Looking for some test characters/parties

[Triaxx]

While rummaging through some old materials, I happened across a couple of monsters that I never had a chance to test against a party. I threw them against a couple of test parties, but both parties either won, or lost everytime, mostly because I built both and know all the strengths and weaknesses in the monsters and characters.

Given that problem, I was hoping that the great players here could come up with some characters or parties useful for testing these monsters, but without seeing the entire stat block so as to not make it too easy.

The first is CR 9, Huge, Magical Beast with Good Fort and Reflex saves and bad Will. Will be encountered single, and as a pair.

The second is CR 16, Large, Monsterous Humanoid with Good Reflex and bad Fort and Will saves. Will be encountered as a single, two, three, and then a group of six.

No restrictions except: No cheese, No Pun-pun, no excessively broken tactics.

[Triaxx]

Nobody? Or did I just post at the wrong time of the week?

[Dixieboy]

Even if we give you a couple of great characters for this endeveour (Spelled?) it wouldn't really matter as YOU still know which tactics YOU'LL be using.

You'll need a couple of (your) players to help you out there.

[Chrono22]

Just post their stats here. I'm sure the collective experience of these boards will be more effective at balancing them than running a few tests.
While you're at it, post what the party composition is. How balanced a monster is depends highly on what types of challenges the party is built to overcome.

[Triaxx]

I've posted one up before and the response was negligible and the other was already balanced, but play testing is always required.

As for players, the last session we had ended a long running campaign of vengeance and betrayal, and they're all gearing up for a Star Wars game. So no one wants to have anything to do with D&D.

Anyway, the two parties I've thrown at the first are a Chain-tripping fighter, a Clericzilla, two sorcerors at level 9 each, and two Barbarians with greatswords, a Batman Wizard and a Paladin also at 9. They beat it pretty easily, far more easily than I expected.

The Parties thrown at the second, were four paladins, two wizards, a druid, a cleric and two Rangers, all at 16. They got trounced, though it was against three of them. A second test with two rangers using that funny Wizards bow that allows power attack, two Chain-tripping Barbarians, two rogues, a Wizard//Warlock, and two clerics. This one was built to take down all three, and it still got smashed.

But the stat blocks, since you asked:

Spoiler

Show

Creeper
Huge/Magical Beast
HD 6d10+5 (120+30)
Speed 60 ft. (12 squares)
Init: -1
AC 20; touch 20; flat-footed 19
(12 AC, 8 NA)
BAB +7; Grp +16
Attack Claw (Bludgeoning) +7 [Melee]
(2d4, 19-20/x2)
Full-Attack Full attack +7/+2 (2d4, 19-20/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Slam
Special Qualities Thick skin
Saves Fort +33 Ref +29 Will -1
Abilities Str 25, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 6, Cha 3
Skills Tumble
Feats Power Attack, Cleave
Environment Ruins
Organization Solitary, Pair 2, Troupe 6-10
Challenge Rating 9
Treasure 1200 gold
Alignment Always N
Advancement by HD
Level Adjustment +4

Slam (Ex): As part of a full attack a Creeper may throw itself against a target for 2d6 damage. A creeper may use it's Slam attack to initiate a Grapple.

Thick Skin (Su): The outer hide of a creeper is sufficiently thick so as to prevent arrows from doing damage, except with critical hits, and completely negates slings.

Spoiler

Show

Darknut
Large Monstrous Humanoid
HD 12d8 (86hp, 50+36)
Speed 10 ft. (2 squares), Armored; 30 ft (6 Squares), Unarmored
Init: INITIATIVE
AC 22; touch 11; flat-footed 10
(+8 Full Plate, +4 Tower Shield), Armored; 14; touch 14; flat-footed 10, Unarmored
BAB +13; Grp +8
Attack Standard attack +13
(1d10, 20/x2), Armored; Standard attack +13
(1d8, 19-20/x2), Unarmored
Full-Attack Full attack +13/+7/+2 (1d10, 20/x2), Armored Full attack +13/+7/+2 (1d8, 19-20/x2), Unarmored
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10t.
Special Attacks Throw Blade
Special Qualities
Saves Fort +7 Ref +12 Will +7
Abilities Str 20, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10
Skills Tumble, Bluff
Feats Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Shield Bash, Block Arrows
Environment Ruins
Organization Solitary (2 Patrol, 3 Gang, 6 Hammer)
Challenge Rating CR 16
Treasure Standard
Alignment Always Lawful
Advancement by TYPE
Level Adjustment +4

Throw Blade (Ex):When a Darknut sheds it's armor, it also sheds it's greatsword, usually by throwing it at it's opponent, and then draws a bastard sword. Darknut Greatswords are destroyed on impact, and are not considered improvised weapons. Darknuts are also considered proficient with their weapons. A reflex save is used to avoid the weapon. Failing the save, the weapon makes a ranged touch attack against the target.

Shed Armor (Ex): Darknuts do not take lethal damage while armored. Once a number of points equal to their HP plus twice their con modifier have been done, the Darknut shed's it's armor, and uses it's Throw Blade ability, typically targetting the closest enemy.

At first appearing to be nothing more than a statue, it comes to life as you approach, wearing heavy armor and wielding an immense two handed sword in a single hand, it advances slowly but surely, much as an avalanche.

You thought it defeated, it's armor falling away in pieces, but suddenly you must jump to the side as it's great blade whips past you, and it stands, again ready to engage in battle. It rushes you almost before you are ready.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, the Creeper's -1 Will Save makes it trivial.

[Chrono22]

Creeper
Huge/Magical Beast
HD 6d10+5 (120+30)
Speed 60 ft. (12 squares)
Init: -1
AC 20; touch 20; flat-footed 19
(12 AC, 8 NA)
BAB +7; Grp +16
Attack Claw (Bludgeoning) +7 [Melee]
(2d4, 19-20/x2)
Full-Attack Full attack +7/+2 (2d4, 19-20/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Slam
Special Qualities Thick skin
Saves Fort +33 Ref +29 Will -1
Abilities Str 25, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 6, Cha 3
Skills Tumble
Feats Power Attack, Cleave
Environment Ruins
Organization Solitary, Pair 2, Troupe 6-10
Challenge Rating 9
Treasure 1200 gold
Alignment Always N
Advancement by HD
Level Adjustment +4

Slam (Ex): As part of a full attack a Creeper may throw itself against a target for 2d6 damage. A creeper may use it's Slam attack to initiate a Grapple.

Thick Skin (Su): The outer hide of a creeper is sufficiently thick so as to prevent arrows from doing damage, except with critical hits, and completely negates slings.

It's HP make no sense in respect to its HD and con... or size for that matter. Look up some huge creatures in the DMG. Most of them have double digit HD.
The low HD mean low saves... which means this thing will be easy to defeat with magic... combine that with this creature's inordinately high HP to HD, and this won't be a balanced fight at all. Fighter-types and warriors will suffer against it (since it only has melee attacks). The mage can just fly around and shoot it to death. Or attack its intelligence score.
So, increase its HD (and saves, and attack bonus) so that it matches the HP. Leave its HP the same. Change its treasure entry to Standard. Give it improved grab and remove

Slam (Ex): As part of a full attack a Creeper may throw itself against a target for 2d6 damage. A creeper may use it's Slam attack to initiate a Grapple.

Leave slam in its entry as a natural attack.
Remove Thick Skin and any other references to it in the monster entry. Replace it with DR 10/melee, and a set of energy resistances.
Lastly, give it a burrow speed and blindsense...

Darknut
Large Monstrous Humanoid
HD 12d8 (86hp, 50+36)
Speed 10 ft. (2 squares), Armored; 30 ft (6 Squares), Unarmored
Init: INITIATIVE
AC 22; touch 11; flat-footed 10
(+8 Full Plate, +4 Tower Shield), Armored; 14; touch 14; flat-footed 10, Unarmored
BAB +13; Grp +8
Attack Standard attack +13
(1d10, 20/x2), Armored; Standard attack +13
(1d8, 19-20/x2), Unarmored
Full-Attack Full attack +13/+7/+2 (1d10, 20/x2), Armored Full attack +13/+7/+2 (1d8, 19-20/x2), Unarmored
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10t.
Special Attacks Throw Blade
Special Qualities
Saves Fort +7 Ref +12 Will +7
Abilities Str 20, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10
Skills Tumble, Bluff
Feats Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Shield Bash, Block Arrows
Environment Ruins
Organization Solitary (2 Patrol, 3 Gang, 6 Hammer)
Challenge Rating CR 16
Treasure Standard
Alignment Always Lawful
Advancement by TYPE
Level Adjustment +4

Throw Blade (Ex):When a Darknut sheds it's armor, it also sheds it's greatsword, usually by throwing it at it's opponent, and then draws a bastard sword. Darknut Greatswords are destroyed on impact, and are not considered improvised weapons. Darknuts are also considered proficient with their weapons. A reflex save is used to avoid the weapon. Failing the save, the weapon makes a ranged touch attack against the target.

Shed Armor (Ex): Darknuts do not take lethal damage while armored. Once a number of points equal to their HP plus twice their con modifier have been done, the Darknut shed's it's armor, and uses it's Throw Blade ability, typically targetting the closest enemy.

At first appearing to be nothing more than a statue, it comes to life as you approach, wearing heavy armor and wielding an immense two handed sword in a single hand, it advances slowly but surely, much as an avalanche.

You thought it defeated, it's armor falling away in pieces, but suddenly you must jump to the side as it's great blade whips past you, and it stands, again ready to engage in battle. It rushes you almost before you are ready.

This is mostly OK... but it's definitely not CR 16. More like, CR 9 or 10. Maybe even 8... it doesn't have any abilities that are unique. It's just an oversize fighter really.
It's described as looking like being made of stone... give it a hardness. DR 10/adamantine should work. Give it darkvision too.

[Triaxx]

Sorry, I forgot fluff for the Creeper.

From the forest before you, a six-legged metal and flesh monstrosity breaks free and charges, several long tentacles trail from the back, and arrows seem to bounce off.

The HD is flat out wrong if you notice the math. Should be 60+30, which is still high, but not as bad. Thick skin is because I just flat-out do not like DR if I can avoid it. And these shouldn't be thrown at mages anyway. These are things you put at the front of the army to chew through the lesser ranks of melee fighter, which is why it's so heavily armored against archers and so deadly in a melee.

Burrow wouldn't be much help, but I think you're right about Blindsense.

Forgot all about Improved Grab when I did this. It's been a while ago though. It does fit better.

Darknut:

I decided to discount magical weakness in the formula, because everything that's not outright immune to magic simply fails it's Save or Die and dies. So the fighters get to do twice it's HP in damage, then they get to start doing actual damage.

Spoiler

Show

Creeper
Huge/Magical Beast
HD 6d10+5 (60+30)
Speed 60 ft. (12 squares)
Init: -1
AC 20; touch 20; flat-footed 19
(12 AC, 8 NA)
BAB +7; Grp +16
Attack Claw (Bludgeoning) +7 [Melee]
(2d4, 19-20/x2)
Full-Attack Full attack +7/+2 (2d4, 19-20/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks Slam
Special Qualities Thick skin, Blindsense
Saves Fort +33 Ref +29 Will -1
Abilities Str 25, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 6, Cha 3
Skills Tumble
Feats Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Grab
Environment Ruins
Organization Solitary, Pair 2, Troupe 6-10
Challenge Rating 9
Treasure 1200 gold
Alignment Always N
Advancement by HD
Level Adjustment +4

Thick Skin (Su): The outer hide of a creeper is sufficiently thick so as to prevent arrows from doing damage, except with critical hits, and completely negates slings.

From the forest before you, a six-legged metal and flesh monstrosity breaks free and charges, several long tentacles trail from the back, and arrows seem to bounce off.

[Foryn Gilnith]

If I were an archer, it would be really painful to get an automatic lose to all my combat ability. Wind Wall is bad enough, but an insurmountable melee ability? I think I'll die and reroll a caster.

You can't just completely dump saves and their ilk because some magic is overpowered. Decent saves give a decent chance of surviving a Save or Die (key word there is "or"), making it into sort of a challenge. Hoping for the ideal scenario (melee combat only) is not a sound strategy, as casters might randomly be anywhere. They'd certainly be in a test party.

PS: Hell, screw casters; melee-types can force fear effects (Will saves) with Intimidate-based abilities.

[Triaxx]

I know, and usually I only break it out when there's a particular archer character that's one shotting targets otherwise presenting a challenge. Golem? Dies to a round of arrows. Damn Crab? Dies to a round of arrows. This goes down to magic, or melee, but the archers have to hope for crits. Brings them down a few notches.

'Or' is not much help even with excellent saves. It just means they have to fire a second spell before you die instantly. And you'll notice I did throw mages at it, as well as a clericzilla. You might throw it at the Fellowship of the Rings, but probably not against Elminster.

Makes a good advantage for them then, since this is a melee monster, of the other kind.

[PhoenixRivers]

Problem with the creeper:

Stats:
Con: 16 (+3)
Dex: 8 (-1)
Wis: 6 (-2)

Base Saves for Magical beasts with 6 HD:
Fort: +5
Ref: +5
Will: +2

{table=header]Calculated Saves | Entry Saves
Fort: +8 | +33
Ref: +4 | +29
Will: +0 | -1[/table]

This shows the creature as having a +25 Fort bonus that is not explained.
Reflex has the same +25 bonus.
Will saves have an additional -1 penalty.

[Eldariel]

Is there a reason you haven't calculated Str into To Hit and Damage? Also, are these intended to actually be faced by a party, or...?

[Mushroom Ninja]

It would be helpful if you would factor STR into the attack bonuses and damages of your monsters.

[Medic]

Creeper definitely needs at least blindsense.

No group is going to forget to blind along a glitterdust. With that will save the fight would be over before it starts.

The Darknut is a walk over for CR 16. It has less than 100 hp. Any charging build will one hit that thing.