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2009-10-21, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
It was pointed out on one of the threads last week that the Beholder Mage PrC probably has the best spellcasting progression ever. It's a 10 level fast progression PrC that get's 9th level spells drawn from the Sor/Wiz list.
What makes it interesting is it combines the best features of Sorcerer and Wizard all in one package: They get the spells/day, no spell book, and spontaneous casting of a sorcerer, along with the wizard's Intelligence focus and ability to memorize and add from scrolls/spellbooks to their spells known so the number of spells they can have is effectively limitless. In addition, they never use/pay material component costs, instead drawing from 1/5th that amount of XP when a spell would require an expensive component.
The way the requirements are worded, all that a true beholder needs to do to qualify is put out their central anti-magic eye. This means a beholder could take this class at level one. It also states that as the Beholder Mage gains levels, it surrenders the use of it's eye stalks to cast each new level of spells, so you probably need to have eyestalks to cast Beholder Mage spells.
Now here's the fun rules challenge. By RAW you can't play a beholder as a PC race, because their Level Adjustment is listed as - in the Monster Manual. You probably wouldn't want to anyway, since they have 11 levels of Aberration racial HD. Is there some other way to meet this classes requirements as a player character and steal this method of spellcasting? More of a theoretical exercise, because it's likely way OP'ed... what with being more powerful than a wizard and sorcerer and all.
There's a Beholder Crown I know about in Magic Item Compendium that you might he able to technically qualify as eyestalks, but I'm stuck with the putting out a central antimagic eye part. Any ideas?
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2009-10-21, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
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2009-10-21, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
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2009-10-21, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
The Telepathy Power True Mind Switch would do it. You need to find a suitable beholder, of course, and you either need to be a Psion(Telepath)-17, of course, or get a Power Stone of it and either have lots of ranks in UMD/UPD, or have it on your class list and make the check. You could also potentially get it in a Dorje or Psicrown. In a similar vein, with Mind Seed a copy of you could do so.
If you turn into a beholder (Polymorph Any Object, or any number of other methods, as stated), you could use the Metamorphic Transfer feat to pick up the ability so that you can lose it.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2009-10-21 at 05:54 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2009-10-21, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
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2009-10-21, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
Last edited by Thane of Fife; 2009-10-21 at 05:49 PM.
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2009-10-21, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
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2009-10-21, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2009-10-21, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
Well, if that's your only problem, a single Polymorph Any Object can Permanently turn you into a Beholder if you're an Elan with an Int of 17 or better (Same Kingdom: Animal (+5 DF). Same Class: Aberration (+2 DF). Same or lower int: 17 (+2 DF) for +9 DF: Permanent Polymorph).
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2009-10-21, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
I would dispute that Aberration is a Class - the examples given are "mammals, fungi, metals, etc."
Those are clearly not the same as types - bears and lizards are Animals, but of different class, while humans and bears are Humanoids and Animals respectively, but same class. And looking at Elan and Beholders, I think you'd be hard-pressed to call them the same class.A System-Independent Creative Community:
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2009-10-21, 06:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-21, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
Also, in lords of madness is explained that aberrations are creatures just too alien to anything normaly known to mortals, yet most of the aberrations have very diferent origins.
Some formed naturaly and just hapened to go in a completely twisted way, others have existed before the known gods themselves, others come from galaxies/planes very very far away, and other still just shouldn't exist, like the mindflayers, wich aparently created themselves by traveling en masse from the future to the past, self-engineering their own species.
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2009-10-21, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
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2009-10-21, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
Maybe humans were used as the basic block, but they've been changed so much that I really doubt you can still put them in the same class. Mindflayers don't have hair or mammary glands for one. They also need permanent moisture to stay alive. It's clear they have gone a long way from their human hosts.
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2009-10-21, 08:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
That's largely the issue with PAO though - it tries to use RL terms to define a creature when the spell would be much better suited with in-game terms such as creature type and subtype.
I personally heavily dislike the PAO x2 trick, since even though I understand the technical mostly-rules-legality of the spell checking your current state, instantaneous duration, etc, it's something that is both so nebulous and powerful that nearly every experienced DM would house-rule without thinking twice. It's like the Wish spell - too easy a mark to really optimize, and too easy for any DM to simply say no.
Elan w/17 int, on the other hand, represents a significant investment for the character (race, intelligence, GP), and I think is more arguable, depending on whether you agree that it is the same "class", which I could see going either way. You'd probably still need Assume Supernatural Ability (SS) (which means 13 wis as well) or some other method to gain an actual functioning antimagic eye to put out as opposed to a "dead" eye. And Imp. Assume Sup. Ability (wis 17) unless you want a permanent -2 to skills, attacks, saves, and whatnot.
Do any beholder sub-races actually have an LA, even if it puts them in the ECL 15+ range?Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
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2009-10-21, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
There's a feat in the third party book, Bastards & Bloodlines, that lets you count as the member of any race for all purposes, called Old Blood. Now you just need a way to get eyestalks. The ones from Fiend Folio cost 200,000 gp a piece, though.
The most OP part of Beholder Mage is the casting 10 spells/round as a free action.
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2009-10-21, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-21, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...97468#msg97468
Beholder Folk playable race
problem is, no anti-magic eye (graft fixes that, though) and they have an ecl of 13...
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2009-10-22, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Breaking and Entering into Beholder Mage spellcasting
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2009-10-22, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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