Tricky Bard Questions.

[Alcopop]

He all! Two quick questions to throw at the forums.

Firstly, Can inspire greatness grant extra feats? as it gives you bonus HD (so say your at level 10 and it bumps you up too ECL 12 do you gain the level 12 feat temperaraly?)

Secondly, would the epic feat "Music of the Gods" effect prestige class music abilities? such as from Dirge Singer.


Cheers!

[root9125]

He all! Two quick questions to throw at the forums.

Firstly, Can inspire greatness grant extra feats? as it gives you bonus HD (so say your at level 10 and it bumps you up too ECL 12 do you gain the level 12 feat temperaraly?)

HD != levels.

Therefore I believe no. Unless it is explicitly stated. But were it, you would not be asking.

[Starbuck_II]

HD != levels.

Therefore I believe no. Unless it is explicitly stated. But were it, you would not be asking.

Feats are gained by HD not levels (just levels are usual way to gain HD for PCs).
So yes, you could gain a feat this way. I've never thought about it before.

Wow, Inspire Greatness is better than I thought.

[drengnikrafe]

Let us consider, for a moment, all perspectives.

As far as explicit rules go, it wouldn't. As far as implied rules, it could.

But let's look at from a DM's perspective. If you were DMing, would you allow your bard to grant an extra feat (and possibly an extra attribute point) for this? Maybe, maybe not.

Let's consider one last possibility. Role-playing. You gain feats because, as you practice, you learn new ways of doing things, or gain special abilities. Not because you have become stronger, but because you have become wiser (not in the mental stat sense, but in the understanding of your own abilities sense). Would a song really grant you temporary access to that knowledge, and then take it away? That's for you to decide.

[Alcopop]

As far as explicit rules go, it wouldn't.

Hrm

It implies that it does, as it give you hitdie not d10 hp +con, and it is explicitly unclear so im not sure if it wouldn't.

The ability stats that it give you 2 d10 hitdie and aswell as an (unrelated) +2 competance bonus on attack and a +1 competance bonus on fortitude. The only thing left confusingly unclear is the kind of HD gained. though it could be assumed to be your racial HD (with the only difference being the d size)

[Radar]

If Inspire Greatness would grant a floating feet it would also have to grant floating skillpoints and save bonuses per the racial HD. It seems unreasonable actually, so IMO it grants HP (using your hit die and CON bonus) not HD.

[Zaq]

If Inspire Greatness would grant a floating feet it would also have to grant floating skillpoints and save bonuses per the racial HD. It seems unreasonable actually, so IMO it grants HP (using your hit die and CON bonus) not HD.

No, it's still more valuable than what you give it credit for even if you don't let it give you a feat. There are several abilities based off of HD that get better... for example, the saves against a lot of supernatural abilities, how high your caster level can go with Practiced Spellcaster, or most importantly, how big a creature you can Wild Shape into.

[Radar]

No, it's still more valuable than what you give it credit for even if you don't let it give you a feat. There are several abilities based off of HD that get better... for example, the saves against a lot of supernatural abilities, how high your caster level can go with Practiced Spellcaster, or most importantly, how big a creature you can Wild Shape into.

Hmm... i've read through the description of the Inspire Greatness again and you're right: it does state these are HD (and that they are taken into account to spell effects and such) and stresses out, it gives apropriate HP as well. So it would probably go down to: these HD affect any spell or ability based on HD and grants HP.
Still, granting a feat and/or skill points would be even more doubtfull (as the HP bonus is the only one specifically stated).

[karnokoto]

Let's consider one last possibility. Role-playing. You gain feats because, as you practice, you learn new ways of doing things, or gain special abilities. Not because you have become stronger, but because you have become wiser (not in the mental stat sense, but in the understanding of your own abilities sense). Would a song really grant you temporary access to that knowledge, and then take it away? That's for you to decide.

Winner, imo!
If its silly, don't do it.
I think this is one thing most of us will inevitably houserule.
I would say the additional stat point makes sense, but an extra feat doesn't.
Inspire Greatness beefs you up- could definetely increase a stat point. Yours stats go into your saves & skills, and that also makes sense that bardic music would pump that stuff up.

I've always thought feats were the results of stuff you practiced and tried out during campaign downtime (like all the times your party members rest in dungeons to get back their hp). When you leveled and actually got the feat, that was symbolic of your character finally 'getting it' and then being able to utilize it in a combat or noncombat situation.

But like I said, houseruled hoooo!!

[Fitz10019]

While I agree that Inspire Greatness's HD do not give the recipient a feat...

I think Inspire Heroics (the bard's 15th level ability) would be cooler if re-written so that it grants a feat to the recipient (one he/she already qualifies for). The ally, while inspired, can do something that is normally just beyond his grasp.

[Vangor]

A creature inspired with greatness gains 2 bonus Hit Dice (d10s), the commensurate number of temporary hit points (apply the target’s Constitution modifier, if any, to these bonus Hit Dice), a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. The bonus Hit Dice count as regular Hit Dice for determining the effect of spells such as sleep.

Considering this discusses specifically what is meant by gaining two bonus Hit Dice while discussing features which are absolutely unnecessary to specify were the bonus Hit Dice to function identically to those regularly gained, I would say no.

[ericgrau]

Technically, maybe (but probably not). But normally getting feats requires some sort of training we tend to ignore. So, really, no.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

This is incredibly silly, admittedly, but, from the SRD, it seems pretty clear that feats, no matter what the source, would also give feats, skills, and everything else associated with them.

This is probably an oversight on the designers' parts, to be fair. They only took into effect the bonus HP, which are apparently temporary, for some reason.