[4e] Cursed items

[Thajocoth]

Besides artifacts of low concordance, are there any books/dragon articles with cursed items? Or rules for cursing an item?

[Mando Knight]

There's rules for neither, so far. That said, you could easily throw in some amusing curses, based off of the ones from earlier editions. The big problem with cursed items is that they're a great way to get your players mad at you, which is something that 4e developers decided was a bad thing.

[FoE]

Back in my day, there were cursed items EVERYWHERE! Cursed swords, cursed rings, even cursed brooms! You couldn't go the latrine without pissing into a cursed chamberpot. You have to wonder what sadistic sunuvabitch was spending all his goddamn time cursing these items, but you know, these were tough in those days. Not like you spoonfed crybabies today, by gum ...

I have not seen any rules for cursing items, outside of evil artifacts like the Hand and Eye of Vecna that probably shouldn't be picked up by anyone sane.

[Grynning]

4th ed has really de-emphasized anything that would make a player NOT want something (no racial ability penalties, no penalties for taking powers that don't fit your build, no non-proficiency penalties) and replaced that with a lack of bonuses for certain combinations. From an optimization standpoint of course, there's not really a difference, but from a philosophy standpoint, there is.

Anyways, for 4th ed "cursed" items, I would recommend curses that have no significant mechanical effects but may be a hindrance from an RP standpoint, (turning your skin purple, giving you a funny smell to certain races, stuff like that). You could then even use these curses on items that a player will want to use for their beneficial mechanical stats.

Anything that applies a penalty and does nothing else would be treated like a trap or skill challenge in 4th. Maybe let the arcane or divine characters make checks to remove the status effects if someone falls for it, and then maybe allow a thievery check or something to safely take the item out of whatever treasure stash it happens to be in so that they can get at the good stuff.

[Atcote]

Anyways, for 4th ed "cursed" items, I would recommend curses that have no significant mechanical effects but may be a hindrance from an RP standpoint, (turning your skin purple, giving you a funny smell to certain races, stuff like that). You could then even use these curses on items that a player will want to use for their beneficial mechanical stats.

I agree fully with Grynning here; there's nothing more boring than a cursed item that gives you... A -1/-2/-3 TO SOMETHING FOR SOME REASON! That's a minor annoyance, but with some number crunching, your players won't care that much (or they may just stop using it if the numbers don't turn out right, even if it is magically bound, where there should be a ritual to rid yourself of that). But trying to work around the fact that your rogue now smells like brimstone, or your Cleric is now incorpreal (also an advantage)? Now that's difficult. These of course can still have drawbacks in the form of stats, but that should always be a secondary problem, oft affected by the roleplaying disadvantage.

[AgentPaper]

Cursed Broach of the Grognard
No matter where you go, you are always walking in waist-deep snow. Uphill.

Or, for a ring used in one of my games a while back:

Necklace of Sarcasm
You cannot take this necklace off, though someone else can do it for you. As well, everything you say sounds sarcastic.

The party fighter got it, which was great becase his player was a drama student and part of a comedy club. It did make his challenging shouts a bit confusing, though.

For a more serious cursed item:

Goblin Warhammer
This large warhammer seems to have originally been of dwarven make, with stone faces carved into each head. However, it's goblin owners have altered it to their own tastes, and it is now held together by rusty chains, and the stone faces have been covered with skin, apparently from the face of a dwarf.
+3 Mordenkrad
Enhancement: Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d8 damage per plus
Property: Whenever you land a critical strike with this weapon, you may shift 1 square as a free action.
Power (Daily): Minor Action. You and each ally within 10 squares of
you may shift 1 square as a free action.
Curse: Any dwarf that sees this weapon will instinctively become enraged at it's bearer, and most will attack them on sight. If the bearer does not give up or destroy the weapon immediately, they will see them as a vile beast and hunt them down. Any goblins that see this weapon will instictively cower before it's bearer, and most will offer their servitude. If the bearer refuses to lead the goblins in a war against the dwarves, they will see them as a vile traitor and hunt them down.

[AllisterH]

There _IS_ a cursed item in AV1.

Basically, you make the item mechanically attractive enough but there's a drawback strong enough to temper it...TRicky, I know.

[nightwyrm]

Random cursed items are just an annoyance. Story items with curses/drawbacks (ie. artifacts), however, can be awesome.

[Atcote]

I've got a couple I may use.

Gauntlets of Calamity:

Everything interacted with by using these gauntlets causes a loud clanging noise.

Inspired by the little man in the library in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Can inspire some characters to start using their feet for mundane (or sneaky) tasks. As gauntlets, they're unlikely to be picked up and used by a wizard or rogue, but it's still annoying for anyone.

Robe of Unkind Height:

Stretches out a limb of the body two feet in length. Not the whole body - one limb. That limb will also become malleable, not unlike rubber. Appendages (like hands and feet) can still move normally.

More a complete annoyance - only doing it to one leg will immobilise a character from walking normally, but an arm or the neck (let's pretend it WOULDN'T kill you) could create some real frustration for the endeavouring roleplayer.

Of course, these are all ridicuously annoying from a roleplaying point of view, so that only makes me wonder... How hard and what methods should be used to get rid of them?

I suggest a ritual, but I'm horrible at sorting out stats for such things. Maybe different levels of curses that can be healed by more minor, lower level rituals?

[Mando Knight]

A simple Disenchant Magic Item ritual would do the job for deactivating the cursed item, generally...

[Thajocoth]

I'm thinking in terms of a trade-off type of curse... Not just a straight-up curse, and they'd still be able to decide not to use it once they know it's full effects. Items the players pick up and say "Hmm... Is this worth keeping? I'm not sure... This part's awesome, but what about that other thing?"

Thanks anyway though...

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, generic "You can't take it off/get rid of it" items are cliche and uninteresting. Cursed items should, ideally, be very useful in doing something (usually combat) but with big drawbacks outside of that area. A powerful sword that will slowly make you into an arrogant, self-righteous bastard if you use it too much, for example. You beat your enemies handidly, but drive away your friends and make enemies, which could well lead to your downfall. So, you will eventually have to choose between the power of the sword or your friends.

[Kurald Galain]

I agree fully with Grynning here; there's nothing more boring than a cursed item that gives you... A -1/-2/-3 TO SOMETHING FOR SOME REASON!

True enough, but for the same reason, a magic item that does nothing than a +X to stat Y is pretty boring.

I prefer using items with quirks and drawbacks. One of my favorite magic items was a stone that, upon command, produced a bright flash of light that blinded everyone in the vicinity for a few rounds - the obvious drawback being that "everyone" includes the party. It didn't take the players long to work around that by all closing their eyes first; they had a code word for "close your eyes now" and would shout that just before activating the item.

Other nice "curses" would be a weapon having a bad effect on the wielder when he rolls a one, or an "unlimited usage" item that does bad things if used more than twice a day.

[Guinea Anubis]

I have alwes like cursed items that was more then just -X to Y stat too.

I think one of my favorit ones was a ring of water breathing that made you slimy and smell like dead fish.

[Mando Knight]

I'm thinking in terms of a trade-off type of curse... Not just a straight-up curse, and they'd still be able to decide not to use it once they know it's full effects. Items the players pick up and say "Hmm... Is this worth keeping? I'm not sure... This part's awesome, but what about that other thing?"

Thanks anyway though...

Some standard enchantments and powers do things like that. One Divine Power feat allows Clerics to roll extra dice when healing, but cause them to become dazed when they directly harm a bloodied creature. Versatile Armor enchant has the ability to drop your AC by 1 to negate the Armor Check Penalty. Some powers deal massive damage on a hit, but always make you drop your defenses considerably or grant Combat Advantage. Something like that, but uncontrollable, would be a decent "curse."

[Mercenary Pen]

Wondering whether an item's curse might linger until the remove affliction ritual had been cast, even if the cursed item had been removed/disenchanted...

[Loxagn]

One interesting item our DM came up with was a set of +1 throwing daggers that would never hit what they were aimed at. The party rogue latched onto them, and very quickly started coming up with unbelievably awesome uses for them. Of course, the times he's botched attack rolls have screwed the party over at times, and one time he rolled a natural 1 and ended up stabbing himself and slicing off a finger.

[Thajocoth]

Base item: Battlecrazed Longsword +1 (Level 4 item)

Curse: If you're holding this weapon and do not attack with it on your turn, it deals damage to you equal to 1/2 your level.

Resulting item: Painfully Battlecrazed Longsword +1 (Level 3 item)

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Base item: Vengeful Longsword +1 (Level 5 item)

Curse: If an attack with this weapon rolls a natural one, it's weilder is dazed until the end of their next turn.

Resulting item: Dazingly Vengeful Longsword +1 (Level 4 item)

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Base item: Belt of Sacrifice (Level 7 item)

Curse: From the moment this belt is put on, and for 24 hours after it's removal, it's wearer is the opposite of their natural gender. For non-gendered wearers, this gives the wearer all physical charictaristics of both genders for the same duration.

Resulting item: Belt of Gender Sacrifice (Level 6 item)

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Base item: Vicious Longsword +2 (Level 7 item)

Curse: Damage from this weapon's crit dice is also dealt to this weapon's wielder in addition to any other targets it's dealt to.

Resulting item: Untamed Vicious Longsword +2 (Level 6 item)

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Curse removal: Disenchant magic item: Costs the difference in price.

[Tiki Snakes]

Base item: Belt of Sacrifice (Level 7 item)

Curse: From the moment this belt is put on, and for 24 hours after it's removal, it's wearer is the opposite of their natural gender. For non-gendered wearers, this gives the wearer whichever gender they least identify with (or the opposite gender of the player).

Resulting item: Belt of Gender Sacrifice (Level 6 item)

Suggestion; For Gender Ambiguous wearers, they have the main sexual characteristics of both genders instead. Bulges everywhere!

[Thajocoth]

Suggestion; For Gender Ambiguous wearers, they have the main sexual characteristics of both genders instead. Bulges everywhere!

Thanks. Fixed it. It could make for a very confused Warforged...

[Mando Knight]

Dropping the level by an amount does seem to be a good mitigation for the curse...

However, I would be careful not to put any cursed items that drop their levels below (Enchantment Bonus*5)-4, mostly because of how prices scale in 4e.

[Thajocoth]

Dropping the level by an amount does seem to be a good mitigation for the curse...

However, I would be careful not to put any cursed items that drop their levels below (Enchantment Bonus*5)-4, mostly because of how prices scale in 4e.

The level reduction is also reducing the item's worth here...

You mean cursing a flat "Magic <Item> +#"? Those are the level 5N+1 items. Well, most of them... I'm only doing 1 level drops for curses.

[Mando Knight]

You mean cursing a flat "Magic <Item> +#"? Those are the level 5N+1 items.

Actually, they're level 5N-4 items. A base +1 magic thingie is a level 1 item, a +2 magic thingie is a level 6 item, and so forth. Since the growth of the value of the items is exponential (equal to x*5^(N-1), where x is the price of the item at N=1), dropping the level by more than two or three (much less five) would break the system by allowing an item at less than half the cost for a simple drawback. You'll need to make sure the drawback is worth degrading the item's worth by that much.

[t_catt11]

Necklace of Sarcasm
You cannot take this necklace off, though someone else can do it for you. As well, everything you say sounds sarcastic.

The party fighter got it, which was great becase his player was a drama student and part of a comedy club. It did make his challenging shouts a bit confusing, though.

I love this! Very nice stuff.

Man, it seems that every time I read a 4e thread, I feel older. I thought that cursed items were part and parcel of fantasy adventuring? Something to remind you of the dangers of adventuring, and of how important the choices you made really were?

Clearly, I am out of touch with this attitude that everything should render bonuses. I'm not sure that it's a bad thing, either.

[Thajocoth]

Actually, they're level 5N-4 items. A base +1 magic thingie is a level 1 item, a +2 magic thingie is a level 6 item, and so forth. Since the growth of the value of the items is exponential (equal to x*5^(N-1), where x is the price of the item at N=1), dropping the level by more than two or three (much less five) would break the system by allowing an item at less than half the cost for a simple drawback. You'll need to make sure the drawback is worth degrading the item's worth by that much.

I was using 'N' as "any number from 0 upwards", rather than "the enhancement bonus of the item". These curses are only decreasing the value of an item by a single level, and cursing an item with only a flat bonus on it seems kinda boring to me anyway...

I love this! Very nice stuff.

Man, it seems that every time I read a 4e thread, I feel older. I thought that cursed items were part and parcel of fantasy adventuring? Something to remind you of the dangers of adventuring, and of how important the choices you made really were?

Clearly, I am out of touch with this attitude that everything should render bonuses. I'm not sure that it's a bad thing, either.

Well, an item that's only cursed, with no upside, has no reason to be used... And forcing the person to use it anyway feels like bad design to me. Weighing the pros & cons of an item, however, sounds interesting. So a cursed item still needs to render a bonus.

[Mando Knight]

I was using 'N' as "any number from 0 upwards", rather than "the enhancement bonus of the item". These curses are only decreasing the value of an item by a single level, and cursing an item with only a flat bonus on it seems kinda boring to me anyway...

What I'm trying to say is that the curse should definitely scale with the item's power. Things like Combat Advantage and Daze are usually relevant even at high levels, but taking Ongoing 5 damage isn't. Unmitigated damage equal to 5+twice enchantment bonus or 1/2 level might work, however.

[t_catt11]

Well, an item that's only cursed, with no upside, has no reason to be used... And forcing the person to use it anyway feels like bad design to me. Weighing the pros & cons of an item, however, sounds interesting. So a cursed item still needs to render a bonus.

Understand, I don't see the reason to throw cursed items into a game, willy nilly - but scattering them here or there is an especially nice way to keep player greed and hubris in check. Then again, I prefer low-magic worlds where magical items are rare and powerful, and are something to be feared. I don't care so much for settings where every 3rd level character picks his teeth with enchanted daggers.

But I'm an old codger, so feel free to ignore me. My idea of a fun setting doesn't mesh wonderfully with 4e, anyway.

[Kurald Galain]

Chaos Blade (level 4)

Power (free action, at will): when you make a melee attack with this weapon, roll 1d6 before rolling to hit. On 4-6, the opponent you hit is dazed until the end of your next turn. On a 1, you are dazed until the end of your next turn.

[Thajocoth]

Understand, I don't see the reason to throw cursed items into a game, willy nilly - but scattering them here or there is an especially nice way to keep player greed and hubris in check. Then again, I prefer low-magic worlds where magical items are rare and powerful, and are something to be feared. I don't care so much for settings where every 3rd level character picks his teeth with enchanted daggers.

But I'm an old codger, so feel free to ignore me. My idea of a fun setting doesn't mesh wonderfully with 4e, anyway.

Actually, there are rules in the DMG2 for using "inherent bonuses" as the character's level to offset a lack of magic items in a low-magic world. (And the char builder has a checkbox to use these inherent bonuses.)

[t_catt11]

Actually, there are rules in the DMG2 for using "inherent bonuses" as the character's level to offset a lack of magic items in a low-magic world. (And the char builder has a checkbox to use these inherent bonuses.)

So I have seen. I am careful when making 4e comments, though... if I state that I don't like something (like the widespread view that you need tons o magic to play), I get branded a heritic, idiot, or worse. :)