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Thread: M&M?
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2009-10-12, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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M&M?
So recently, I was looking for a system to run modern/present day setting material in, having grown tired of D20 Modern's quirks, and one of my good friends recommended Mutants and Masterminds. It's a system that I tend to hear a lot of good about and get frequent advocations for.
I'm not too interested in M&M's primary focus of superhero games, but am interested in potentially using it for other styles of games, and I've read in numerous places that is is flexible enough for such purposes.
Typically, I used D20 Modern for games with characters at power levels similar to movie action heroes or lower, taking cues from things like Resident Evil or Silent Hill.
I was wondering what people's opinions of the system were, and if it was suitable for what I described.
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2009-10-12, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: M&M?
IT IS FREAKING AWESOME.
It's extremely flexible. I mean, christ, you can be a god damn flying toaster that shoots laser beams. AND MAKES TOAST.
Character Creation can be difficult, and it requires a DM's touch, but still. Playing is also real simple, as it uses a 1d20 for everything.
Still, it's extremely flexible. Has a great system for doing things. And it can be used for anything. So yeah, it's awesome.
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2009-10-12, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
Extended Homebrew Signature
SpoilerCoplantor's Official Second-In-Command 2.0. It's alot like being Will Riker, but still with less alien women and also pirates.
Originally Posted by Avatars
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2009-10-12, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
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2009-10-12, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
M&M is basically a d20 total conversion that fixes a LOT of the inherent problems with the d20 system, vis a vis the core rules. It's awesome, flexible, logical (within certain genre conceits), fun, true to its source, & above all, awesome. Did I mention that it's awesome? Because it's totally awesome.
Also, I was curious as to what you meant when you said that you were chased off of D20 Modern by its quirks. What quirks annoyed you? It might help to determine what kind of game would best appeal to you.
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2009-10-12, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
M&M is a very, very flexible system - I have never played a straight superhero game in it. It's bad only for typical DND-style dungeoncrawls, where the focus is on gathering treasure and magic items, and for very gritty games. Although the latter might be doable with a very low PL campaign, with guns not counting towards the PL cap.
Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
Spoiler
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2009-10-12, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: M&M?
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2009-10-12, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: M&M?
the only problem with mutants and masterminds in regards to non superhero modern games is gun are pathetically weak a decent strength (not superhuman) character can throw a boomerang harder then most guns also when you start going to low pl characters cant both use a gun and be a skilled fighter not counting guns towards the pl limit would solve both problems.
That said even though i love the system its not for everyone some pepole cant get their heads around the idea that your supposed to work with the dm to fit into the system or the complete open ended nature of a point buy system.
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2009-10-12, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-12, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: M&M?
It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.
If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).
The best answer is always to ask your DM.
Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.
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2009-10-12, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2009-10-13, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: M&M?
It's been a bit, GitP. If you're reading this, you're either digging through old stuff, or I've posted for the first time in forever.
If you want to stay in touch, reach out to me on twitter (same username).
The best answer is always to ask your DM.
Unless you're the DM, in which case you should talk to your players.
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2009-10-13, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
You can go with TriStats too.
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2009-10-13, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
Vin Diesel plays Dungeons and Dragons.
But Mutants and Masterminds plays Chuck Norris.
THAT'S how awesome it is.
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2009-10-13, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-13, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: M&M?
M&M is awesome! The core engine of the ruleset can run pretty much damn near anything. It excels at superhero games, but can be revamped into anything else, just by cutting out the stuff that doesn't fit.
I'm gearing up to run a Planescape game using this as the ruleset. Even came up with a way to do magic items that should keep things fairly balanced...
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2009-10-13, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: M&M?
The game has a serious power-balance issue that won't come up if your players are humble, but really-freaking-obvious if they are not, just like D&D.
In other words, re-read the player's sheets over and over again.Last edited by UglyPanda; 2009-10-13 at 09:08 AM.
Avatar by Serpentine
If, at any point, I write something that appears humorous, just chalk it up to your twisted imagination.Spoiler
Winnie the Pooh by Sneak.
Fishing by Dr. Bath.
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2009-10-13, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
Of course, the difference is that M&M outward states that players must make their character in cooperation with the DM, so that everyone will have characters on roughly the same power level, and it also points out most of its breakable powers. This is not a game for the "if it's printed in a book then I can take it" mentality.
Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
Spoiler
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2009-10-13, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: M&M?
Explicitly stating that the game has balance problems does not excuse it for having those problems. Just because there is a GM trying to balance the game, it does not mean that the GM will be able to balance the game nor be able to perceive everything that may happen as a result of the character's abilities.
My previous point was that the GM has to try to balance the game. The game is good, but it's not balanced well, so the GM has to work at it and figure out the system first.Last edited by UglyPanda; 2009-10-13 at 12:10 PM.
Avatar by Serpentine
If, at any point, I write something that appears humorous, just chalk it up to your twisted imagination.Spoiler
Winnie the Pooh by Sneak.
Fishing by Dr. Bath.
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2009-10-13, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: M&M?
Yeah, every game out there that's built for superheroes has this issue. It's easy to min-max if the GM isn't setting hard ground rules, or taking care to review characters.
I've found the problem gets minimized in a group that builds characters at the same time... That way they can discuss their niches, and work out how powerful they should be.
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2009-10-13, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-13, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: M&M?
Well, the winner would be hard to call.
Is the toaster secretly a robot?Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.
X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.
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2009-10-13, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
Every game that has points has this issue. The price you pay for the versatility of point-based is, generally, the possibility of very broken combos. I once broke a Tri-Stat game without meaning to or even knowing the ruleset before starting to build my character, honestly.
So M&M does require a little chat before the game, so everyone is in the same approximate power level. Otherwise, you can end up with Green Arrow and Superman in the same team, and that rarely goes well.
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2009-10-13, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-13, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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Re: M&M?
Rather than M&M, which is pretty much set up for superheroes, though it is a very flexible system, try True20. It's basically the same core system as M&M, but it's not tied to any particular setting or genre.
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2009-10-13, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: M&M?
Closest I can come to is the Fudge Superheroes chapter in the Fudge 10th anniversary edition, but there is no way that it is worth 35 bucks on its own. Of course, they have a lot of other stuff in there, so the book is.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2009-10-13, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: M&M?
Golden Heroes - but it went out of print in the 80's.
You may be able to pick up a cheap copy on eBay, or else check out the remake (Squadron UK). The remake is an amateur one-man effort, but if you can see past the incredibly low production values; the system itself is good.
Rather than a points based system, you simply roll for random powers, and then have to come up with a background rationalising them. Any you can't rationalise, you lose.
Whereas flexible points-based systems like M&M are often touted as being able to create exactly the hero you want, the problem is that in order to do that you need to know exactly what you want. Random generation like that in Golden Heroes means that people who fancy playing a superhero game but aren't all that Genre Savvy (or simply don't want to faff about with complex point systems) can generate heroes quickly and easily. Plus, as an added advantage, you don't get the same trite X-Men clones constantly being generated.Last edited by Blacky the Blackball; 2009-10-13 at 02:05 PM.
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2009-10-13, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: M&M?
Wich, ironically, D&D isn't either. The DMG explictly says that the DM should keep in check the power level of the players, and that he's free to disallow or allow any material and rules he likes or dislikes. A good chnuk of the powerfull abilities have DM clauses, like leadership, saying that it's the DM who has the last word on what cohort you actually get, and teleport has a clause wich says that any area the DM says it's a no-no, so you can't just jump in the BBEG's lair whitout going trough the portal of doom.
But what's one to do, most people just skip over those rules, and then they go to the net and spread fake stuff like the locate city bombo and solars with infinite exp to cast gate over and over again, so M&M will be no better if those kind of people decide to play it.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2009-10-13 at 02:11 PM.
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2009-10-13, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: M&M?
Ah. The old Marvel FASERIP system method.
Random rolls, better than point-buy?
"I've got... Enhanced senses, and acidic spit."
"I've got super-strength and eyestalks."
"I've got... The power cosmic."
DM: "So let's see. Toad-man, you could be killed by a stray bullet. Punching slug, you've got a little survivibility... And phoenix-jr, you can't be challenged by less than the silver surfer's villains."
Yeah, that's balanced. Don't get me wrong, I reckon it can be fun with a good DM and group, but you can say the same thing for just about any system.
And hell, you can do up a random powers list for M&M if you want. Or take the pre-made package approach... Just have people spend half their points on stats and skills, then take points equal to the other half, put together feat and power packages, and have your players draw them randomly.Last edited by Lost Demiurge; 2009-10-13 at 02:37 PM.
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2009-10-13, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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