Rogue/wizard build help

[Andry]

One of the players in my group needs a new character (as he sucks at making them I have taken up the task of doing it for him) He wants a rogue/wizard type. I suggested a beguiler but he shot that down. So I was thinking a whisper gnome rogue/wizard with some unseen seer and arcane trickster thrown in. The starting level will be 10. So I was looking for some help on feats (Dm banned craven) to help him be a viable character and a good build for this combo.

Thanks for the help!

[Vizzerdrix]

A little more info please. Do they prefer ranged or melee combat? What books are ok for picking from?

[Jack_Simth]

Depends; what power level are you after?

Human, with Able Learner, the Rogue-1/Wizard-4/Unseen Seer-1/Arcane Trickster-4 will do well - 9th level Wizard casting, 4d6 sneak attack.

[Grumman]

I'd suggest something like Trickster Spellthief 2 / Wizard 3 / Unseen Seer 5. Pick up Sniper's Shot as one of your Spellthief 1st level spells known and the Master Spellthief feat, and you can sneak attack from any distance as often as you like, burning your target's own spells to power your Sniper's Shot.

[Eldariel]

Sniper's Shot is a Wiz/Sorc spell too, and only a level 1 at that. I suggest Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 5 heading for Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Spellwarp Sniper 5 or Arcane Trickster 5. I don't like Arcane Trickster due to the hefty skill requirements to enter; that burns most of your early skillpoints on useless crap (Decipher Script, Escape Artist...) and doesn't nearly give you enough points to make up for it.

Practiced Spellcaster becomes a must. Then you use Unseen Seer's Advanced Learnings to pick up Divine Insight (for all your skillmonkey needs) and Hunter's Eye for some Sneak Attackage (which you'll be able to Persist around level 15).

[Deastorm]

Rogue 2 for evasion and stocking up on skill points, wizard X. Dex is a dump stat, your int will carry the major weight, and take insightful reflexes. Your search and disable are fantastic, and open lock is a knock spell away. All social skills are handled by enchantment line. Sneaking is covered by silence and invisibility, if you must.

I have a warforged on DDO with a similar build, blows people's minds to see a rogue with 10 dex. Int is king, con is queen, rest is whatever.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's hard to see Whisper Gnome and Wizard in the same sentence without suggesting That Damn Gnome, who has spells which hurt worse when you do make the save...

I shall at least attempt to restrain myself.

Basically, Rogue2/Wiz3/USS2/AT to cap, then back to USS, or maybe Spellwarp Sniper.

Rogue 2 for evasion and stocking up on skill points, wizard X. Dex is a dump stat, your int will carry the major weight, and take insightful reflexes. Your search and disable are fantastic, and open lock is a knock spell away. All social skills are handled by enchantment line. Sneaking is covered by silence and invisibility, if you must.

What about Disable Device, which is Dex based? Knock does nothing about traps. Assuming you are willing to blow 2nd level spells on something as pointless as Knock when ranks in the skill is unlimited use.

Silence = no spells. No spells = why bother being a caster? No.
Invis = trap. By mid-level too many things see invis. Which does nothing to protect against Hide. Also fragile.
Enchantment line offers Will save, and are Mind-Affecting, meaning more and more things are immune. Effects are also temporary.

Skill points are cheap, specially if you are focusing on Int. By having ranks in skills instead of relying on spells, you can save your magic for the fun stuff.

Instead of Knock, use Scorching Ray. Instead of Invisibility, try Glitterdust. Charm Person becomes Grease for battlefield control hilarity.

In short, you can have your cake, and still be Batman Wizard.

[Eldariel]

What about Disable Device, which is Dex based? Knock does nothing about traps. Assuming you are willing to blow 2nd level spells on something as pointless as Knock when ranks in the skill is unlimited use.

Disable Device is Int-based. That said, I agree. No Dex on a Rogue/Wizard is meh.

And I still don't get why people always go AT. That's 14 skillpoints thrown to the wind. Sure, it gets fast Sneak Attack, but USS is only 1 point behind on that, and with Hunter's Eye matches that, and if going Controller Wizard, you don't really need SA anyways.

[Andry]

Wow I watch a little bit of football and you guys have a bunch of different and interesting combos available! Oh I forgot pretty much any book WOTC makes is fine except BOVD and BOED. No Dragon Magazine. The campaign should to about 15-17.

Thanks for the help so far!

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Disable Device is Int-based. That said, I agree. No Dex on a Rogue/Wizard is meh.

And I still don't get why people always go AT. That's 14 skillpoints thrown to the wind. Sure, it gets fast Sneak Attack, but USS is only 1 point behind on that, and with Hunter's Eye matches that, and if going Controller Wizard, you don't really need SA anyways.

Ranged Prestidigitation and Impromptu Sneak Attack. And I don't like LOOSING caster levels for anything other than Divination as part of a class ability.

[Curmudgeon]

If the DM banned Craven, that pretty much makes sneak attack a losing proposition. So ignore combat, and concentrate on skills instead. Be a Changeling, and use the Changeling Wizard substitution levels on Races of Eberron, page 123. This focus on Divination, Transmutation, and Illusion spells emphasizes Rogueish spells.

Not every build has to be about combat potential.

[Thespianus]

Create a Rogue / Wizard based on Acid? Might not be the most effective combattant, but it could be fun. Say a Rogue 1/Focused Conjuration Specialist (Abrupt Jaunt will be your friend) with Able Learner. Theme the conjuration spells to acid (maybe apply Spell Thematics for fun flavor later on) and create a magic using Rogue who uses acid for all his lock-picking and disable device-related needs, reserve feat Acid Splatter, etc.

Go into Unseen Seer, get some more Sneak Attack-dice and read up on Acid Splash, Lesser Orb of Acid, etc. In short - Drop Acid all over the place. ;)

I'm sure the theme could be expanded on.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Just curious, why did he shoot down beguiler?

[Andry]

He shot down beguiler because he wants to be able to BLAST stuff. I have tried to explain that is not exactly the best way to get things accomplished but he really likes rolling many many d6's. He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed but he is the funniest guy in the world when he gets into character.

[Thespianus]

He shot down beguiler because he wants to be able to BLAST stuff. I have tried to explain that is not exactly the best way to get things accomplished but he really likes rolling many many d6's. He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed but he is the funniest guy in the world when he gets into character.

Then give him the Acid-blaster above, and enjoy him roleplaying an elderly rogue who always fiddles around with acids, magical or mundane, always with oozing stuff in his pack, grinning, muttering about the volatility of metals, etc...

When it comes to combat, he can "blast" with acid spells (or, even if it's a Fireball, Spell Thematics can make it look "acidy", and Energy Substitution Acis can make for a fun Metamagic feat)

And with a Focused Conjurer, you can make a LOT of fun Batmanny stuff too