Animal companions/ships for a druid in an aquatic campaign?

[Milskidasith]

Ok, I'm about to join an aquatic campaign, but I can't really pick what I want as my animal companion for a druid (I was thinking about Polar Bear.) Plus, I'd like to get a ship; everybody gets Leadership as a bonus feat, but all you start with at base is a crappy one person boat (1/3rd the statistics of a keelboat. >_<)

Here is what I have to work with:

• Level 7.
• Leadership (for crew members) or getting a swim speed and water breathing as a bonus feat.
• Natural Bond can let me get an animal companion that has a -level at higher powers (so I can get a crocodile with no level adjustment, for example.)
• 150 K total, although I'd like to spend at least some on personal items. I'd probably like a lot of it to be based on the ship, though, especially if I could use the ship to keep myself safe.
• And, if it matters, my rolled stats were 18, 18, 17, 17, 16, 14. I was kind of lucky...

I'm completely unfamiliar with Stormwrack, and while I have the book, I've never played it, so I'm going to have more trouble with the ship thing than with the animal companion thing; I'm probably just going to go with a Polar Bear, since it seems exceptionally good, unless there is a good and more purely aquatic companion I can take.

[sofawall]

StrongholdBuilder'sGuide.
Well, I like Sea Tigers, just because, for whatever, my book likes turning to that page.

[Kylarra]

Elasmosaurus could be your boat.

[Milskidasith]

Riding a giant dinosaur as my boat? That sounds... really awesome, actually. Then again, I'm not sure if the DM would allow it. It also might not fit that many people. :P If I did take it, what feats would you recommend it have? Improved Natural Attack? Swim By Attack?

[Godskook]

Just require your followers be swimmers of some sort.

DFAs get a first level invocation that's relevant. And then there's races with swim speeds. I'm sure there's multiple other ways of getting it.

[Milskidasith]

True, but I wouldn't have all the nifty ship items; I couldn't have cannons attached to my dinosaur... or could I?

*Thinks about that Dinowaurs game I saw on Kongregate*

Wow. That would be pretty awesome.

[Eldariel]

Why bother with a ship? You're a level 7 Druid, you can swim 21 hours (and spend the remaining 3 hours on a surface; next level you can cover all 24 hours).

Anyways, purely combat-wise, Squids and Octopuses are the most frightening things in the ocean. Squid is available on level 1. So yeah, if you don't find Tentacle Monsters icky, Squid is a friggin' awesome option.

Other than that, Sharks, Dinosaurs and company are servicable. Polar Bear is a very respectable option, but it needs magical assistance if you ever need to go underwater given it breathes air (which will probably happen a lot), meaning it's at a huge disadvantage in aquatic combat. It's also slow as far as aquatic creatures go.

It has the advantage of being completely amphibious though, being able to follow you to ground without shapechanging magic (which might be hugely disorienting for animals).

True, but I wouldn't have all the nifty ship items; I couldn't have cannons attached to my dinosaur... or could I?

*Thinks about that Dinowaurs game I saw on Kongregate*

Wow. That would be pretty awesome.

Next you'll be telling us you want it to shoot lasers out of its eyes. Cannons are nice and all, but Squid (or big enough You as a squid) can easily crush ships; again, not being able to go underwater is a huge disadvantage at the sea. It's like not being able to fly in normal campaigns. Hell, just about and aquatic creature could destroy ships quite easily by attacking from below.

[Milskidasith]

Well, I want a ship because it would be pretty awesome... plus, leadership as a free bonus feat would go to waste if I was just swimming. Also, there would be other players in the campaign, and we can pool our money on a ship, and while everybody could ride my giant dinoship, I'm not sure if they would like it.

EDIT: Also, a regular squid has one attack that does almost no damage, and another attack that has a low attack bonus and can grapple. Seems... meh.

[Eldariel]

Well, I want a ship because it would be pretty awesome... plus, leadership as a free bonus feat would go to waste if I was just swimming. Also, there would be other players in the campaign, and we can pool our money on a ship, and while everybody could ride my giant dinoship, I'm not sure if they would like it.

Surely you could just get a bunch of Merfolk followers through the Leadership? Either way, if you want the ship, I think you'd still want an aquatic companion if only because one is incredibly useful for protecting ships and spotting in water. Hell, I can't imagine you not wanting to spend a good deal of time off-board yourself.

But yeah, ships are cool. Get a submarine if you can. If not, just get as big a thing as you can and reinforce the bottom as possible; D&D surface isn't quite as safe as real world surface ('cause unlike in real world, hugely intelligent aquatic beasts exist and they aren't afraid to sink ships or hit from below).

EDIT: Also, a regular squid has one attack that does almost no damage, and another attack that has a low attack bonus and can grapple. Seems... meh.

Hm, true. I totally overlooked that the arms are rolled into one attack. It's still an insane grappler (thanks to the +4 racial bonus), but not as good as I expected. I suppose that leaves Polar Bear as the best option; just have Waterbreathing prepared a lot and teach it to dive.

You can have Giant Octopus on 10 (if you can take 3 levels higher creatures thanks to Natural Bond, that is), btw, which does have the real deal as far as attacks go.

[Godskook]

Well, I want a ship because it would be pretty awesome... plus, leadership as a free bonus feat would go to waste if I was just swimming.

Not if you find enough reasonable ways to have amphibious followers/cohorts. You could be the group's underwater division.

Now, don't you have a game to DM?

[Milskidasith]

I could get merfolk with leadership, I suppose. I might even put one of my 18s in charisma for a bonus to my leadership score. (probably not, since that's only one more companion).

I think a large shark would be the best actual aquatic companion, but an Elasmosaurus seems pretty powerful in combat, though it can only stay underwater for 22 hours. Then again, if I have a bunch of aquatic followers, it could still fight, just not scout.

[Eldariel]

EDIT: Also, a regular squid has one attack that does almost no damage, and another attack that has a low attack bonus and can grapple. Seems... meh.

Hm, true. I totally overlooked that the arms are rolled into one attack. It's still an insane grappler (thanks to the +4 racial bonus), but not as good as I expected. I suppose that leaves Polar Bear as the best option; just have Waterbreathing prepared a lot and teach it to dive.

You can have Giant Octopus on 10 (if you can take 3 levels higher creatures thanks to Natural Bond, that is), btw, which does have the real deal as far as attacks go.


Note that Waterbreathing effectively lasts all day when cast on a single creature so while having couple of extras (in case of Dispels and such) is pivotal, just one Chained Waterbreathing makes the entire team capable of going underwater as necessary.

[Milskidasith]

Admiral's Bicorne is expensive (one third my wealth) but a +5 on leadership means I get a huge increase in followers for my ship. Would it be worth it, or not? Also, how do I get a ship that works underwater?

EDIT: Also, what skills do I need to be a captain of a ship?

[Eldariel]

You can't chain it since it's a touch spell, but I can give 14 hours of water breathing total to all creatures touched; if I have to go into combat, a ship of a few people could easily get in the water for a few hours.

You can Reach Spell it, then Chain it; you need to learn Reach Spell, of course. Same trick works with Greater Magic Fang (use Rod of Chain Spell [MiC has reasonable price]), which I warmly suggest if you get yourself an Octopus (casting Greater Magic Fang 8 times per day puts quite the strain on even the resources of a level 10 Druid).

As for Bicorne, if you get Craft Wondrous Items, sure. Otherwise, not yet. And submergible vehicles exist...in some book. There's also a spell (may be a Wizard-spell) that effectively turns a vehicle into a submarine, probably in Spell Compendium.

EDIT: Also, what skills do I need to be a captain of a ship? Also, how do I get a ship that works underwater?

Profession: Sailor is the big one. You also can't get by without Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Geography) and Survival can be handy too. And obviously, as a captain, you are assumed to be the talker of the ship too, so Diplomacy, Bluff & Intimidate (along with Sense Motive) are all relevant.

I could see Swim being quite useful, along with the skills needed to actually run the ship: Balance ('cause ships are unstable by default), Climb, Use Rope & Profession: Siege Engineer. Maybe Profession: Merchant too if you're interested in that sort of stuff. The good news is that a lot of relevant stuff (Professions, Survival & Sense Motive) are derived off your Wisdom which is pretty good.

Really, as a captain, I'd focus on having good Cha and Wis and just put some ranks in the skills for running the thing (though most are Dex-derived; Str only governs Swim & Climb and you can do most climbing by flying and swimming with Freedom of Movement + Waterbreathing or shapeshifting). Luckily most of the relevant skills are in-class (unfortunately Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive are not). You could perhaps try some feat to assist there like Nymph's Kiss (really helps with all the diplomacy skills and extra points just help overall) or some Apprenticeships or some such.

[Milskidasith]

Wouldn't an Admiral's Bicorn let me hire people who could do all that? With a leadership score of 16 or 15 from it, I could get around 25 companions. It would cost a pretty penny, but I don't really need many items as a druid. I'm not really sure how generally I can recruit people, but I think I could get a few siege engineers, sailors, people who can navigate, etc. Maybe the third and second level companions could be spellcasters.

[Eldariel]

Wouldn't an Admiral's Bicorn let me hire people who could do all that? With a leadership score of 16 or 15 from it, I could get around 25 companions. It would cost a pretty penny, but I don't really need many items as a druid.

Sure, and others would do all it, but you need Profession: Sailor, Knowledge: Nature, Knowledge: Geography & Survival as the captain, and how the hell are you expecting anyone but the captain of the boat to do negotiations? You're not, so you should damn well take some conversational skills too (Diplomacy is in class for Druids, just FYI).

Then Balance is just a matter of convenience; the ship is rocking and nobody can stay up for you, you gotta do it yourself. The rest, yeah, other people will do them. However, it's not really inspiring to have a captain who can't tell his ropes or ballistas apart, and if something bad happens (like you get attacked which might happen quite a bit in D&D) and crewmen die, you're the ultimate backup.

[Godskook]

@Eldariel, a Queen Amidala setup with a party-face cohort would do the trick.

[Eldariel]

@Eldariel, a Queen Amidala setup with a party-face cohort would do the trick.

Mayhap. But given Druids can afford a lot of points in mental stats thanks to Wildshape, it's generally doable, especially on higher PB, to at least max out Diplomacy.

By the way, if you're a Human, do pick up Able Learner. You'll want a lot of different cross-class skills so it really saves you points.

[Milskidasith]

True. I probably don't need them maxed, just with a few ranks, correct? Profession Sailor will be maxed, and so will knowledge nature, spellcraft, concentration, swim (maybe not, since I can just pick a form that can swim,), and diplomacy which leaves me with 2/3 skill points every level to distribute to my other captaining skills.

Also, Able Learner seems to be a good idea, but how many cross class skills will I need? Bluff and such, true, but the professions are class skills and I can get by pretty well with 18 cha and a +5 bonus to all of them from my hat, plus it doesn't hurt that I also have great diplomacy.

[Eldariel]

You don't need Spellcraft maxed out unless you plan on being a Battlemage; its only use to a Druid is to identify others' spells.

Profession: Sailor, Knowledge: Geography, Knowledge: Nature and Concentration should absolutely be maxed out. Unfortunately Geography isn't in class for you (it's used to set a course and it's gonna be a huge bummer if you botch that one up), but make do. Survival is very handy; at least get the 5 ranks, the "always know where north is" is absolutely pivotal in the open seas.

You need enough ranks in Handle Animal to train your animal companion; whatever you need to reach +10 (counting the +4 from Handling your AC) is sufficient to take 10 on the training. Maxing out Swim is a good idea; Swim is used to escape water hazards in addition to just swimming so even if you're in a swimmer form, the Swim-ranks can come in handy. Also, cross-class max Balance; it'll be really, really bad if you fall over just when the ship is attacked.


You should be able to pull off any necessary Heal, Profession: Siege Engineering & Profession: Merchant checks on your Wisdom alone. Might wanna toss a rank or two to represent your experience in these matters though.

Note that spells can cover most of what you need, but in case you end up Dead Magic, you'll want to be able to function without. And yeah, max out Diplomacy. I'd crossclass max Sense Motive if I had the points; thanks to your Wis, you can do quite alright even though it's a crossclass skill. And Intimidate and Bluff, even just a couple of points, are always handy.

Also, as a captain, Spot can be very useful given it's used to scout for land, other ships and such. Usually not your job, but it's your job to verify whatever the resident mastman saw and what to do about it.


So cross-class:
Bluff
Intimidate
Sense Motive
Knowledge: Geography
Balance


Also, Tumble is ever-useful.

[Godskook]

I think you'll want your swim speed maxed out, unless you've got another way of getting a non-magical swim speed. The last thing you need is to be a antimagic-kill target(can wildshape be dispelled? that'd make swim even more important).

[Milskidasith]

So Able Learner seems to be my option then.

That would leave me with, at 7th level, and with stats 18 wis, 18 cha, 16 int...

80 skill points total:

2 ranks in handle animal.
5 ranks in Knowledge: Geography
5 ranks in Survival.
10 ranks in Concentration
10 ranks in Profession: Sailor
10 ranks in Knowledge: Nature
5 ranks in Sense Motive
5 ranks in Balance
5 ranks in Bluff
5 ranks in Intimidate
10 ranks in Swim

That's 72 ranks, so I have 8 ranks for spellcraft, Siege Engineering, and Merchant. Probably going to go with, say...

5 ranks Siege Engineering.
2 ranks Spellcraft
1 rank Heal.

EDIT: And then I still could use Balance and Spot. Not sure what I need to cut for that.

And then I'll go for the money minded Druid Pirate, leading his crew on wonderful adventures and killing the hell out of everything. Yay!

EDIT: Also, with 100k left, and an effective crew of 30 with leadership (though my cohort and level 3 and 2 people are probably going to be more magical repairmen and buffers than sailors), what kind of ship should I get, and what magic items and such should it have? Air weed (or whatever the 25 GP thing that lets you breathe water for 5 minutes) would be useful, I know.

[Eldariel]

Actually, be Old. With those stats, your Str will then be 11, Con 14, Dex 14 and your mentals will skyrocket. 20 Int, 20 Wis and 18 Cha looks pretty good (I suggest it like that since Capt'n likes skill points, as we have concluded).

With your position of Captain, it only makes sense, and you'll still be physically fit enough to kick anyone's ass.

[Milskidasith]

That would be impressive, I admit. I suppose I could fluff I've had a lot of adventures to build up my fortune (I wrote it as I inherited my magical hat.)

[Jergmo]

True, but I wouldn't have all the nifty ship items; I couldn't have cannons attached to my dinosaur... or could I?

*Thinks about that Dinowaurs game I saw on Kongregate*

Wow. That would be pretty awesome.

DINO RIDERS!!!

Spoiler

Show

[Milskidasith]

That is a nice picture.

So now that I've got my skill points distributed (with the extras from 20 int, I could get max ranks in spot and upgrade my siege engineer so I autosucceed, or give myself some tumble, or both, really), I just need to buy a ship.

Also, can you tumble underwater? Tumbling sharks, whee!

[Godskook]

Good captains don't do everything themselves. They delegate.

A dragonfire adept will probably make the best knowledge monkey you can get, freeing up 15 skillpoints right there(They get a +6 to all knowledge checks for the cost of an invocation). In a level, you can have him pick up extra invocation, and he becomes the party air conditioner, as well as the knowledge monkey(assuming your first two invocations were aquatic adaption and draconic knowledge. Endure exposure is necessary in the long run for a DFA, and you don't want to spend his higher invocation slots on it).

Can you tell I'm on a DFA kick these days?

[Eldariel]

One skill you still lack is Use Rope. You should really get 3 ranks; with 14 Dex that allows you to Take 10 to do all the activities you need on a boat. Also, as per Cityscape Web Enhancement, you can trade Ride for Tumble (which is pretty obvious for a Pirate IMHO). This has no practical meaning, except it increases your max Tumble ranks, which could prove handy, but as you won't be picking up Ride anyways...

@Godskook: I'd personally want to have the capacity to do a decent job at any task; that way I can better appraise how good the underlings are doing (and who to hire for the job), I'm more like to be respected by the underlings and I can take over if some are injured or killed. Besides, have you honestly ever heard of a captain who started off as a captain? Basically all have the background of a mariner.

[Milskidasith]

Good captains don't do everything themselves. They delegate.

A dragonfire adept will probably make the best knowledge monkey you can get, freeing up 15 skillpoints right there(They get a +6 to all knowledge checks for the cost of an invocation). In a level, you can have him pick up extra invocation, and he becomes the party air conditioner, as well as the knowledge monkey(assuming your first two invocations were aquatic adaption and draconic knowledge. Endure exposure is necessary in the long run for a DFA, and you don't want to spend his higher invocation slots on it).

Can you tell I'm on a DFA kick these days?

I'm planning on going straight druid, and I can't get a Polar Bear or a dinosaur if I start with a level in DFA, and well... I don't know where I'll find a giant dinosaur to tame. Polar Bear is still mechanically better, but... a giant dinosaur! If the DM allows it, I'd really like that.

[Godskook]

I'm planning on going straight druid, and I can't get a Polar Bear or a dinosaur if I start with a level in DFA, and well... I don't know where I'll find a giant dinosaur to tame. Polar Bear is still mechanically better, but... a giant dinosaur! If the DM allows it, I'd really like that.

I was suggesting a DFA cohort, not multiclassing.

@Godskook: I'd personally want to have the capacity to do a decent job at any task; that way I can better appraise how good the underlings are doing (and who to hire for the job), I'm more like to be respected by the underlings and I can take over if some are injured or killed. Besides, have you honestly ever heard of a captain who started off as a captain? Basically all have the background of a mariner.

1.A high sense motive is all you really need to know if someone is doing their job right.

2.Are you speaking of real captains or fantasy captains? Cause if its the latter, Dread Pirate Roberts and Monkey D. Luffy both come to mind off the top of my head. Also, I'm not suggesting he drop Profession(Sailor), just the Knowledge skills. Any Know(Nature) skills that'd be picked up by a climb-the-ranks captain should be covered by Prof(Sailor).