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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    I was messing around and came up with a 4 step process to achieve pretty much complete immortality (as in not aging or dieing of old age) and pretty much complete invulnerability (as in not dieing of things like suns going nova).

    Step 1: Create a Permanent Prismatic Sphere
    Step 2: Use Craft Contingent Spell to create a Contingent Dispel Magic with the activation condition of "My Astral Projection spell is ended in a during a round that I haven't previously said "hop ho endo asto projectiono donko""
    Step 3: Cast Astral Projection (while outside the sphere)
    Step 4: Travel back to your real body and place it inside of the Prismatic Sphere
    Step 5: Cast Temporal Stasis on your physical body.
    Step 6: Go adventuring

    When your Astral Projection ends, your contingency goes off and dispels the Temporal Stasis and you just recast the spells. Thanks to the Prismatic Sphere's Blue layer your body is impossible to find with divination's. Thanks to the other levels the only way to get to your body after you find the PS is pretty much with a disjunction or a rod of cancellation.

    If you want more protection, place AMF traps around your Prismatic Sphere.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Harperfan7's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Congratulations.

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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    The question is... why couldn't your body just be physically stumbled upon?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

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    I started my first campaign around a campfire, having pancakes. They were blueberry.
    My homebrew(updated 6/17):

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    The question is... why couldn't your body just be physically stumbled upon?
    Inside the Prismatic Sphere, which would kill anyone trying to get. The Sphere could be stumbled upon, but that's why you hide it. Where and how depends on the setting and world.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Emperor Tippy's 4-step processes. Now with 50% more steps.

    You can be killed if the silver chord connecting you to your body is severed. Not sure if you can really go adventuring in astral form, except on the astral plane, unless there's something I've missed.
    Trust me. I'm a geologist.

    My/Friends' Homebrew.

    Home on the Range? Bright light city gonna set your soul on fire? Or were you born to be wild? Americana-Punk wants YOU to contribute your homebrew!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Hide it in a random, decently-large air pocket left behind in the earth's crust. Or somewhere in Pandemonium, or whatever. Or make your secret underground bunker yourself.

    If they kill you long and hard enough you might run out of jacinth or crafting materials, but this seems fairly solid.

    In D&D, how do you propose to look for "where something could be"?
    Last edited by Foryn Gilnith; 2009-10-24 at 05:02 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    A deity can use Divine Blast to destroy the sphere- and the body inside.

    More defenses are needed than that in a D&D world.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Inside the Prismatic Sphere, which would kill anyone trying to get. The Sphere could be stumbled upon, but that's why you hide it. Where and how depends on the setting and world.
    A prismatic sphere is one fortitude save and two will save or dies. Not exactly an autokill.

    Also, this just doesn't work.

    You can pass into and out of the prismatic sphere and remain near it without harm. However, when you’re inside it, the sphere blocks any attempt to project something through the sphere (including spells). Other creatures that attempt to attack you or pass through suffer the effects of each color, one at a time.
    I think that astral projection counts as projecting a spell through the sphere, does it not?

    As for how to look for where it could be... you just find all the areas you can't actually divine the info to. Not really hard, though time consuming.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-10-24 at 05:04 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by cheezewizz2000 View Post
    Emperor Tippy's 4-step processes. Now with 50% more steps.
    It was 4 steps until I decided to lay it out even more precisely.

    You can be killed if the silver chord connecting you to your body is severed. Not sure if you can really go adventuring in astral form, except on the astral plane, unless there's something I've missed.
    Nope, that's what the Temporal Stasis is for. You are protected.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    A deity can use Divine Blast to destroy the sphere- and the body inside.

    More defenses are needed than that in a D&D world.
    Yes, if a deity want's you dead it requires extreme measures. As in "Kill all of the gods" level.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    I'm still pretty sure the silver cord counts as a projection (it is astral projection) preventing you from actually being in a prismatic sphere while you are astrally projecting. Not sure, though.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    A prismatic sphere is one fortitude save and two will save or dies. Not exactly an autokill.
    I wasn't being specific.

    Also, this just doesn't work.

    I think that astral projection counts as projecting a spell through the sphere, does it not?
    That is why you cast Astral Projection from outside of the sphere and then drop your body into it after preparing it.

    As for how to look for where it could be... you just find all the areas you can't actually divine the info to. Not really hard, though time consuming.
    It would take a very long time and be a pain as the only way to do it is to play 20 questions with a grid map of the world and ask "Are their any locations in this area that you can't find?" And even that is iffy.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    That is why you cast Astral Projection from outside of the sphere and then drop your body into it after preparing it.
    You are still projecting from inside the field, meaning as soon as you put your body in the field, your astral projection disappears.

    It would take a very long time and be a pain as the only way to do it is to play 20 questions with a grid map of the world and ask "Are their any locations in this area that you can't find?" And even that is iffy.
    Being "invincible and invulnerable" and being a pain to find by requiring seven spells and another dispel magic cast to destroy your body are not the same thing.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-10-24 at 05:10 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Problem with your plan.

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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    So it doesn't work because you can't project through a prismatic sphere (it specifies when your body is inside, so when you enter, it starts working again, and Astral Projection isn't instantaneous, so the projecting is still going on) and even if it did, you aren't really invincible, unfindable (or even hard to find, at that level), or immortal.

    Score: People against Tippy: 1. Tippy: Aleph-Null.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Problem with your plan.
    That's what you use a CL 1 million scroll of Prismatic Sphere for. They can't make the caster level check.

    @Milskidasith

    Perhaps. Close enough for government work. If you want to be truly invincible you have to start messing around with time.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    That's what you use a CL 1 million scroll of Prismatic Sphere for. They can't make the caster level check.

    @Milskidasith

    Perhaps. Close enough for government work. If you want to be truly invincible you have to start messing around with time.
    Wait, if we are using CL 1 million scrolls, aren't we, at this point, so far into epic spells that using non-epic spells is kind of worthless? I mean, at that point, the psion just uses a CL 1 million Dojre (or whatever their scrolls are) of Metafaculty. Or they both start using Epic Spells and in the end we wind up with... the Tippyverse 2: Electric Bugaloo.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    You can just Wish up any magic item. A CL one million scroll is a magic item. There's some critter (the name escapes me) that auto-makes UMD checks. You can get this ability via Shapechange. So there's your silly Prismatic Sphere.

    Have you considered the possibility of your Astral Projected self getting Mindraped or Dominated or similar? Of course you'll have a Mind Blank up, and a Disjunction might also remove you entirely via dispelling the Astral Projection, but there are ways around these things. Shatter Mindblank, for one.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    That's a fine phylactery, particularly for the caster that doesn't want that pesky level adjustment.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    There was a paranoid wizard thread somewhere that used most of this plan, but it substituted the sphere with a demiplane, warded against detection, forbidden acces inside even to dieties via magik, wizard surrounded by simulacrums of solars or something, wizard in stasys with astral projection on the material plane going on adventures and the silver thread covered in quintencence. Or so i remember.
    **** Photobucket ; RIP avatars

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Is there a reason you don't place your sphere in your permanency mage's sanctum? Or is that just too obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayar View Post
    There was a paranoid wizard thread somewhere that used most of this plan, but it substituted the sphere with a demiplane, warded against detection, forbidden acces inside even to dieties via magik, wizard surrounded by simulacrums of solars or something, wizard in stasys with astral projection on the material plane going on adventures and the silver thread covered in quintencence. Or so i remember.
    Prior to the level 1 million scroll, this is a fine alternative.
    Last edited by BobVosh; 2009-10-24 at 06:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    You do know each color of a prismatic sphere can be dispelled in turn. Thus enabling anyone who found it to eventually crack it and kill you?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    This is good, Tippy! It's a very strong defense. You need more, though. In particular, assuming your sphere can be found (you've ruled out divination, but divination immunity won't protect you from, say, being captured and interrogated until you divulge its location), it's not a strong enough defense for your body. In particular, a caster with a stone golem can simply order the golem to enter the sphere and retrieve anything found within.

    Perhaps instead of temporal stasis, you could build a miniature home for yourself, encase it in a sphere of adamantine or something, then use binding (minimus containment) to trap yourself within it. From there you could use astral projection to send a projection of yourself out to adventure. Protecting the sphere imprisoning your original self would still be an issue, however....

    Edit: Assuming you can create a truly invulnerable protection for your body, you'd also want to erase your own memories so that even you don't know where it's kept. That way its location can't be pulled from your mind.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2009-10-24 at 07:49 PM.

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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Considering he can't project while his body is in the sphere, you have more problems than simply protecting the sphere; the sphere itself cannot exist.

    Nothing, however, prevents casting multiple permanent Prismatic Walls into the shape of a cube. RAW rules!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    You can just Wish up any magic item. A CL one million scroll is a magic item. There's some critter (the name escapes me) that auto-makes UMD checks. You can get this ability via Shapechange. So there's your silly Prismatic Sphere.

    Have you considered the possibility of your Astral Projected self getting Mindraped or Dominated or similar? Of course you'll have a Mind Blank up, and a Disjunction might also remove you entirely via dispelling the Astral Projection, but there are ways around these things. Shatter Mindblank, for one.
    But... that doesn't work... that scroll would cost millions of gold....

    Wish has a 25k limit. I mean, you can try for more, but you may a well try wishing that the enemy wizard just die of loneliness.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Considering he can't project while his body is in the sphere, you have more problems than simply protecting the sphere; the sphere itself cannot exist.

    Nothing, however, prevents casting multiple permanent Prismatic Walls into the shape of a cube. RAW rules!
    He puts himself inside afterwards. Its part of the fun of being able to pass through your own spheres.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    The argument is that the silver cord itself, which must be maintained, is a "projection" and thus cannot pass "through" the sphere.
    Last edited by Foryn Gilnith; 2009-10-24 at 07:47 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    The argument is that the silver cord itself, which must be maintained, is a "projection" and thus cannot pass "through" the sphere.
    I thought the argument was that the entire time the spell is on he's projecting himself, until the spell ends. The cord has nothing to do with that, the spell itself is a projection.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Foryn Gilnith View Post
    The argument is that the silver cord itself, which must be maintained, is a "projection" and thus cannot pass "through" the sphere.
    I don't know that the rules spell it out, but it seems to me that the cord is a part of the caster's soul/lifeforce. That's why cutting it kills you. Since the cord is part of you, it should pass through the sphere. Of course, I'm committing two cardinal sins here: using logic in an immortality combo, and bringing RAI into the same. I suppose you could just toss yourself into the sphere without actually entering it.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2009-10-24 at 07:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Immortality and Invulnerability [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    I thought the argument was that the entire time the spell is on he's projecting himself, until the spell ends. The cord has nothing to do with that, the spell itself is a projection.
    This is correct. While the cord may be considered something trying to pass through the sphere, the spell itself is centered on your material body, and it cannot be maintained through the prismatic sphere, much like you cannot hide inside it and cast Meteor Swarms or Holy Words or what have you against people outside.

    So whether or not the cord counts as part of you for passing through the sphere is, while another possible flaw in the sphere (but not the wall-cube), the main problem is that you can't have any spell on you that affects an area outside the sphere. Then again, project is such a vague word it could be argued either way, but since this is an immortality combo, the extra expense of six prismatic walls over a prismatic sphere can be discounted.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-10-24 at 08:01 PM.

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