[4E] Abyssal Genasi Dragon Article

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-[ 22:26.40 ]- -( FlawedParadigm ): I was TOTALLY WILLING to give up DEMIGOD for Scion of Absence.
-[ 22:26.47 ]- -( FlawedParadigm ): Then I noticed it was a _PP_.

So I'm looking over the Abyssal Genasi article, and raising my eyebrows. If the #giantitp channel reaction as a whole is any indication, the power level of the material in the article is very high.

It introduces four new elements of genasi, which are essentially corrupted versions of the existing four elements - causticsoul for water, plaguesoul for wind, voidsoul for earth, and cindersoul for fire. It's fun, it's flavorful, but there's a problem. A rather large one, in fact.

Everything that's good is piled onto the voidsoul only.

Well, let me rephrase that slightly - literally everything that's exclusive to the voidsoul is amazing. This is not hyperbole. From a heroic feat that autodamages if someone attacks your Will or does psychic damage to you at all, to a racial power that causes you to stop existing (thus breaking line of effect and sight to everyone) until the start of your next turn - along with a PP that allows you to pull similar shenanigans on an enemy of your choice - and a stance that gives you a dazing aura, no attack roll. It's ridiculously good stuff all packed into one race.

I fully expect stealth errata for this when the 380 compiled issue comes out, not unlike what happened to the Assassin Velvet Blade Trick feat.

There's a bit more to voidsoul's power than that, but I need to lie down after reading all of it. Excuse me.

[Meek]

It's good that it was a Genasi, since I thought they were stupid. If it had been a race I'd ever actually use or go anywhere near, I'd probably have probably flipped out more at this article. But nowadays I kinda expect Dragon articles to have something horrible in them four or five times a month.

[tcrudisi]

I'm struggling to find it, so can someone link me to that article please? I am a D&DI subscriber, I just rarely actually go to the website (so I struggle to try to navigate their site) and instead use my subscription to keep my char builder up to date. (Also, I did try google, but it kept linking me to other forums).

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I'm struggling to find it, so can someone link me to that article please? I am a D&DI subscriber, I just rarely actually go to the website (so I struggle to try to navigate their site) and instead use my subscription to keep my char builder up to date. (Also, I did try google, but it kept linking me to other forums).

Ask and you shall receive.

[The Tygre]

Y'know, back in my day, cutter, we used to have names for Abyssal-descended plane-touched. What was it again? Oh, right...

TIEFLINGS.

Seriously though, this sounds all kinds of crazy awesome. Makes me wish I could get to the Dragon articles.

[Yakk]

and a stance that gives you a dazing aura, no attack roll. It's ridiculously good stuff all packed into one race.

No, it gives you a range 3 aura that auto damages 10 psychic. The target may cancel the psychic damage in exchange for being dazed. :)

[tcrudisi]

No, it gives you a range 3 aura that auto damages 10 psychic. The target may cancel the psychic damage in exchange for being dazed. :)

True, but it is still a very good stance. Since the DM will (almost) always pick the choice that is least harmful, that will tend to be 10 damage, but not always. Minions will always choose to be dazed. Also, even if the monster is beside the tank and chooses to be dazed (since they don't need their move or minor), that still helps your ranged attackers to hit him (combat advantage).

Of course Dazed limits their actions, but really, "take 10 damage or grant combat advantage" can often be a painful choice.

[Mando Knight]

No, it gives you a range 3 aura that auto damages 10 psychic. The target may cancel the psychic damage in exchange for being dazed. :)

It's range 2. Still powerful, though. I suppose that when WotC wanted nothing to be overpowered, they meant it literally.

[tcrudisi]

It's range 2. Still powerful, though. I suppose that when WotC wanted nothing to be overpowered, they meant it literally.

And then they go and give us Con to AC instead of Dex/Int. Brilliant, WotC. Bloody brilliant.

[Mando Knight]

And then they go and give us Con to AC instead of Dex/Int. Brilliant, WotC. Bloody brilliant.

That's actually not overpowered. Stat-to-AC always requires that the character isn't wearing heavy armor, and replaces the bonus that Dexterity or Intelligence would grant. It's just shifting the extra defense (AC) to go with a different NAD stat than Reflex. (It also kinda makes sense in certain contexts, like a tough guy being so tough that his skin is like iron...)

[Xallace]

It's range 2. Still powerful, though. I suppose that when WotC wanted nothing to be overpowered, they meant it literally.

Ba-Dum Pish!

So I'm not really seeing how the not-existing powers are over-powered. I mean, nobody can affect you, but you can't affect anything else either (same with the attack version, though that grants combat advantage). It just sounds like a pause button to me. "I'm just gonna sit this turn out, guys."

The damage when your Will is hit is a little strong I suppose, especially since it doesn't specify that the damage is from your manifestation (instead, any psychic resistance will do). But it doesn't seem particularly over-powered to me, as not many attacks really target Will (in my experience, any way), so it's more of a nice boon in a rare situation.

Also, is 10 psychic damage at level 20 really that much? The Voidsoul Infliction stance sure is strong if your enemies let themselves be dazed, but who's gonna let themselves be dazed? Not too many monsters. Or stay within 10 feet of you? Big ol' Brutes and Soldiers with a lot of HP, I'd think.

*Shrug* I dunno, doesn't seem to bad to me, though I'm willing to concede if someone proves otherwise.

So that aside, I really like these guys. They strike me as "polluted" Genasi rather than "abyssal." That sounds like a whole lot of world-building potential to take advantage of.

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The not-existing powers can be used at the end of your turn, and you wink back into existence at the start of your next turn, thus ensuring that pretty much every enemy on the field can't touch you for a round. They really aren't missing out on much because of how that duration plays out, and you get a full set of actions next round as normal, while only blowing a minor action on the turn you use it. Note that the Scion of Absence can recharge this power by spending an AP, and gets yet another encounter power to avoid pain.

Voidsoul Infliction on its own is strong if an enemy wold rather take the daze than the damage, but is still amazing even for the damage, considering that Scions of Absence are likely to have three sources of psychic autodamage - Infliction, Empty Mind, and the ability that autodamages whenever an enemy misses them. It adds up.

And, in my experience, the more powerful attacks target Will, but this something that can be DM-dependent, depending on how closely the DM sticks to the MMs.

[Mando Knight]

Of course, if you're playing a Voidsoul in a campaign run by an intelligent DM, expect the number of Gith and Purple Dragons you face to increase dramatically...

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Of course, if you're playing a Voidsoul in a campaign run by an intelligent DM, expect the number of Gith and Purple Dragons you face to increase dramatically...

If you've really constrained your DM into using a very limited set of creatures for an encounter just to challenge your character, that's a damn good sign that something is wrong.

[AllisterH]

True, but it is still a very good stance. Since the DM will (almost) always pick the choice that is least harmful, that will tend to be 10 damage, but not always. Minions will always choose to be dazed. Also, even if the monster is beside the tank and chooses to be dazed (since they don't need their move or minor), that still helps your ranged attackers to hit him (combat advantage).

Of course Dazed limits their actions, but really, "take 10 damage or grant combat advantage" can often be a painful choice.

At level 20 though? Even a normal level 15 monster is not going to flinch at 10 damage a round. At level 20, as a DM, I'll take the damage.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Just one comment:

"Causticsoul"? Seriously? Was that the best they could do?

Y'know, back in my day, cutter, we used to have names for Abyssal-descended plane-touched. What was it again? Oh, right...

TIEFLINGS.

Thank you. I thought I was the only one who noticed that they completely screwed up the old tiefling in an attempt to stick an evil-but-not-evil race in the first PHB only to essentially stick them back in this way. If they were going to make demon planetouched (or thought they might do them) they could have stuck in a different evil race and left the tieflings as they were.

[tcrudisi]

At level 20 though? Even a normal level 15 monster is not going to flinch at 10 damage a round. At level 20, as a DM, I'll take the damage.

Absolutely. I realize that WotC over-rates ongoing damage, but 10 free damage a round spread out over 3 or 4 monsters? Heck yeah. That adds up, and quickly.

That's actually not overpowered. Stat-to-AC always requires that the character isn't wearing heavy armor, and replaces the bonus that Dexterity or Intelligence would grant. It's just shifting the extra defense (AC) to go with a different NAD stat than Reflex. (It also kinda makes sense in certain contexts, like a tough guy being so tough that his skin is like iron...)

The problem is with Rageblood Barbarians who will have an AC equal to Swordmages. Yes, a Barbarian with an AC equal to a Swordmage. And what's the cost? One feat. For +8 or +9 to AC. Wizards often take Leather Armor Proficiency for +2 AC. To get +8 or +9 for one feat is ridiculous and is overpowered.

[NeoVid]

Man... I wish I could read Insider. My first character was a Genasi, and I'm always looking for more things to add to him. Adding Voidsoul as a second manifestation just looks so entertaining now, and the amount of story potential it would give...

Oh well, maybe I'll be able to see it in next year's Dragon annual.

[Thajocoth]

This actually simplifies a build I was planning. Having 4 manifestations and swapping them around (via Elemental Tempest for 2 at once and a free change when I spend an AP and some feat to change as a minor), makes one compelled to take the 5th one (complete set). With 9 available, the build is simpler now as I'm not compelled to take them all. (Will take Wind, Water, Fire and Acid with that build.)

[Mando Knight]

If you've really constrained your DM into using a very limited set of creatures for an encounter just to challenge your character, that's a damn good sign that something is wrong.

You're not constrained to use those monsters, it's just a means of showing a self-righteous Voidsoul Genasi that he doesn't really have a "win button." The 10 damage-or-daze is also a Daily power, and a Stance at that, so it limits your other options. If the boss monster happens to be a Purple Dragon, then that eliminates the possibility of the player using that power for that encounter. If it isn't, then any encounter with an Elite and a few ranged opponents becomes deadly if they realize that the guy can continue to assault them.

BTW, I can't seem to find the feat that grants Con to AC for Barbarians...

[Nai_Calus]

It's in Primal Power I think.

Voidsoul Genasi is so emo it's awesome. People hate you, you're tainted by the Abyss, your parents probably abandoned you, and your racial power is that you temporarily cease to exist. /wrists!

I want to play one now. A cheerful one. He uses his racial power as often as he can, convinced that the answer to some great mystery that haunts him can be found in the void, and that each time he becomes one with nothingness and comes back from it, he comes just a little bit closer to finally understanding.

[Mando Knight]

It's in Primal Power I think.

Oh, right. Preview, i.e. not yet in the Character Builder. *facepalm*

[Sir Homeslice]

The Causticsoul/Watersoul PP isn't bad, per se, it's just the Voidsoul is FLYING OFF THE HOOKS CRAZY.

[Xallace]

It's in Primal Power I think.

Is it the Hide Armor Expertise feat?

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You're not constrained to use those monsters, it's just a means of showing a self-righteous Voidsoul Genasi that he doesn't really have a "win button." The 10 damage-or-daze is also a Daily power, and a Stance at that, so it limits your other options. If the boss monster happens to be a Purple Dragon, then that eliminates the possibility of the player using that power for that encounter. If it isn't, then any encounter with an Elite and a few ranged opponents becomes deadly if they realize that the guy can continue to assault them.

Does something stop being an "I Win" button - which it isn't just yet, merely very good - just because it happens to have one weakness? No, and the suggestion is silly. The solution is like scoffing at the fact that TWF rangers and Storm of Blade Barbarians are great and saying you can use flyers. They will still inflict a rather large amount of damage to anything that doesn't fly, which limits what you can use to challenge a party with such characters. When people suggest something is good, they don't necessarily mean it's uncounterable - and there's still a wide variety of opponents that a Scion will do quite well against.

Even past that, congratulations, this still only eliminates their autodamage. You're left to deal with the Scion's survival tools - one will have to wait a few rounds in order to even scratch them, as they can use Voidsoul Assumption once, recharge it on an AP, and then use their utility to negate damage once more, while still having a largely full set of actions to use the entire time. So even against things with psychic resist, playing defensively will still work as it does with everything else; it's just that the Scion is dealing less damage.

[1of3]

The not-existing powers can be used at the end of your turn, and you wink back into existence at the start of your next turn, thus ensuring that pretty much every enemy on the field can't touch you for a round.

Ready action?

[Doug Lampert]

The problem is with Rageblood Barbarians who will have an AC equal to Swordmages. Yes, a Barbarian with an AC equal to a Swordmage. And what's the cost? One feat. For +8 or +9 to AC. Wizards often take Leather Armor Proficiency for +2 AC. To get +8 or +9 for one feat is ridiculous and is overpowered.

+9 to AC for stat swapping? How does that work? You start with an 18 Con +2 racial +2 tier advances +6 other level advances +2 demigod. That gives 30 Con at level 28.

Meanwhile at least one of your Dex or Int started at 10 or higher and hit 12 at level 21, only 8 points behind. So putting absolutely everything you can into con and putting the absolute minimum possible into both Int and Dex the difference is only 8 points at most. Still alot, but you've dumped your reflex to do it.

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Ready action?

Is one way to deal with Assumption if you're ranged, sure, in which case the power can make for a decent delay tactic if they go that route.

[Grey Watcher]

It's in Primal Power I think.

Voidsoul Genasi is so emo it's awesome. People hate you, you're tainted by the Abyss, your parents probably abandoned you, and your racial power is that you temporarily cease to exist. /wrists!

I want to play one now. A cheerful one. He uses his racial power as often as he can, convinced that the answer to some great mystery that haunts him can be found in the void, and that each time he becomes one with nothingness and comes back from it, he comes just a little bit closer to finally understanding.

Y'know, someone, a while ago talked about putting a Tiefling and a Shadar-Kai in a party together and having them have emo contests. Now I want to take the same idea to the Nth degree and put a Tiefling, Shadar-Kai, Drow, Revenant, and Voidsoul Genasi all in a group together. Of course, maybe they wouldn't so much have adventures as hang around the tavern, wearing armor with tiresome attempts at wit written on it such as "I can please one person per day, and today is not your day," and pointing out to each other the painfully obvious pain of life, but still with so many races vying for the bragging rights of Most Tortured By Our Very Nature, it's hard not to want to let them have at it!

And yeah, I too had the impulse a while back to break the mold by playing an Oh-God-I'm-So-Alone race with the personality of a high school cheerleader (ie as annoyingly perky as their fellows are annoyingly morose). Never got a chance to put it into play, though. Although I really like your idea of the character trying to find enlightenment, of all things, in his brushes with non-existence.

[Not Five]

And yeah, I too had the impulse a while back to break the mold by playing an Oh-God-I'm-So-Alone race with the personality of a high school cheerleader (ie as annoyingly perky as their fellows are annoyingly morose). Never got a chance to put it into play, though.

I can't resist pointing out that shadar-kai, in their homelands, are fatally allergic to emo. Excessive melancholy prompts the Shadowfell to eat them (which of course is always an amusing mental image). All the same, I quite like the idea of your Team The Crow, with all its marvellously over-the-top issues.