Strategy Challenge with zombies

[pasko77]

Hi!
I am going to prepare a dungeon/fortress/whatever held by a necromancer, and I'd like strategic advice from you forumites.

The rules:
- The ruleset is WHFRP. What does it mean translated in D&D? It means that everbody is more or less a 2nd level fighter with a couple of tricks. For instance the BBEG is able to summon zombies and a couple of "superzombies" that are his personal bodyguard, and nothing more... let's say he can cast Magic missile at will...
Also PCs (a group of 5) can be considered fighters/barbarians/clerics, about 2nd level.

- The necromancer can control 50 zombies at a time, and a couple of superior zombies that are always next to him.

- The mansion in which he lives must be reasonably small, no traps with molten lava or other strange stuff, but it can have whatever form you suggest.

So, what strategy, deployment of these troops would you use? Zombies can follow one simple order, that can be different for each one.

Thanks, Pasko

[Drager]

All the zombies, one order "Kill the cleric first." :)

[The Big Dice]

Which edition WHFRP are you using? I don't know 2nd at all, but Necromancers in 1st ed are a blast.

That aside, there's a few zombie movie conventions I find to be very useful in games. First, zombies are supernaturally stealthy, as long as they're alone or in very small groups. That means that every time you open a door, there's a chance a zombie will be on the other side of it and the PCs won't know about it. Same if you go near a window. Nothing says zombie movie like being grappled through a window that gets smashed by the zombie grappler.

Second, any loud noise attracts zombies. This means fighting, kicking in doors and generally talking loud. It's almost as if the zombies tell each other where there's warm brains for them to gnaw on. So don't hang around if you get into a fight, there's going to be more on the way very soon.

Third, zombies seem to have an uncanny tracking ability when it comes to following the living. Unless you go to great lengths to shake them, they can follow a trail for miles. And they don't sleep or get tired so even when you stop to rest, it might not be safe. They might not be fast on their feet, but they make up for that with sheer persistence.

The other thing about zombies as opposed to other kinds of undead is, zombies don't get tougher. They just get more of them. Which admittedly doesn't work well in some games, but in Warhammer it should be fine.

[Roc Ness]

Have zombies stay hidden on the ceilings. Make sure that they stay hidden until the heroes are in the centre, then have them drop down and surround them.

Bonus points if the zombies throw bits of chandelier at the heroes.

[pasko77]

Which edition WHFRP are you using? I don't know 2nd at all, but Necromancers in 1st ed are a blast.

2nd edition, mages are toned down, and a necro is just a guy with 6 cantrips at will and a couple spells.
His minion need to stay no further than 50 meters from him (or from a point in the house), therefore the mansion cannot be more than 100*100 meters (well, it's enough :) ) but I can't use your pursuit idea.

So, noisy traps. That's a first good idea.
Also, zombies falling from the ceiling near the doors :)

[paddyfool]

Zombies hidden under the floorboards who break through and grapple the heroes from below would be a classic.

EDIT: For the climactic scene, you should finally find the necromancer, flanked by his two super-zombies, just before all the other remaining zombies burst out from everywhere. Above, below, out of cupboards, out of the walls... you get the picture.

[Myshlaevsky]

Why can't they just torch the house? That's what I'd do in WFRP; 50 zombies sounds like suicide depending on exactly how far advanced in careers you are.

[J.Gellert]

Zombies hiding in water. They don't need to breathe, and you can't see them if it's muddy. Maybe even zombies hiding underground, buried in soft soil, that rise from the mud and surround the players. They don't need to be fast, just well-hidden.

Also, zombies ON FIRE. A human with burning skin might die, but zombies routinely have parts falling off - so a zombie that is on fire will survive for a long while (until it has burnt to a crisp) and it's so much more deadly if it grapples you...

[Chrono22]

Ok, so you have your typical 4-way hallway intersection.
On the intersection is a ten foot wide, twenty foot deep concealed pit trap.
At the end of each corridor is a conspicuous lever.
The bottom ten feet of the pit trap is filled with water. Hidden under the water are seven skeletons.
The walls of the pit are lined with brown mold. The brown mold radiates nonlethal damage (3d6 cold) to all creatures within five feet of it. The skeletons are immune to the cold damage.
A thin film of ice coats the surface of the water. If a creature falls on it, they take normal falling damage, and it thereafter breaks apart, plunging them into the frigid water. Any characters that take damage from the moss become fatigued. They might also become fatigued as they suffer cold damage from being immersed in ice-cold water.
The skeletons have an acting command to "grapple and pin any creature that falls into the water". The walls of the pit trap may be climbed, but the moss is slippery (-10 to climb attempts).
The cold damage only occurs within 5 feet of the walls. Therefore a character will be safe from it if he swims to the bottom of the water (he may still suffer immersion damage though).

Oh, and the levers:
The one the party first encounters can only shut the pit trap (resets it). The other three have no function, and only serve to act as a diversion.

This may seem a little overkill for a level 2 character... if you want, tone down the nonlethal cold damage to 1d6/round, and limit it to 2 skeletons.
I'd keep the falling damage though, so that if one character falls unconcious due to the fall + cold damage, others are encouraged to jump in to save him from drowning.
This might still be too much, if you have a hoard of zombies rush in at the PCs that don't fall into the trap. They might become too preoccupied with fighting to save their friends in the pit.

[pasko77]

I can't use ice, for it is too exotic for the setting, but other ideas, such as using water, traps filled with water and zombies, and setting zombies on fire are all great!

Hopefully the PCs will be smart enough not to challenge all of the 50 zombies, and, no, they cannot set the house on fire, since they have to save the classical damsel in distress in the laboratory.
It is kind of a cliche, I know, but the classics are classics for a reason

[TelemontTanthul]

Put zombies in ALL kinds of containers... PCs are usually greedy enough to open everything they find.

Have a type of zombie that can crawl on walls or something.

[Myshlaevsky]

I can't use ice, for it is too exotic for the setting, but other ideas, such as using water, traps filled with water and zombies, and setting zombies on fire are all great!

Hopefully the PCs will be smart enough not to challenge all of the 50 zombies, and, no, they cannot set the house on fire, since they have to save the classical damsel in distress in the laboratory.
It is kind of a cliche, I know, but the classics are classics for a reason

That's cool. Nagash, the biggest baddest Necromancer of them all, has an obsession with warpstone. It's not too unlikely that warpstone therefore has some use in the application of Necromancy. Consider 'modified' zombies that breathe or exude warpfire or have semi-mechanical bits. Think about damaging radiation zones and big freakin' lightning generators. Might work with your laboratory, depending how far into MAD SCIENCE you're going.

Also body parts. You cut off the arm of the zombie, then it bites you while the arm leaps up the ground and grabs you by the throat. I like the idea of nonhuman zombies, or possibly human zombies modified with nonhuman parts. Small birds with huge throbbing hearts, taken from human children, could act as long-range scouts for your Necromancer (you can handwave the range restriction to an extent for things like this). A bear zombie or dire wolf (dire wolf after all being essentially, a wolf zombie) could be a nice miniboss.

Think about ghouls. Ghouls are debased humans who have long ate the flesh of men. Rather than giving your Necromancer bodyguards of zombie type no. 2, why not give him some Sylvanian Strigany, a few ghouls and a wight-like Stirland captain who stumbled upon the wrong operation in Sylvania one dark night.

[minchazo]

How about a graveyard outside? The zombies pop up and the heroes could see the mansion as 'safe,' barricading themselves inside... with everything else that's there!

[Crafty Cultist]

Arm the zombies. an undead monster that bashes you to peices is not as scary as an undead moster in armour that is firing on you with a crossbow. barricades and arrow slits make them even more dangerous

[jiriku]

Focus on variety. Room after room after room of 50 zombies is tedious after a while because the encounters are all the same. But zombies on fire, zombies underwater, zombies in the ceiling, zombies throwing things, zombies shooting things, etc, etc, that keeps up the environment. Also, try fights that take place in odd terrtain, like on the middle of a winding staircase or on the windswept, sloping roof of the mansion (great for a climactic battle). The straight-up fight in an empty 30'x30' room isn't very interesting.

[subject42]

If a normal zombie weighs 150 pounds, you might want to use their aggregate mass and volume to your advantage.

Ten zombies hurling themselves down a stairwell or over a balcony railing, then trying to initiate a grapple is going to act like both a boulder trap and a mass bull rush.

Most adventurers can't stay standing under 1500 pounds of falling flesh and once the zombies get in grapple range it's going to be an ugly fight. Hopefully your players are carrying slashing weapons.

[chiasaur11]

If the party eats, sleeps or goes to the restroom, rush them.

Zombies don't need sleep or potty breaks. Humans do.

Also: Avoid anyone named after cities in Florida.

[Kzickas]

some way to flood the house with smoke or some other gas on demand, the dead do not breathe after all

[The Big Dice]

2nd edition, mages are toned down, and a necro is just a guy with 6 cantrips at will and a couple spells.
His minion need to stay no further than 50 meters from him (or from a point in the house), therefore the mansion cannot be more than 100*100 meters (well, it's enough :) ) but I can't use your pursuit idea.

So, noisy traps. That's a first good idea.
Also, zombies falling from the ceiling near the doors :)

Don't you get the Hero and Champion undead in 2nd edition? I know in 1st they couldn't be rotters, but there was no reason the Necromancer can't summon a skellygog to lead a group of them in the old version.

[pasko77]

Might work with your laboratory, depending how far into MAD SCIENCE you're going.

A bear zombie or dire wolf (dire wolf after all being essentially, a wolf zombie) could be a nice miniboss.

Think about ghouls. Ghouls are debased humans who have long ate the flesh of men. Rather than giving your Necromancer bodyguards of zombie type no. 2, why not give him some Sylvanian Strigany, a few ghouls and a wight-like Stirland captain who stumbled upon the wrong operation in Sylvania one dark night.

Yeah, mad science is a good hint, since the necro has ties to the Moulder and Skyre clans, and who knows what the hell is he experimenting on! :)

I'll think about non humans zombies. Dire wolves are ok, a bear is overpowered.

Indeed the bodyguards are wights, I just called them "super zombies" not to use too many details unfamiliar to the D&D users (and I don't know the D&D equivalent myself).

Don't you get the Hero and Champion undead in 2nd edition? I know in 1st they couldn't be rotters, but there was no reason the Necromancer can't summon a skellygog to lead a group of them in the old version.

Yes I have the Wight template, I'm gonna use them (see previous answer).

Focus on variety.

Yes of course. That's why I'gathering some ideas, I don't want my players roll their eyes while I put YET ANOTHER HANDFUL OF ZOMBIES on the table.

Thanks again for all the kind answers!

[Myshlaevsky]

I should have mentioned this in my last post, but I'd appreciate it if you could let us know how the game goes. I've always wanted to a try a zombie bash adventure in WFRP and just never got round to it.

If there are (dry) cornfields nearby then zombies on fire in that environment could just be extremely nasty. Might want to avoid that though, as the house could end up going up in smoke too.

[pasko77]

I should have mentioned this in my last post, but I'd appreciate it if you could let us know how the game goes. I've always wanted to a try a zombie bash adventure in WFRP and just never got round to it.

Sure, but it will take a couple of weeks.
We play on thursday, and I don't foresee this happening before a couple of sessions.
I will gladly open a thread with the results.

If you are interested, my PCs are:
- an Orc BigUn, think of him as a Dwarf Seargent. Very strong in melee.
- a goblin engineer, with a custom "magic" school called "goblin engineering". Very skilled (bs 10!!!) with his rifles.
- a skaven assassin, still don't understand if he's good or sucks.
- a beastman shaman (think of him as a 2nd level mage with demonology lore) he has a nice claw in the left hand which deals additional damage when delivering a touch spell (house rule)... and moose horns. We call him Santa Claws.
- a vampire hunter orc. This one has the "vampire hunter" career, but really is specialized in hunting down cowards and traitors of the waaagh.

If there are (dry) cornfields nearby then zombies on fire in that environment could just be extremely nasty. Might want to avoid that though, as the house could end up going up in smoke too.

Nope, they are underground, near the Tilean city corresponding to Venice.
Everything in the environment made of stone.

Bye, Pasko

[Fixx]

you could throw brainwashed humans that think they are zombies trying to eat the brains of the party, all controlled by a dead necromancer in a zombie body (completely looking like a zombie)

then just watch all the PCs giving you their best "wtf" faces lol

[Forevernade]

If a normal zombie weighs 150 pounds, you might want to use their aggregate mass and volume to your advantage.

Ten zombies hurling themselves down a stairwell or over a balcony railing, then trying to initiate a grapple is going to act like both a boulder trap and a mass bull rush.

Most adventurers can't stay standing under 1500 pounds of falling flesh and once the zombies get in grapple range it's going to be an ugly fight. Hopefully your players are carrying slashing weapons.

BRILLIANT! I would have to say, this is one of the more ingenious ideas so far. I mean, Zombie Avalanche wont destroy too much of the zombies so they can be rebuilt. Adventurers don't get rebuilt after falling damage....

[Olo Demonsbane]

BRILLIANT! I would have to say, this is one of the more ingenious ideas so far. I mean, Zombie Avalanche wont destroy too much of the zombies so they can be rebuilt. Adventurers don't get rebuilt after falling damage....

Actually...they get rebuilt as zombies.