3.5 Rogue Sorcerer

[DareTheRogue]

I am working on a odd build that seems to work out in the long run but I am not so sure, I would appreciate any input.

So here it goes:

Progression:
1 Rogue
2 Sorcerer
3 Sorcerer
4 Sorcerer
5 Sorcerer
6 Unseen Seer
7 Unseen Seer
8 Arcane Trickster
9 Arcane Trickster
10 Aracne Tricster
11 Argent Savant
12 Abjurant Champion
13 Argent Savant
14 Abjurant Champion
15 Argent Savant
16 Abjurant Champion
17 Argent Savant
18 Abjurant Champion
19 Argent Savant
20 Abjurant Champion

Feats:
Lvl1: Improved Initiative (PHB)
Lvl3: Still Spell (PHB)
Lvl6: Combat Casting (PHB)
Lvl7 bonus: Silent Spell
Lvl9: Blade of Force (CompMage)
Lvl12: Invisible Needle (CompMage)
Lvl15: Rapid Metamagic (CompMage)
Lvl18: Quicken Spell (PHB)

Spells: Are primarily all force descriptor, I have a spell list hashed out somewhere that I really like.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Blade of Force and Invisible Needle are not good feats.

[Myrmex]

Blade of Force and Invisible Needle are not good feats.

It's cheap, easy sneak attack, though.

[Curmudgeon]

If you want sneak attack, you want Craven: it's +1 point of damage per character level on all sneak attack. (Gets multiplied on critical hits, too.)

[JellyPooga]

When you said Rogue Sorcerer, I thought you meant some kind of rebel, sticking it to the man and fighting the system with arcane might...ah well...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A better way would be:

Rogue1/Sorcerer4/Spellthief1/Unseen Seer 2/AT10/Archmage2

No clue why you want to bother with Argent Savant or AbChamp...

This build has 8d6 SA, 9th level spells, can pick up the ability to cast in light armor with no ACF as a feat (Master Spellthief), the ability to do so in Medium Armor with another feat (meaning Mithral Full Plate), and the ability to steal spells, which progresses with Master Spellthief.

Your build seems to revolve around doing a mediocre amount of force damage, and I can't see any purpose to it.

[Eldariel]

I'd probably go with Rogue 1/Sorcerer 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarp Sniper 5 simply because while Unseen Seer does get 1d6 less SA, Divination Spell Power makes up for it. Now, obviously you need Practiced Spellcaster (if only to maximize your CL, and it doesn't hurt that it negates the drawback of DSP too), but the good news is: You cast Divination spells at +3 CL.

And you have Advanced Learning which enables you to learn Hunter's Eye [PHBII]. Now you can turbocharge your Sneak Attack (and Sudden Strike from Spellwarp Sniper, which is about the same). By default, you'll have +7d6 SA/SS.

Then you cast Hunter's Eye at CL...30 or so (23 default, 24 Ioun Stone, 25 Tattoo, 26 Ring of Arcane Power, 30 UMDd [Sorcerer with Rogue skills] Beads of Karma). And Persist it 'cause it's a level 2 spell and you can easily Persist it the hard way. This gives you +10d6 extra SA placing you at +17d6. You can also persist Guided Shot and Sniper's Shot, pick up some Long Rays and profit. If you care, you can try for some source of Divine Power (say, Arcane Disciple; Quicken it at your 8th level slots or pick some metamagic reducer like Metamagic School Focus to Persist it at 9th level slot) and do fine in oldfashioned archery; all you need is Heroics for Rapid Shot.

You are also a Sorcerer and a Spellwarp Sniper giving you Wings of Flurry no-save Daze that's eligible for SA. And every other area spell of 5th level or lower.


If armor is a clutch point, Rogue could become Spellthief, but I find the extra skillpoints, particularly for a Sorcerer base, to be worth much, much more.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd probably go with Rogue 1/Sorcerer 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarp Sniper 5 simply because while Unseen Seer does get 1d6 less UMD, Divination Spell Power makes up for it. Now, obviously you need Practiced Spellcaster (if only to maximize your CL, and it doesn't hurt that it negates the drawback of DSP too), but the good news is: You cast Divination spells at +3 CL.

And blow yet another feat in an already feat-starved build, simply to negate disadvantages... no thanks.

And you have Advanced Learning which enables you to learn Hunter's Eye [PHBII]. Now you can turbocharge your Sneak Attack (and Sudden Strike from Spellwarp Sniper, which is about the same). By default, you'll have +7d6 SA/SS.

Umm... you get that anyways with my build.

Then you cast Hunter's Eye at CL...30 or so (23 default, 24 Ioun Stone, 25 Tattoo, 26 Ring of Arcane Power, 30 UMDd [Sorcerer with Rogue skills] Beads of Karma). And Persist it 'cause it's a level 2 spell and you can easily Persist it the hard way. This gives you +10d6 extra SA placing you at +17d6. You can also persist Guided Shot and Sniper's Shot, pick up some Long Rays and profit. If you care, you can try for some source of Divine Power (say, Arcane Disciple; Quicken it at your 8th level slots) and do fine in oldfashioned archery; all you need is Heroics for Rapid Shot.

Again, which you can do with my build. CL 27 vs CL 30 is not going to break the bank.

You are also a Sorcerer and a Spellwarp Sniper giving you Wings of Flurry no-save Daze that's eligible for SA. And every other area spell of 5th level or lower.

That might be something to consider, although it doesn't need all five levels to do it with Wings of Flurry. Replace Archmage with Spellwarp sniper.

If armor is a clutch point, Rogue could become Spellthief, but I find the extra skillpoints, particularly for a Sorcerer base, to be worth much, much more.

Umm... there seems to be a confusion. How is getting Spellthief *fewer* skill points than not getting it? My build has a level in both rogue and spellthief. It actually ends up with *MORE* skill points than your build does. So how is this a bad thing?

[Eldariel]

And blow yet another feat in an already feat-starved build, simply to negate disadvantages... no thanks.

You already are CL behind from Rogue so it's more than just negating disadvantages; your particular build is 2 CLs behind. Unless you're a Krau-sigil Illumian, I don't see how you'd afford skipping that (and being a Human instead buys you the feat for Practiced Spellcaster to same effect; more skill points too). Master Spellthief gets that 1 CL back, but is a feat that you coulda spent on Practiced Spellcaster instead in, as you said, a feat-starved build. I don't think the build can fit Master Spellthief either way.

Again, which you can do with my build. CL 27 vs CL 30 is not going to break the bank.

It simply means same SA. Also, two extra Advanced Learnings and more skillpoints are nice.

That might be something to consider, although it doesn't need all five levels to do it with Wings of Flurry. Replace Archmage with Spellwarp sniper.

4 levels are needed; I didn't find any decent fillers for the last level so I went all the way. Archmage...two feats on Spell Foci that aren't otherwise used seem like too much. Mindbender could possibly be worth it, but affording Mindsight...

Umm... there seems to be a confusion. How is getting Spellthief *fewer* skill points than not getting it? My build has a level in both rogue and spellthief. It actually ends up with *MORE* skill points than your build does. So how is this a bad thing?

I didn't compare our builds, I simply compared the build I suggested with either Rogue first or Spellthief first. I'm of the "Don't lose caster levels"-school of thought, so I didn't really consider the idea of taking another non-caster level (though it's worth noting that thanks to extra Unseen Seer-levels and no wasted ranks for Arcane Trickster-qualifications, my build does end up with vastly larger number of skill points).


EDIT: I just noticed that I had my brain somehow crosswired and typed "CL" over "SA" at one point, didn't explain what I meant by saying "no feats for Archmage" and so on, so I rewrote the whole fcking post...

EDIT#2: Feat suggestions:
Human
1. Extend Spell, Able Learner
3. Practiced Spellcaster
6. Rapid Metamagic
7B. Silent Spell
9. Quicken Spell
12. Persistent Spell
15. Point Blank Shot
18B. Precise Shot
18. Free Feat

Able Learner obviously not strictly necessary, but very useful for hitting the skill requirements on 6. Dropping it would enable fitting Arcane Disciple: War and Metamagic School Focus: Evocation.