[D&D 3.5] 1 Creature, 3 Curses, many problems

[Johel]

Bestow Curse

You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

• -6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
• -4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.
• Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

Question 1 :
If a wizard craft a wand/scroll of Bestow Curse, must he specify the type of curse once and for all during the crafting ? Or can he choose it each time he use the wand/scroll ?

Question 2 :
If a wizard prepare 3 "Bestow Curse" spells for the day and cast them all on the same creature, can he apply all the effects ? Or does only one curse apply ?

Question 2a :
If only one curse apply, which one ? The more recently casted ? The first casted ?

Question 2b :
If all curses apply, is it possible to define something along the line of "-6 in Constitution" and "-4 attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks", so that the target, compared to his previous state, get to roll -7 on his Fortitude saves ?

[Johel]

bump.......

[Sinfire Titan]

Bestow Curse


Question 1 :
If a wizard craft a wand/scroll of Bestow Curse, must he specify the type of curse once and for all during the crafting ? Or can he choose it each time he use the wand/scroll ?

As with all modular spells (Protection from X, Magic Circle Against X, etc), the version is chosen at the time of casting. When in item form, only potions have to be pre-set.

Question 2 :
If a wizard prepare 3 "Bestow Curse" spells for the day and cast them all on the same creature, can he apply all the effects ? Or does only one curse apply ?

Different effects, same spell. Each casting would apply because they are separate effects.

Question 2b :
If all curses apply, is it possible to define something along the line of "-6 in Constitution" and "-4 attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks", so that the target, compared to his previous state, get to roll -7 on his Fortitude saves ?

Yes.

[Master_Rahl22]

The 50% chance to do nothing is by far the best use of Bestow Curse. At high enough levels, the other 2 applications can be shrugged off, but that chance to do nothing can help you take down stuff that would normally be waaaaay too high level for you since you're only fighting 50% of the monster.

[Johel]

Thank you for the answers.
And thank you for the hint about the 50%

[KillianHawkeye]

You place a curse on the subject. Choose one of the following three effects.

•-6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).
•-4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks.
•Each turn, the target has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action.

You can actually cast this at least 8 times on a single target for stacking results (putting a -6 on ALL SIX of their ability scores, the -4 penalty, and the 50% chance to act). Beyond that, you have to start coming up with your own curses if you want to keep cursing someone.

Also, since the duration is permanent (or until removed, anyway), you don't need to cast them all on the same day.

[industrious]

I remember there being a list of WOTC-approved curses in addition to the three given. Anyone know where to find it?

[Claudius Maximus]

There are a bunch in the Book of Vile Darkness.

[Douglas]

Only one curse can apply at a time.

Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

[industrious]

thanks...wow bestow curse is powerful.

[Kylarra]

pfft, "I curse myself with godlike intelligence." "I curse myself with incredible wisdom." "I curse myself with the strength of a giant." "I curse myself with +4 to attack/saves/skill checks...(etc etc)

(+6 to a stat is of a similar power level to -6 to a stat, no?)

Sure, if you're giving it to an opponent.

[Forbiddenwar]

pfft, "I curse myself with godlike intelligence." "I curse myself with incredible wisdom." "I curse myself with the strength of a giant." "I curse myself with +4 to attack/saves/skill checks...(etc etc)

(+6 to a stat is of a similar power level to -6 to a stat, no?)

You may want to duck when the DM throws books at you.

On this topic, is there or can there be a Greater Bestow curse spell? granting a -12 or more to one ability? And if a wizard is cursed with a -6 to Int, will he lose the ability to cast his highest 6 spell slots. Isn't this an effective use of bestow curse? (Same for all spell casters targeting the relevant ability) It is a low level spell.

[Forbiddenwar]

Okay, so Bestow greater curse can reduce 1 ability score to 1. If a wizard has an intellegence of 30, in part from a headband of intellect +6, after being cursed will his Intellegence score be -5 (+6 from headband=1) or 1 (totaling in 7)? Either way, permanent loss of spell casting ability is a b****.

[Draken]

Okay, so Bestow greater curse can reduce 1 ability score to 1. If a wizard has an intellegence of 30, in part from a headband of intellect +6, after being cursed will his Intellegence score be -5 (+6 from headband=1) or 1 (totaling in 7)? Either way, permanent loss of spell casting ability is a b****.

Feeblemind is lower level and applies a penalty to saves on Arcane casters.

Saying you can use a spell meant to apply penaltiesto gain bonuses is sort of a stretch.

[Sinfire Titan]

Only one curse can apply at a time.

Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

That's BS. If that's how it works, then how do you rule multiple castings of Resist Energy (which clearly stack)? That rule was made for the old versions of the Bull's Strength line, which grant 1d4+1 enhancement bonus to the stat. It says varying, as in the caster has no control over the results of the spell.

[kamikasei]

That rule was made for the old versions of the Bull's Strength line, which grant 1d4+1 enhancement bonus to the stat. It says varying, as in the caster has no control over the results of the spell.

I would note that the rule douglas quotes says "usually the last spell in the series trumps the others..." That's not a very strongly-worded statement and fits in well with a reading of "usually... because most such spells apply non-stacking bonuses".

Forbiddenwar, as far as I know you can't drain away bonuses granted from items; if there's a minimum then that's the minimum to which you can drain the creature's own score, so for someone wearing a headband of intellect +6 the lowest you can curse their intellect would be 7. I'm not sure if this is stated explicitly anywhere, though.

[Kylarra]

The example in the PHB for that rule is the polymorph series actually. Bull's strength is covered by

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths

In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.