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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    Paragon

    Although there are many in the world who seek physical strength, all creatures have mechanical limits as to what we can and cannot do. To strain the body beyond that point would quickly destroy it, shredding muscles, shattering bones, and ripping sinews.
    There are a few, however, who have managed to pass these mechanical limits. From what little is known about them, it seems that they have bypassed multiple limits simultaneously, letting their body continually heal the damage that it does to itself as it works. The bodies of these few individuals are pushed to the very limits of what is mortally possible. They can grapple with titans, run across water, and even balance on clouds.
    Alas, the physical demands upon the bodies of these few is more than any being can withstand. Although their body does not permit itself to weaken for long, the constant use of energy greatly reduces the creature’s lifespan. Such is the gift and curse of these few paragons.
    Adventures: Why paragons choose to adventure is largely dependant on how they view their limited lifespan (or they are even aware of it). Those who are unaware of their limited lives tend to assume the opposite due to their unaging appearance. Such paragons live closer to conventional lives and tend to live for the long-term, sealing alliances, slowly building businesses, and the like. Those aware of their shortened lifespan are more inclined to live for the short-term, seeing an adventurer’s life as a full and interesting one, not to mention an opportunity to make some quick coin. However, such paragons are also most likely to build a reputation for themselves, trying to leave whatever legacy they can.
    Alignment: Many paragons who know of their impending deaths become brash and impatient, leaning towards a chaotic bent. Those who are unaware of their fate, however, are more inclined towards neutrality and law. Along the axis of good and evil, there are about equal numbers of paragons. Some are more benevolent and generous in their lives while others are selfish and lash out at others.
    Religion: Paragons, as a whole, are a surprisingly religious. Those aware of their limited lives often aim for a better existence in the afterlife. Those who are blissfully unaware, however, often think of their “gift” as some form of divine blessing. Both groups of paragons often pray to deities related to strength or battle, with Kord being the most popular option.
    Background: There are a number of ways that a creature can become a paragon. There are a couple of old arcane rituals designed specifically to do so, although most of them are hidden away or are long forgotten. There are also a few training routines that claim to press creatures beyond their limits, although their success rate is far from one hundred percent. Perhaps most often, a creature breaks the limits of their bodies either to save themselves or a loved one from great physical harm. There are also a couple reports of paragons who were pressed beyond the edge by purely emotional stimuli, although these claims may be false.
    There are no special schools or tutors that teach paragons and most paragons have no desire to be taught, or even to train. While most combatants must train to improve their skills in combat, paragons are different. When in danger, they call upon their inner strength to meet the threat as they see fit. As they continue fighting and drawing upon this energy, they eventually learn how to draw forth more energy. In this way, traditional training beyond basic weapon and armor training is often ignored by paragons.
    Race: Potentially, any intelligent creature can become a paragon. As most paragons are made from creatures in danger, a lot has to do with what a race deals with. Halflings, given their racial luck, are rarely put into situations that result in becoming paragons. There are a decent number of dwarven paragons, mostly resulting from cave-ins. Humans often disregard their own safety for wealth and glory and thus produce quite a few paragons. Not surprisingly, creatures forced to live at the fringe of society, or in more primal societies, such as orcs, goblins, mongrelfolk, kobolds, half-orcs, and goliaths, provide more paragons than any other race. One last race of particular note are hellbred, many of which behave as if they possess a death wish.
    Other classes: Most front-line combatants find paragons to be condescending show-offs but grudgingly admit that they have much to contribute. Paragons often prefer their own style of combat but secretly envy the consistency (and long lives) that other combatants possess. Paragons feel particular empathy towards barbarians, other beings who can press themselves beyond their normal limits, if with more limitations. Casters treat paragons as they would any combatant but keep in mind that they are only useful for as long as they can maintain their surges of power.
    Role: All paragons are combatants although how they fight depends on their chosen physical attribute and on how they use their surges of power. A paragon may be a grappler on one round and a skilled archer on the next, depending on how they use their powers. However, all paragons must remember to have an exit plan in the offhand chance that they run out of surge points.
    Adaptation: It is easy to state that there are some beings who are simply born paragons. Perhaps the ruling class in a given country is made up of paragons due to an ancient pact, a rite of passage, or by simple fate. In a futuristic setting, this class can easily imitate the feel of an android (ala do androids dream of electric sheep). Some of the abilities below are provided with variants that allow creatures without working metabolisms to play as paragons.
    Starting Wealth: 4d4x10 gp
    Hit Dice: d12

    The Paragon
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Surge Points

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Improved Unarmed Strike, Paragon’s Resolve, Perfection’s Curse, Surge of Power, Triumphs|
    25

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Desperate Surge, Rapid Recovery|
    50

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Maintenance of Health|
    75

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Perfection of Form +1|
    100

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Favored Triumph (1)|
    125

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Endless Vigor|
    150

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Unorthodox Defense|
    175

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Perfection of Form +2|
    200

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Favored Triumph (2)|
    225

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Greater Desperate Surge|
    250

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Improved Maintenance of Health|
    275

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Perfection of Form +3|
    300

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Favored Triumph (3)|
    325

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |Endless Vigor|
    350

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Perfected Strike|
    375

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Perfection of Form +4|
    400

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |Favored Triumph (4)|
    425

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Superior Desperate Surge|
    450

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Perfection of Health|
    475

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |Perfection of Form +5|
    500
    [/table]
    Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Balance, Climb, Concentration, Escape Artist, Jump, Listen, Ride, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble

    Class Features:
    The following are all class features of the paragon.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and with five martial weapons of their choice. They also possess proficiency with light armor but not with shields.

    Surge of Power (Ex): As a paragon, you have the ability to press yourself beyond your normal limitations. This is represented by a pool of surge points, the size of which depends on your class level as shown on the table above.
    At first level, choose one of your physical ability scores. You cannot spend more than ([chosen ability’s modifier + class level] x 2, minimum class level x 2) surge points on a single surge of power. For the purpose of this class feature, ignore all enhancement bonuses to the chosen ability score (such as those provided by this ability) when calculating its modifier.
    When using a surge of power, you spend points to activate one or more abilities called triumphs and/or gain an enhancement bonus to one or more of your physical ability scores. It costs 1 perfection point for each point that you wish to raise your chosen ability score and 2 surge points for each point that you wish to raise another physical ability score. The cost for triumphs is listed under their descriptions below. However you use this ability, it lasts for 1 round. However, you can extend its duration by spending 2 surge points per additional round (this is included into the price of the surge for the purpose of your limits). Multiple activations of a single triumph do not stack with themselves (a newer activation suppresses the effects of an older one, even if the newer one has a lesser effect). Although an increase to Constitution increases your health as normal, these hit points go away at the end of the surge of power and are not lost first like temporary hit points.
    Whenever a surge of power ends, you become fatigued for 5 minutes. If already fatigued, you instead become exhausted for 5 minutes. If already exhausted, you fall unconscious for 5 minutes unless you pay points equal to twice your class level. As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you can spend surge points equal to your class level to eliminate fatigue or reduce exhaustion to fatigue (regardless of how you became fatigued or exhausted). Fatigue and exhaustion gained through this ability cannot be cured via any other means.
    Although a surge of power takes but a moment to start, you can activate more than one almost simultaneously, taking considerably more effort on your part. The first time that you use a surge of power in a given round, it is a free action. You can use a second surge as a swift action, a third surge as a move action, and a fourth surge as a standard action. It is not possible to use more than four surges of power in a single round. Using a surge of power does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
    As a free action, you may end an active surge of power prematurely, suffering the normal consequences but regaining 1 point per full round of duration remaining (you regain no points if it is ended on the last round of its duration).
    To refresh your supply of surge points, you must gain 8 hours of sleep or rest. At any given time, you may benefit from a number of surges of power up to the ability modifier of your chosen ability (minimum 1). Any surges of power past this point erase the effects of the oldest one active, as if it had been dismissed early.
    You may not use a surge of power in medium or heavy armor.

    Note: Tireless Paragons
    Spoiler
    Show
    If a paragon is immune to fatigue and/or exhaustion for some reason (such as being a construct or undead), they instead take damage equal to their class level at the end of each surge. Such damage cannot be healed magically or through the paragon’s second wind triumph for 5 minutes.


    Triumphs: Using your sudden surges of power and vitality, you can achieve a variety of effects. These effects are collectively known as triumphs, victories your body has won over its normal boundaries. When paying for a surge of power, you can activate however many triumphs you can pay the price for. Many increase with power if you spend more surge points on them.

    List of Triumphs
    Spoiler
    Show
    Acrobatic Mastery: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Tumble checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. You may move at full speed without penalty while Tumbling if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. You can disregard any modifications to the Tumble DC due to the environment if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability.

    Aquatic Combat: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Swim checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. If you spend at least 4 surge points on this ability, you can hold your breath for one additional round per 2 surge points spent. You do not double your armor check penalty on swim checks if you spend at least 8 surge points on this ability. You gain a swim speed equal to your land speed if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability.

    Avoid Harm: For the surge of power’s duration, you receive a +1 bonus to your AC for every 4 surge points that you spend on this ability.

    Bolster Vitality: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain temporary hit points equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability.

    Damage Reduction: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain DR 1/- for every 6 points that you spend on this ability.

    Deadly Strike: For the surge of power’s duration, increase the threat range of all weapons that you wield by 1 per 10 surge points you spend on this ability. This ability stacks with abilities like the keen weapon ability or the improved critical feat but isn’t doubled by such abilities.

    Deny Magic: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain spell resistance equal to your class level if you spend at least one perfection point on this ability. For every 5 points that you spend on this ability, raise your spell resistance by 1.

    Disregard Armor: For the surge of power’s duration, you can ignore up to 1 point of an attacked target’s armor or natural armor per 7 surge points you spend on this ability. If the attacked target possesses armor and natural armor, you affect armor first.

    Disruptive Stance: For the surge of power’s duration, the DC of Tumble checks to move past squares threatened by you and of Concentration checks made to cast defensively while threatened by you gain a +1 bonus per 2 surge points that you spend on this ability.

    Fast Blade: For the surge of power’s duration, you can make an extra attack at your full base attack bonus when you make a full attack for every 15 points that you spend on this ability.

    Fated Surge: For the surge of power’s duration, you can take 5 on the first d20 roll you make each round if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. For every 10 surge points that you spend on this ability, increase the result of the roll by +1. For every 20 surge points that you spend on this ability, its effects extend to an additional d20 roll made that round.

    Focused Surge: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Concentration checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. If you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability, you can maintain this Surge of power past the normal end of this duration so long as you spend a standard action and make a successful Concentration check (DC 15 + 1 per previous success) on each round after the duration would normally have ended. One failed roll results in the end of this Surge of power.

    Graceful Fall: For the surge of power’s duration, you treat all falls as being 10 feet shorter for every 5 surge points that you spend on this ability.

    Harrowing Strike: For the surge of power’s duration, you can ignore up to 1 point of hardness or damage reduction with your attacks per 6 surge points you spend on this ability.

    Heightened Resistance: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a +1 enhancement bonus to all of your saving throws per 5 surge points you spend on this ability.

    Incredible Speed: For the surge of power’s duration, your speed for all modes of movement receives a +5 enhancement bonus per 2 surge points that you spend on this ability.

    Leap for the Heavens: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Jump checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. You take no penalty for jumping without a running start if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. The maximum vertical height that you reach with a jump check is multiplied by x4 if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability.

    Master Climber: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Climb checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. You do not lose your dexterity bonus to your AC while climbing if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. You gain a climb speed equal to your land speed if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability.

    Nearly Impossible: For the surge of power’s duration, you can make use of epic uses for Strength-, Dexterity-, and Constitution-based skill checks if you spend at least 20 points on this ability.

    Perfect Equilibrium: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Balance checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. You are not flat-footed while balancing and may move at your full speed without penalty if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. You can cross semi-solid surfaces (such as quicksand) with a DC 25 balance check and liquids with a DC 30 balance check if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability. If you stop movement on such a surface, you instantly sink in.

    Perfected Senses: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain low-light vision if you spend at least 1 perfection point on this ability (you gain superior low-light vision if you already possessed low-light vision). For every 2 points that you spend on this ability, you gain darkvision out to 10 feet (or the range of your darkvision is extended by 10 feet). For every 4 points that you spend on this ability, you gain blindsense out to 5 feet. If you spend at least 20 points on this ability, you can pinpoint invisible creatures with whom you possess a line of sight, although they still gain complete concealment against your attacks.

    Quickness: For the surge of power’s duration, you can take a single extra move action each round for every 20 surge points that you spend on this ability. On each round that this triumph lasts, you may surrender two move actions given to you by this triumph to take an extra standard action instead.

    Ranged Assault: For the surge of power’s duration, you can make melee attacks against creatures up to 5 feet beyond your reach per 8 surge points you spend on this ability. This does not extend the area that you threaten, however.

    Resist the Elements: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain energy resistance against an element of your choice equal to half the number of surge points that you spend on this ability. For every 20 points you spend on this ability, you gain an equal amount of energy resistance against another element of your choice.

    Second Wind: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain fast healing 1 for every 4 surge points that you spend on this ability. If you spend at least 15 points on this ability, your body purges itself of all diseases (magical or mundane) and becomes immune to disease for the Surge of power’s duration. If you spend at least 30 surge points on this ability, your body is purged of all poison and becomes immune to poison for the Surge of power’s duration.

    Talented Surge: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain access to one bonus fighter feat for which you meet all prerequisites if you spend at least 3 surge points on this ability. You can gain access to more than one feat in this way but each one beyond the first increases the price by a cumulative 3 points (9 points to get 2 feats, 18 to get 3, 30 to get 4, etc). For the purpose of prerequisites, your BAB and Fighter level both equal your class level.

    Titan’s Power: For the surge of power’s duration, you are treated as being one size category large for several purposes if you spend at least 15 surge points on this ability. You may wield weapons one size category larger without more effort, deal damage with your unarmed strike as if larger, increase your carrying capacity, and make special maneuvers in combat (such as grapple and bull rush checks) as if one size category larger. For every additional 15 surge points you spend on this ability, you are treated as being an additional size category large for these purposes (up to a maximum of colossal).

    Uncatchable: For the surge of power’s duration, you gain a bonus to all Escape Artist checks equal to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. You may squeeze through areas as if one size category smaller if you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability. You can escape from bindings such as manacles as a full-round action if you spend at least 10 surge points on this ability.

    Unorthodox Charge: For the surge of power’s duration, when you make a charge attack, you may make up to one 90-degree turn for every 9 surge points you spend on this ability. If you spend at least 15 surge points on this ability, you gain the acrobatic charge ability as a duelist. If you spend at least 30 surge points on this ability, you gain the pounce ability, allowing you to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

    Unstoppable: For the surge of power’s duration, you can ignore a number of squares of difficult terrain up to the number of surge points you spend on this ability. If you spend at least 5 surge points on this ability, you can automatically free yourself from entangling items and abilities such as nets, tanglefoot bags, and the entangle spell as a standard action.


    Paragon’s Resolve (Ex): So long as a paragon has strength left in their bodies, their resolve holds strong. You add your Strength modifier to your Will saves in place of your Wisdom modifier.

    Improved Unarmed Strike: A paragon can use their body just as effectively as any weapon they wield. You gain improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat.

    Perfection’s Curse (Ex): A paragon’s body is pressed to the limits of its ability almost constantly, never allowing itself to become weakened. As a result, a paragon’s body is slowly torn apart as it is strained further and further. You must eat and drink twice as much to avoid starvation and thirst. Furthermore, your maximum lifespan is halved but you never leave your current age category.

    Note: Eternal Paragons
    Spoiler
    Show
    If a paragon would normally be immortal, its body only lasts for 10d% years after gaining its first class level. Similarly, if a paragon gains immortality, it only delays its demise for 10d% years.


    Desperate Surge (Ex): A paragon’s body refuses to run out of strength in combat. When in danger, their body automatically siphons off more energy from vital functions elsewhere. Starting at 2nd level, whenever you take damage equal to or greater than the number of remaining surge points you possess, you take extra damage equal to your base attack bonus and gain an equal amount of desperation points.
    Desperation points can be spent interchangeably with surge points but surges of power paid for with any number of such points can’t have their duration extended at all. Desperation points only last for a single round.

    Rapid Recovery (Ex): A paragon’s body restores itself far faster than most other creatures, forcing itself into peak physical condition. Starting at 2nd level, you heal naturally at twice your normal rate. However, as your body is always working at maximum efficiency, you gain no additional benefits from bed rest or Heal checks.

    Maintenance of Health (Ex): A paragon’s body is trained to keep itself in perfect working order. Should something occur, their body will draw upon their reserves of strength to correct it, whether they like it or not. Starting at 3rd level, if you are sickened at the start of a round, you automatically spend surge points equal to your class level at the start of each turn if able and are cured of the condition as a free action. If you are nauseated, you automatically spend surge points equal to your class level at the start of your turn if able and the condition is reduced to sickened. So long as you possess ability damage, you automatically spend surge points equal to your class level at the start of each round if able and are healed of one point of ability damage to a damaged ability score of your choice.
    If you cannot pay for one of these abilities, it does not occur. If you cannot afford all abilities that would activate in this way (or due to Improved Maintenance of Health), you choose which ones activate.

    Perfection of Form: A paragon slowly becomes a creature of perfection, a living representation of their chosen physical attribute. At 4th level and every 4 levels afterwards, you gain a +1 inherent bonus to your chosen ability score. These bonuses stack with each other, up to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

    Favored Triumph (Ex): As a paragon develops their talents, they learn how to perform certain triumphs with unparalleled skill. Starting at 5th level, whenever you refresh your supply of surge points, you may declare any talent to become a favored triumph until you next refresh your supply of surge points. When you spend surge points on a favored triumph, you benefit as if you had spent half-again as many points (rounded down).
    Starting at 9th level, you gain access to second favored triumph that is also reselected when you refresh your surge points. You gain access to a third favored triumph at 13th level and to a fourth at 17th level. You may not select a single triumph to become a favored triumph more than once at any given time.

    Endless Vigor (Ex): As a paragon becomes better at accessing their power, they become better equipped to keep themselves from tiring in combat. Starting at 6th level, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when removing your fatigue or relieving your exhaustion.
    Starting at 14th level, you may remove your fatigue or relieve your exhaustion as a free action instead of as a full-round action.

    Note: Tireless Paragons
    Spoiler
    Show
    paragons who are immune to fatigue and/or exhaustion gain an altered version of this ability. They take only half damage from their surges starting at 6th level and only 1/4 starting at 14th level. All such damage is rounded up.


    Unorthodox Defense (Ex): Whether a paragon tries to slip out of mental snares, bear the brunt of fireballs, or mentally endure the trials of poison, a paragon quickly learns how to defend themselves from most attacks using their greatest strengths. Starting at 7th level, whenever you make a saving throw, you may spend surge points equal to your class level to add your chosen ability score’s modifier to the result. This requires no action but can only be done once per saving throw.

    Greater Desperate Surge (Ex): A gradually Paragon improves their ability to draw upon deep reserves of power. Starting at 10th level, if you are at half or your maximum hit points or less after an attack that triggers your desperate surge class feature, double the amount of desperation points you receive.

    Improved Maintenance of Health (Ex): As a paragon becomes more powerful, their body becomes better able to correct problems as they arise. Starting at 11th level, so long as you possess ability drain, you automatically pay surge points equal to your class level at the start of each round if able and heal one point of ability drain to a drained ability score of your choice. So long as you possess at least one negative level, you automatically pay surge points equal to twice your class level at the start of each round if able and remove one negative level.
    If you are unable to pay for one of these abilities, it does not occur. If you cannot afford all abilities that would activate in this way (or due to Maintenance of Health), you choose which ones activate.

    Perfected Strike (Ex): A Paragon’s fighting style adapts to match their chosen ability score over time. As a result, they can use their style to make particularly successful attacks. Starting at 15th level, whenever you make an attack roll, you may spend 15 surge points to add your chosen ability score’s modifier to the result. This requires no action but can only be done once per attack roll.

    Superior Desperate Surge (Ex): Eventually, a paragon learns how to maintain the power that they are granted in times of duress. Starting at 18th level, whenever you spend desperation points on a surge of power, you may extend its duration at the cost of 10 points per round after the first.

    Perfection of Health (Ex): As a paragon reaches the peak of their power, their body can fight off almost any effect. Starting at 19th level, whenever you are targeted by a death effect or by a magical effect with duration other than instantaneous (other than harmless spells), you automatically spend the maximum number of surge points that you can spend at one time if able and negate the effect (if such an effect possesses multiple targets, other targets are still affected normally).
    If you cannot pay for this ability, it does not occur.

    Paragons and multi-classing: Any character has the potential to become a paragon under the proper circumstances. Whenever a paragon take a level in another classes, however, their supply of surge points is reduced by 50 (minimum 0). Because they haven’t been deepening the power they can access with their surges of power, training as another class closes the gap between their current power and maximum potential.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2007

    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    An explanation about the class:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Okay, I just tried to come up with something clever and artistic to say about this class for about an hour and came up with nothing. I guess that just leaves me to say whatever comes to mind.
    When I first envisioned this class in my head, it was basically a wimp that spent points to bump its physical ability scores through the roof, thus overcoming its inherent wimpiness. I imagined that it would have the feel of a martial spellcaster down to a tee as when you run out of points, you are sitting there like a spell-less wizard (actually, the original version in my head received neither BAB nor Saving throw Bonuses). I quickly realized that my brainchild would be missing out on some things (at the very least, it would want extra attacks) so I through together the concept of Triumphs.
    From that point onward, the fluff basically wrote itself (it is so wonderful when that happens), allowing me to make some good class features for this guy (something that it originally had 2 of other than surges of power and triumphs). When I was creating triumphs, I was calculating whether they would be broken if used by a level 20 dragonborn (previously mongrelfolk) paragon with 34 constitution. Such a character can use up to 64 surge points per surge of power, equating to 96 if you have a favored triumph.
    I am well aware that this guy is capable of some really crazy things by level 20. He can grant himself a +96 bonus to a skill check (possibly with another surge letting him use epic skills for some nice waterfall swimming and cloud balancing action), he can get a threat range of 6-20, he can take 14 on the first 5 d20 rolls that he makes, etc. Much of this stuff seems overpowered or epic-level at first glance but there are some things to remember.
    1)Duration. Most of the things that I listed above will only have a duration of 1-3 rounds. When you actually try to get an effect with decent duration, you end up with a slightly-less jaw-dropping effect. If you choose to go for a short duration effect and just repeat it each round you need it, don’t forget that you become fatigued, then exhausted, and then you need to start paying extra points whenever your surges end. Also, unlike a tippyverse wizard or persist-cheese cleric, paragons can’t walk around with their defenses continually up, making them vulnerable to surprise attacks (especially considering their saving throw bonuses).
    2)Cost. If you really want to, go ahead and get +50 con, +24 Str, +24 Dex, and 50 points of Triumphs. It’ll take a lot of actions but go right ahead. What you shouldn’t forget, however, is that you just spend somewhere around 200 points in a single round. If you need a comparison, look at the psion, who gets around the same number of points to use each day but who can use no more than 20 at a time. When you run out of those points, you don’t become useless but you contribute much less to combat. In short, if a player wants to use their power to go armwrestle with Kord for a round or 2, it will likely harm their participation in later battles that day.
    3)Lack of Versatility. Although some of these numbers look great in theory, keep a practical view of some things. Paragons cannot buff or debuff others, lack save-or-sucks, still rely on full attacks, and still can’t fly. In short, even though this thing has vast amounts of “raw strength”, it lacks the versatility that wizards, clerics, bards, warlocks, binders, and ToB all possess.


    FAQs:

    Q: Can you use the benefits that you gain from surges of strength to meet the prerequisites for feats and PrCs?
    A: No. Last time I checked, having bull strength as a known spell doesn’t let a wizard with 9 Str take power attack. This is the same basic thing.

    Q: Why aren’t there triumphs for the other Dex-based skills?
    A: 2 reasons, actually. First of all, I didn’t want to make more feats for Dex-based skills than for Strength-based ones, lest I bias the class towards Dexterity (Con only has one skill ability but it is awesome). Secondly, none of the other skills really felt right.
    Open Lock: No idea how I’d use that one and it doesn’t mesh with the rest of the class at all.
    Use Rope: I had no ideas other than giving the paragon lasso tricks. It didn’t mesh with the class.
    Ride: This one I admit might’ve been possible. I could’ve done something with tapping into your inner beast or whatnot. However, I didn’t know precisely what it would do and this skill emphasizes training over raw athletic/acrobatic talent, making it a no-no for this class.
    Hide/Move Silently: Of the Dex-based skills I didn’t use, these were the most likely candidates for me to use. I even came up with rough ideas of what they would do. However, I eventually realized that although it is possible to gracefully glide across the ground without making a noise, this class doesn’t look very stealthy from any perspective I look at it.

    Q: Hulking Hurler.
    A: That is not a question but I will answer it anyway. Yes, you can use this thing with the hulking hurler if you can somehow meet the prerequisites. A orcish barbarian paragon 18/Hulking hurler 2 with permanent enlarge person can very well exist. That same character can increase their Strength by 60 and improve their effective size (for the purpose of carrying capacity) to Colossal. Such a character can throw objects weighing around 91,000 metric tons (or twice that with the natural heavyweight feat).
    However, I do not believe this to be a problem with the paragon itself but rather with the hulking hurler. It is well-known that the hulking hurler and its moon-sized projectiles deal enough damage to make DMs cry. This guy throws a slightly larger moon than some builds but when you are already dealing hundred of d6s in damage, a couple hundred extra stops mattering. In fact, there are probably far more optimized builds out there. If your DM allows anyone but a diehard roleplayer to become a hulking hurler, they are likely asking for trouble to start with.
    Therefore, calling this thing overpowered because of the hulking hurler is like calling any caster with turn undead broken due to divine metamagic. The problem isn’t the class itself but the cheese.

    Q: Can maintenance of health, improved maintenance of health, and perfection of health force you to spend desperation points if you lack sufficient surge points?
    A: Yes.
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    What? Nobody?

    Either this class is flawless, it's terrible, or it is far too complicated.

    Could somebody at least let me know which of those three is the case?
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    Good sir, you never make bad classes. You are Realms of Chaos, the one and only master of homebrew classes, and this lives up to my expectations of glory.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    onthetown's Avatar

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    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    Okay, I'll have to completely read this once I get home this afternoon, but since I'm in class and have a bit of time I looked at the table... So far I'm just noticing that the BAB progression seems sort of low for a d12 hd class. Fighting classes seem to have the good BAB progression rather than 3/4 or 1/2... But you've balanced it nicely with all those neat abilities. I'm really looking forward to reading more into this
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    Can Undead become Paragons?

    I don't think it would lead to any (at least extreme) abuse, as you have ways to make the drawbacks of the class still impact creatures immune to fatigue/exhaustion and who are immortal. That applies to undead.

    However, the 'fluff' does not seem to make sense for undead, and some stuff relating to healing might cause odd interactions (although, IIRC, Libris Mortis lets sentient undead have some natural healing). I could see a creature type restriction like how some PrC have race restrictions.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    This class definitely looks complicated, and it hurts my head just looking at it, but in another perspective, if Wizards put every Wizard Spell ever after the Wizard's entry in the Player's Hand Book (instead of the spells section), my head would probably hurt from that, too ^_^.

    All in all, it looks pretty cool. Definitely a selfish class, which (as you said) offsets the +96 to awesome checks. And as you said, if you want to arm wrestle a god for a round and be useless for the rest of the night, go ahead. I kinda like that in a class for my players, actually :).

    Other critiques; your grammar is a little strange in some places, but your spelling seems to be right-on. Sorry; I'm an ED major. It's what I do :P.

    EDIT: To answer the question on whether the Undead can become Paragons; the answer is yes. There are special rules for using Surge of Power with Tireless Creatures (undead and constructs) in the rules.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2009-10-16 at 11:11 AM.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Apr 2007

    Default Re: Physical Perfection, But At What Cost? (PEACH)

    Wow. I get a response. Yay!

    The Tyger: Thank you very much for your kind words. In truth, however, many of my recent classes have originated from thought experiments rather than picking a role and making a class to fill it. Not this one, though.

    Riyousuke: As stated, undead can indeed become paragons. Even incorporeal creatures have physical limits built into their forms, limits that they can break only at great personal cost. Of course, only sentient creatures would be capable of becoming paragons. Sentient constructs without the living subtype are the only statistical anomoly, never gaining the benefit of natural healing and thus being destroyed quite quickly.

    Golden-Esque: In the interest of improving my class, could you point me in the direction of troubling grammer and suggest corrections?
    I'm try not to be too vain but this was too perfect not to sig.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Fury View Post
    okay RoC, that is enough! the gitp boards can only take so much awsome, you might actually hurt somebody with this one!
    At long last, I have an extended signature

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