, the spells are divided evenly. On Odds, you choose either an Arcane or a Divine spell to be learned, and when that goes up to an even, you gain the other spell.
    Feature-
    -Martial weapons because I am going to incorporate a random factor into the number of spells Blessed get a day, and when that number is low, they have to rely on their physical skills.
    -Forgot to put it in. Thanks!
    -See above
    -You need 5 levels in Blessed to get their first Blessing, soooooooooooo....
    -I'll clarify and add more to the BLessings.
    Last edited by Jokasti; 2009-10-11 at 08:10 PM.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    -You need 5 levels in Blessed to get their first Blessing
    According to the chart you get one at first level

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldar Ditto View Post
    According to the chart you get one at first level
    Whoops. Thanks for the catch.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    I like the idea, even if it does seem like it would be somewhat underpowered. Yes, I can heal myself and cast wizard spells, but the wizard and cleric can do both better. Sigh, dabbling never ends well.

    Also, in the beginning you state that lawful blesses run from the law often. Why?
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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Nil View Post
    I like the idea, even if it does seem like it would be somewhat underpowered. Yes, I can heal myself and cast wizard spells, but the wizard and cleric can do both better. Sigh, dabbling never ends well.

    Also, in the beginning you state that lawful blesses run from the law often. Why?
    Clerics do not get along well with Blessed because they 'earned' their power, while Blessed were chosen. Clerics usually are part of the government (/law).

    Wizards don't like em either, for the same reasons. Sorcerers, Barbarians, Bards, and Druids like Blessed.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Sample Blessed:
    Name: Yohannibe
    Class/Level: Blessed/13
    Race/Alignment: Human/True Neutral
    Deity: Pelor
    Str:16(3)
    Dex:18(4)
    Con:18(4)
    Int:22(6)
    Wis:22(6)
    Cha:22(6)
    HP:110
    AC:20
    Initiative:+8
    Fort:13
    Ref:17
    Will:19
    BAB: +7/+2
    Skills(Name/Ranks):Bluff/16, Concentration/16, Disguise/8, Gather Info/8, Intimidate/8, Knowledge (arcana)/16, Knowledge (religion)/16, Listen/16, Move Silently/8, Sense Motive/8, Spellcraft/16, Spot/16
    Items: Longsword, Chain shirt, Gloves of Dex +4, Amulet of Health +4, Belt of Giant Strength +4, Periapt of Wisdom +4, Cloak of Charisma +4, Bracelet of Int +4, Cloak of Resistance +5
    Feats: Improved Initiative, 5 Metamagic feats
    Spells:
    Arcane:
    0th: Prestidigitation, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Message, Light
    1st: Mage Armor, Mount, Charm Person
    2nd: Scorching Ray, Eagle's Splendor, Owl's Wisdom
    3rd: Fireball, Fly
    4th: Phantasmal Killer, Greater Invisibility
    5th: Dominate Person, Baleful Polymorph
    6th: Disintegrate
    Divine:
    0th: Resistance, Guidance, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink
    1st: Cure Light Wounds, Command
    2nd: Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance
    3rd: Cure Serious Wounds, Searing Light
    4th: Cure and Inflict Critical Wounds
    5th: Flame Strike
    6th: Planar Ally
    Blessings:
    +1 BAB
    +2 AC


    Mostly reliant on spells, but as soon as he can, will upgrade his longsword into a magic item.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    I was conferring with a pal of mine, and he said to minimalize the randomness of the SPD, because when there aren't as many spells in a day the group wil have to rest until a decent number of spells are obtained.
    Comments? And how would I switch the randomness for set numbers?

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    It's really strange to have spells/day determined randomly. I can't see any advantage and at least one disadvantage.

    It's a bookkeeping nightmare. A 10th level Blessed would have to roll twelve dice after every rest and keep track of the numbers and not mix them up with yesterday's spells per day.

    Is there a flavor reason for this mechanic?

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    It's really strange to have spells/day determined randomly. I can't see any advantage and at least one disadvantage.

    It's a bookkeeping nightmare. A 10th level Blessed would have to roll twelve dice after every rest and keep track of the numbers and not mix them up with yesterday's spells per day.

    Is there a flavor reason for this mechanic?
    Basically, I wanted it to be that they have a lot of magical power, but can't always rely on it. And you're right about the dice-rolling nightmare. I think I'm going to have to have to change the # of spells per day. How bout this: You roll at the beginning of the meeting, and those are the numbers for the entire meeting. When the next meeting begins, you roll your spells for day for that meeting. The in-game reason for this would be that every now and then, your god increases or decreases your flow of power to see how you would react. And there could be a new blessing that allows you to roll twice a meeting and take the better result for each level of spell.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Have you considered rolling for spells known each day as well?

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    ...and Intelligence so they know more spells.
    Does the intelligence boost to spells known work on one side or two?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    Blessed can be all alignments; however, lawful Blessed are rarer, if only because they are running from the law so often.
    This is what is confusing me the most flavorwise. What gods/goddess are you using for this class? I can easily see a blessed of a LG deity being a moral pillar of society, well respected by everyone, and not chases out from the law.

    Also, I feel that this class is too broad in scope; you're trying to roll a "bard" (in skill selection), a sorc, a cleric, and a fighter into one class. I personally think that most of your class skills are not needed, and I personally feel that being a mystic theurge base class is fine.

    +1 BAB is useless in a 1/2 BAB class with potential access to divine power, and

    Random spells per day is a bookkeeping nightmare and should not be done unless you and the DM agree on it. For 1d6/2 spells per day, do you round up or down if you get a fraction?
    Last edited by Stompy; 2009-10-11 at 10:56 PM.
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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Have you considered rolling for spells known each day as well?
    Yes, but the point of rolling for SPD is to see how much power the god decides to give you. It's like you already have a car, just how much gasoline do you have. So you know the spells, you just dont know how often you can use them.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    So, I noticed that there isn't any marking as to whether or not the Blessings are supernatural, extraordinary nor how long they last and what it takes to activate them.

    As for the blessings themselves, real men grab +3 to save DCs each chance they get. The stat bonuses demand some sort of type, probably sacred/profane, but I would also drop those, because, really, getting free stat boosts is generally too good. The speed bonus is pathetic, as is the BAB bonus. The AC bonus is handy early game, worthless late. The extra skill points are odd and are basically two (near worthless) feats. Same goes for the bonus class skill, really. The bonus spell needs a little templating to clarify if it's one extra spell for all divine spell levels or is it one extra spell for one level of one type?

    The only blessing that actually feels to be worth it is the domain ability. Everything else is either terrible or too good (I'm looking at you, +3 to spell DCs).



    Also, I'm going to agree with Glimbur on the rolling for spells per day. At first level, you're at least as effective as every other non-Focused Specialist caster. At 20th level, you're rolling 20 dice to then figure out how many spells you have. Sure, you don't have to prepare them, but it's still a nightmare to figure out what you can actually afford to do in a day.

    EDIT: Post came in while typing, so quoting this here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    Yes, but the point of rolling for SPD is to see how much power the god decides to give you. It's like you already have a car, just how much gasoline do you have. So you know the spells, you just dont know how often you can use them.
    I personally would like to know how much gas I have at any given time so I don't get half-way to Chicago when my car dies.
    Last edited by Thrice Dead Cat; 2009-10-11 at 11:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    Does the intelligence boost to spells known work on one side or two?
    If by that you mean, do you get less spells per day if your Int is less than 10? Then no. It works the same way as bonus spells per day in the PHB, just with Known.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    This is what is confusing me the most flavorwise. What gods/goddess are you using for this class? I can easily see a blessed of a LG deity being a moral pillar of society, well respected by everyone, and not chases out from the law.
    Any God can Bless anyone. However, even a LG Blessed is not popular in most towns controlled by Clerics/Wizards, for aforementioned reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    Also, I feel that this class is too broad in scope; you're trying to roll a "bard" (in skill selection), a sorc, a cleric, and a fighter into one class. I personally think that most of your class skills are not needed, and I personally feel that being a mystic theurge base class is fine.
    I wanted the class to be where you could use spells, and once you are out of spells, attack with a weapon. I see what you mean about the excess class skills though. I also did not think about this being a MT base class until you just posted it. There's no point in using the MT with this class because you would just get the same thing w/ less BAB, F/W/R. But I see what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    +1 BAB is useless in a 1/2 BAB class with potential access to divine power.
    Yes, potential. Are you suggesting a higher BAB bonus, or the expungement of this Blessing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stompy View Post
    Random spells per day is a bookkeeping nightmare and should not be done unless you and the DM agree on it. For 1d6/2 spells per day, do you round up or down if you get a fraction?
    I'm thinking about random spells per meeting. And up (1 and 2=1, 3 and 4=2, and 5 and 6=3. Essentially a d3)

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    Yes, but the point of rolling for SPD is to see how much power the god decides to give you. It's like you already have a car, just how much gasoline do you have. So you know the spells, you just dont know how often you can use them.
    It's more like a car that can go one of two speeds: 10mph or 70mph.

    Honestly, rolling crappy spells/day one session is like the GM taking away the wizard's spellbook, except it's a class feature. "Your spells randomly might go away" just isn't fun.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    So, I noticed that there isn't any marking as to whether or not the Blessings are supernatural, extraordinary nor how long they last and what it takes to activate them.

    As for the blessings themselves, real men grab +3 to save DCs each chance they get. The stat bonuses demand some sort of type, probably sacred/profane, but I would also drop those, because, really, getting free stat boosts is generally too good. The speed bonus is pathetic, as is the BAB bonus. The AC bonus is handy early game, worthless late. The extra skill points are odd and are basically two (near worthless) feats. Same goes for the bonus class skill, really. The bonus spell needs a little templating to clarify if it's one extra spell for all divine spell levels or is it one extra spell for one level of one type?

    The only blessing that actually feels to be worth it is the domain ability. Everything else is either terrible or too good (I'm looking at you, +3 to spell DCs).



    Also, I'm going to agree with Glimbur on the rolling for spells per day. At first level, you're at least as effective as every other non-Focused Specialist caster. At 20th level, you're rolling 20 dice to then figure out how many spells you have. Sure, you don't have to prepare them, but it's still a nightmare to figure out what you can actually afford to do in a day.

    EDIT: Post came in while typing, so quoting this here.



    I personally would like to know how much gas I have at any given time so I don't get half-way to Chicago when my car dies.
    What about these following changes?:
    +2 to Save DC
    +1 Stat Bonus, +2 AC
    +2 BAB, +5 Speed
    +10 Skill points, +1 Class Skill

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    What about these following changes?:
    +2 to Save DC
    +1 Stat Bonus, +2 AC
    +2 BAB, +5 Speed
    +10 Skill points, +1 Class Skill
    In a class this MAD? I will always take the +1 to a Stat. Always. The other ones just aren't worth looking at.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    I wanted the class to be where you could use spells, and once you are out of spells, attack with a weapon. I see what you mean about the excess class skills though. I also did not think about this being a MT base class until you just posted it. There's no point in using the MT with this class because you would just get the same thing w/ less BAB, F/W/R. But I see what you mean.
    So, here's the rub on that. With minimal trickery, you could use the Blessed with Druid and get 2.5 sets of 9th level spells. It may not have been you're intention, but it is a definite oversight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    It's more like a car that can go one of two speeds: 10mph or 70mph.

    Honestly, rolling crappy spells/day one session is like the GM taking away the wizard's spellbook, except it's a class feature. "Your spells randomly might go away" just isn't fun.
    There is a blessing that lets you roll for SPD 2/session, but I see what you mean, which is why I am going to minimize the randomness, but still keep some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz
    In a class this MAD? I will always take the +1 to a Stat. Always. The other ones just aren't worth looking at.
    So, if the +1 to the Stat was taken away, what would go good with the AC bonus and balance out the other blessings?

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    So, here's the rub on that. With minimal trickery, you could use the Blessed with Druid and get 2.5 sets of 9th level spells. It may not have been you're intention, but it is a definite oversight.
    Could you elaborate?

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post

    I wanted the class to be where you could use spells, and once you are out of spells, attack with a weapon. I see what you mean about the excess class skills though. I also did not think about this being a MT base class until you just posted it. There's no point in using the MT with this class because you would just get the same thing w/ less BAB, F/W/R. But I see what you mean.
    Let me touch on this slightly differently than TDC up there.

    If you want a class that relies on spells first, and his weapon prowess later, look at the duskblade or war wizard (whatever its called, Complete Arcane.) A class with BAB like this isn't going to jump into melee combat when they run out of spells (a lot, because they have bad luck and roll poorly) they're going to stay away, because they can't contribute to melee combat at all, and will likely die unless they invested heavily in Con.

    So what you've created here is the most MAD class since the monk. You need all the mental stats to be halfway effective with your spells, and solid physical stats so you don't die/can contribute to melee like you're talking about.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    What about these following changes?:
    +2 to Save DC
    +1 Stat Bonus, +2 AC
    +2 BAB, +5 Speed
    +10 Skill points, +1 Class Skill
    Still needs some sort of bonus type, but as long as the save DC option doesn't stack, it's effectively going to be Greater+Regular Spell Focus for everything you cast. Dropping it down to just +1 is good enough.

    The stat bonus feels odd on a base class, but that may just be me. Having it just be +1 to a stat is probably fine. If you're going to start combining some, I would throw the speed boost (+10ft. It isn't hurting anyone.) along with the AC boost. The BAB bonus might be better suited to a retroactive change to 3/4 BAB instead, but you're still a full caster.*shrug*

    The skill bonus one is kind of the odd one out, here. The class does not feel like a skill monkey a la Bard or Beguiler. I would honestly prefer to see it dropped, with some more Blessings being created whole-cloth, probably with connections to domains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    you know what? In my personal opinion, I think you would be much better off creating two separate extremely limited spell lists for this class that are specific about what the blessed get to cast. Limiting what they can cast can justify your dream to have them also fight with weapons after they are out of their useful spells. Take the Duskblade for example. the duskblade is primarily flavored to be a melee fighter with few very specific spells to cast and stuff. what you want to do is the opposite which is make a class primarily built to cast but have few fighting capabilities as opposed to the traditional none for casters in general.
    Benedictus, Venit in Nomine, in Nomine, Domini, Hossanna in Excelsis........

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    Could you elaborate?
    Sure. Human Blessed 1/Druid2/Mystic Theurge6/Arcane Heirophant 10/Mystic Theurge +1, netting spell preparation and Sanctum Spell at first level. I may be off on how many druid levels you need for Arcane Heirophant, but the character would permanently be a bear (or something worse), casting silly amounts of buff spell and ripping people's faces off. Or casting spells. A lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    There is a blessing that lets you roll for SPD 2/session, but I see what you mean, which is why I am going to minimize the randomness, but still keep some.


    So, if the +1 to the Stat was taken away, what would go good with the AC bonus and balance out the other blessings?
    It won't matter how many times I can roll. I just wasted a blessing to lower my chances of getting screwed by my god a little bit (the earliest I can get it being level 5, so at low levels, when I NEED to be as effective as possible, I can't guarantee, or even minimize that.) I can still get totally screwed because I rolled badly, and now I go a whole play session with 1d6 + something spells twice, but it still doesn't matter much since I have fewer spells known than the sorceror who can at least cast all day without much worry.

    The flavor of the non-lawfulness still doesn't make sense. Clerics are usually out being religious, not making laws. We have an aristocrat NPC class for those kinds of people. Plus, wizards don't hate bards or warlocks, and clerics don't hate favored souls (another melee caster you should look at) why do they hate Blessed so much that they're almost constantly running away? And even if this made sense, now I have a class that barely gets spells/day, gets even fewer spells known, can barely CAST those spells since he needs to be spending all his time boosting his THREE casting stats, and is hated by some of the most common and powerful NPCs/PCs in the game! How will he get a res? Will the local wizard sell him magical items? Will the wizard party with him?
    Last edited by Hyooz; 2009-10-11 at 11:25 PM. Reason: lol flavored soul

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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    What about these following changes?:
    +2 to Save DC
    +1 Stat Bonus, +2 AC
    +2 BAB, +5 Speed
    +10 Skill points, +1 Class Skill
    They look pretty balanced with eachother. They're all pretty powerful, really. The first and last, specifically, are roughly the equivalent of two feats each. That makes the middle two rather overpowered when taken by themselves, but +2 BAB is not going to break this class. The +1 stat +2 AC one though, yeah, that's pretty huge. Way better than two feats. Honestly, splitting that up would be reasonable. I'd call +2 insight bonus to AC (that stacks with itself) equal to the first and fourth, but you might want to also toss in a goody like "Uncanny Dodge" that goes up to "Improved" if they already have it, just for good measure. The +1 inherent stat bonus could pair up with something weaker, like +3 HP or something.
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    Default Re: The Blessed [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    It won't matter how many times I can roll. I just wasted a blessing to lower my chances of getting screwed by my god a little bit (the earliest I can get it being level 5, so at low levels, when I NEED to be as effective as possible, I can't guarantee, or even minimize that.) I can still get totally screwed because I rolled badly, and now I go a whole play session with 1d6 + something spells twice, but it still doesn't matter much since I have fewer spells known than the sorceror who can at least cast all day without much worry.

    The flavor of the non-lawfulness still doesn't make sense. Clerics are usually out being religious, not making laws. We have an aristocrat NPC class for those kinds of people. Plus, wizards don't hate bards or warlocks, and clerics don't hate favored souls (another melee caster you should look at) why do they hate Blessed so much that they're almost constantly running away? And even if this made sense, now I have a class that barely gets spells/day, gets even fewer spells known, can barely CAST those spells since he needs to be spending all his time boosting his THREE casting stats, and is hated by some of the most common and powerful NPCs/PCs in the game! How will he get a res? Will the local wizard sell him magical items? Will the wizard party with him?
    I made sure that Blessed have exactly the same (more with a high Int) number of Spells Known as the Sorcerer.

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