[3.5] Druid and Unarmed Strike Questions

[Paulus]

First) I've been looking over the classes lately, and have been trying not to play a druid for so long because they didn't agree with me. Then I learned you can wildshape into a Dragon. Which is better then polymorph imho. But now my only hold up is the "not being able to wear metal", because really I don't see metal as an unnatural element. But in D&D it is so. Therefore I ask, is there anyway for a Druid to use metal?

Second) Barring Manuvers, Psionics, Incarnum, what is the best Unarmed Strike based character? I've been looking at core for a long time to make a character with unarmed attacks as his sole method of attack but it really pales in comparison to natural attacks, etc. Honestly, it seems near impossible to make a human good at unarmed strikes. So I figure I'd better see what was the best Unarmed Strike character build(s) and then go form there.

Thanks!

[Person_Man]

Therefore I ask, is there anyway for a Druid to use metal?

Not that I know. But you don't need it. There are a dozen non-metal special materials out there that are just as good, or better. Check out Crystalkeep.

Second) Barring Manuvers, Psionics, Incarnum, what is the best Unarmed Strike based character?

There are a ton. Basically, you just want to increase your size and/or effective size and/or effective Monk level (hopefully without taking any Monk) as much as possible. This thread compiles them. The "best" combo depends on your books allowed, ECL, and metagame damage threashold (how high you can go before the DM pulls out the banhammer or starts pumping the difficulty of encounters specifically to counter you). I'd also add that some method of getting Improved Grab (like the Scorpion's Grasp feat from Sandstorm) helps a lot. Though there are many other melee combos for you to choose from.

[Godskook]

First) I've been looking over the classes lately, and have been trying not to play a druid for so long because they didn't agree with me. Then I learned you can wildshape into a Dragon. Which is better then polymorph imho. But now my only hold up is the "not being able to wear metal", because really I don't see metal as an unnatural element. But in D&D it is so. Therefore I ask, is there anyway for a Druid to use metal?

There's a prestige class somewhere that does some minimal allowances, but typically, druids are stuck in their wooden armor.

(And if it helps, don't think of 'natural' as 'exists in nature' but rather as 'are or were once alive'. Druids are about plants and animals, and the armor they wear is intended to reflect this.)

Second) Barring Manuvers, Psionics, Incarnum, what is the best Unarmed Strike based character? I've been looking at core for a long time to make a character with unarmed attacks as his sole method of attack but it really pales in comparison to natural attacks, etc. Honestly, it seems near impossible to make a human good at unarmed strikes. So I figure I'd better see what was the best Unarmed Strike character build(s) and then go form there.

Core? Got me. I'm an advocate that gauntlets count as unarmed strikes for the purpose of synergy with all monk class features(flurry, etc), and if you're DM agrees, that's something of an improvement for the monk. Other than that, everything I know of to help out unarmed strikes is non-core or admitted houseruling/homebrewing.

[Sliver]

I think a druid can wear dragon armor.. So if you wear a dragon, and then turn into one.. Just make sure your armor stays with you when you wildshape. Who needs to be a lizard in scale armor when you are a dragon, wearing another dragon?

[deuxhero]

Actually, I recall from the settings wikia that one Forgotten Realms deity allows her druids to wear anything a ranger could (mythiral breastplate is better than most non-dragonscale stuff a druid can wear)

Also, Dragons are not worth it for wildshape or polymoprh. Horrible hit dice/cr ratio. If you want to be a dragonish wildshape, pick up the frozen wildshape feat and use a cyrohydra.

Oh, if you like wildshape but not the druid flavor, what about an urban wildshape ranger? Both ACF are in the SRD.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah. . .
But pulling things out of settings without integrating the things behind them, or an equivalent, into the game world being played, feels to me like one of the seven signs of Munchkinhood.
Not the worst, but a sign.

[Sinfire Titan]

Regarding the latter, the current Unarmed Strike damage record is around 30d8. Here's the best Unarmed Combat handbook around.


In Core only? You're right. There's no easy way to boost Unarmed damage to the point that it rivals a Wildshaped Druid.

[deuxhero]

Yeah. . .
But pulling things out of settings without integrating the things behind them, or an equivalent, into the game world being played, feels to me like one of the seven signs of Munchkinhood.
Not the worst, but a sign.

I wasn't suggesting it get used like that, just that there is a RAW way to do it.

[Tavar]

Yeah. . .
But pulling things out of settings without integrating the things behind them, or an equivalent, into the game world being played, feels to me like one of the seven signs of Munchkinhood.
Not the worst, but a sign.

I see nothing in either statement that suggests doing this. The OP asked if there was any way to do something, and the poster responded, yes, though it's in setting X.

[Paulus]

[quote] Why Dragon? paraphrase [/quote}

Well, I just love Dragons. *shrug*


Also, I'll have to look into the different materials for armor, I'm still on a quest to find the perfect combination of this and that to fit a character concept I've had for ages. And the biggest stopping block has been the unarmed damage. By the looks of it, Natural attacks will always be better. Simply because of Damage output. Trying to make a character who can fight unarmed well in human form and take a Dragon form when ever he likes. Outside of homebrew the choices are ick. It seems near impossible. Again. Sheesh. Thanks for the input though!

Huh.. Where exactly can I find Wildshape Ranger? It's not in the SRD as far as I can see.

[deuxhero]

under variants.
urban and wildshape

[Paulus]

under variants.
urban and wildshape

Ah I see, Missed it. But tell me, why urban over natural? How does it effect wearing metal or even Unarmed Strikes?

Actually, Could a wildshape ranger even take Dragon Wildshape? Size limitations would seem to say no...

[deuxhero]

I assumed that at least part of the flavor issue you had with druids was the tree hugging bit (because what other flavor do druids have?) and urban ranger eliminates that bit of flavor the ranger shares with the druid.

As for dragon wildshape, if you can find a large or larger dragon within the HD limits, yes. "Small or Medium animals" doesn't apply to dragons.

[tyckspoon]

As for dragon wildshape, if you can find a large or larger dragon within the HD limits, yes. "Small or Medium animals" doesn't apply to dragons.

Assuming you're using Draconomicon's Dragon Wild Shape feat to get access to the Dragon type, you're still stuck with Small and Medium. If you're not doing it that way, it'll depend on exactly what you're using to expand your wildshape.

[deuxhero]

What is the wording snag?

[Nakun]

Um, Not 100% sure on what I'm saying because I'm away from my books, but there are special armors for druids, like dragon hide and darkwood. There is also the ironwood spell that allows you to shape wood to be like metal armor. Additionally, I believe that in the Complete Adventurer, they had armors that stayed with you when you wildshaped. And, Complete Adventurer has the Foulchan Lyrist (SP?) Class that lets you wear at least light metal armor.

[Jack_Simth]

First) I've been looking over the classes lately, and have been trying not to play a druid for so long because they didn't agree with me. Then I learned you can wildshape into a Dragon. Which is better then polymorph imho. But now my only hold up is the "not being able to wear metal", because really I don't see metal as an unnatural element. But in D&D it is so. Therefore I ask, is there anyway for a Druid to use metal?

Yes - their weapons aren't restricted to nonmetal - so if you pick up the proficiency, you can have a steel Spiked Chain, no problem.

Slightly more seriously, if you're a multiclass bard/Druid, there's a PrC for you that will let you wear light metal armor. It's a decidedly non-optimal path to take, though. See, in order to qualify for the Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer, page 47) you pretty much need: Rogue-2 (Evasion), Druid-1 (1st level Divine), Bard-2 (1st level Arcane - you an also do Bard-1/Sorcerer-1, or Bard-1/Wizard-1, but...)... oh yeah, and it requires 13 ranks in a Perform skill, so you can't qualify until 10th.

Second) Barring Manuvers, Psionics, Incarnum, what is the best Unarmed Strike based character? I've been looking at core for a long time to make a character with unarmed attacks as his sole method of attack but it really pales in comparison to natural attacks, etc. Honestly, it seems near impossible to make a human good at unarmed strikes. So I figure I'd better see what was the best Unarmed Strike character build(s) and then go form there.

Thanks!

Rogue. Take the two-weapon fighting chain, attack with both fists, and pick up a Ring of Blinking so that you always strike as though invisible. It'll do, so long as you don't run across things that are immune to critical hits (or that can see you when you're Ethereal). It's still not optimal, but it'll fit in alongside a sword-and-board fighter, an evoker wizard, and a heal-bot cleric.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Yeah. . .
But pulling things out of settings without integrating the things behind them, or an equivalent, into the game world being played, feels to me like one of the seven signs of Munchkinhood.
Not the worst, but a sign.

Yes. Cherry-picking setting material is bad. Far more sensible to just houserule your own setting to completely do away with the metal thing. No need to bring in other settings as flimsy justifications.

[Paulus]

Actually the Nature part was the biggest draw, as you can tell from my sig- the test showed me undeniably nature oriented- I enjoy the natural, wild concept. Hence why I enjoy Unarmed Strikes, especially since I'm going for a human character. The annoyance with the druid has been the wild shaping into things I didn't particularly care for, but a Dragon, ah yes, That I would gladly take.

I HAD stuck with arcane routes for poly-morph, but the spell limitations and caster blah always tricked me in so far as Unarmed Attacks went. Not mention trying to be human. Ranger always annoyed me because I didn't want to drag an Animal companion through Dungeons, same with druid. But this Dragon wildshape I just discovered has me reconsidering. So I've been trying to figure out how to get metal armor out of the deal, specifically Mithral chain mail. Just for concept. Right now I'm looking into materials that as good as or better and have the same properties.

The other side of this, is trying to get to also work in core.

[Worira]

(And if it helps, don't think of 'natural' as 'exists in nature' but rather as 'are or were once alive'. Druids are about plants and animals, and the armor they wear is intended to reflect this.)

And fire, stone, sun, weather, water, wind. And death, oddly enough. And they do get to heat, chill, and repel metal.

So yeah, druids are weird.