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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    The previous thread hit its limit. Title credit goes to Poison Fish.

    We were discussing Gankustuou and FMA: Brotherhood, Oracle Hunter's review of Rebuild of Evangelion 1.0's dub release, and Kris Strife's quest for the anime with a Coldplay ED.

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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    I'm not sure how I feel about FMA: Brotherhood. It's so much faster than the original anime.

    It also has quite a few of the characters I liked cut out.

    I really liked the original one. It wrapped up everything really well, everyone and everything was connected. There were no loose treads by the end. I understood the Humonculi a lot better, especially since there were only 7, instead of the manga approach of continually creating new ones.

    I have to admit though, the new series is pretty good. Any more Major Armstrong is awesome in my book.
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    I approve of the title

    Carrying over from the last one:
    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    Firstly, "CP" is rather a strong term.

    Secondly, I actually find that up-front nudity without strategic placement of limbs or obstacles or Barbie-doll elisions usually comes off as less sexualized, not more. I mean, people are going to lech on Rei if you put her in a burlap sack, because people are weird. I don't think "might someone conceivably fap to this" should be your guiding standard.
    I'd disagree here, if for no other reason than the usual standards of Fanservice.

    The sexualized concealment in fanservice usually comes from a character partially concealing (usually) herself after being exposed - adding a sense of invasion of privacy which is a common motivator for racy scenes. Rei does not "cover up" in this sense.
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    In the Most Embarrassing Scene Ever, Rei's icy calm and Shinji's extreme discomfort at her total exposure should be the focus of the scene. There is no need for the viewer to see a nipple; the original blocking had highly unobtrusive blocks and were needed for only a second at a time. In Rebuild, they used the exact same blocking but removed a lamp to show off Rei's breasts.

    Later, when Rei & Shinji are talking past a silhouette screen while preparing to face Ramiel, the original series had Shinji trying to connect with a literal shadow. The fact that Rei was changing was mostly on the periphery, save for the brief "vacuum plug suit" moment. In Rebuild, the camera actually focuses in on Rei's discarded underwear and cuts to Rei's side of the screen to give a glimpse of her breasts as she shrugs on her plug suit.

    Basically, when compared with the original blocking, it's hard to find any reason for showing more Rei nudity aside from Fanservice concerns. And that's terrible.

    Also: I would not be surprised to find the Dub dialogue is "dumbed down" from the Sub. I almost bust out laughing when Gendo delivered that line
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    It was in Gendo's office right before Ritsuko slips Misato Rei's ID card and tells her to get Shinji to deliver it. Compared to the original sequence, this also clearly establishes Ritsuko as Gendo's cats' paw at a very early stage.
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Well, if it's a matter of specific changes rather than just the addition of nipples, you may have a point. I don't remember the original well enough to compare at that level of detail. I would say it's more likely to be a "free! Free of rating constraints!" than "must add fanservice!", though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLogman View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about FMA: Brotherhood. It's so much faster than the original anime.

    It also has quite a few of the characters I liked cut out.

    I really liked the original one. It wrapped up everything really well, everyone and everything was connected. There were no loose treads by the end. I understood the Humonculi a lot better, especially since there were only 7, instead of the manga approach of continually creating new ones.

    I have to admit though, the new series is pretty good. Any more Major Armstrong is awesome in my book.
    What? I'm pretty sure the manga and anime have the same number of humonculi, ie one for each mortal sin. Though I am maybe one or two volumes behind the american release of the manga... but I see no signs of tons of new humonculi showing up.

    Also, Brotherhood is definitely better than the original.

    -----------------------

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    Well, if it's a matter of specific changes rather than just the addition of nipples, you may have a point. I don't remember the original well enough to compare at that level of detail. I would say it's more likely to be a "free! Free of rating constraints!" than "must add fanservice!", though.
    Oh, that's quite reasonable. I mean, it'd be silly to go back and compare the scenes frame by frame or something...

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    I think perhaps you should reflect on the methods of your analysis and its creepiness as well as the creepiness of the film.

    And just FYI, while the movie dismisses a lot of the original series's mystery (because everyone knows it already), the last scene and the sequel add in a lot more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
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    awkward dialogue to match up with mouth motions, poorly translated concepts [e.g. there is no good substitute for "Hai"], and they decided not to translate any of the written Japanese.
    Wait... what? I can think of three offhand: "Yes", "sure", "fine". Anyway, by "poorly translated concepts", does that mean the English isn't very idiomatic? I get that the language needs to match the mouth movement but even in spite of that?

    On written Japanese, did they at least fix the Engrish typos?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
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    An unexpected benefit of this pacing choice is that Shinji is much less whiny.
    I kind of get the impression that that was a conscious decision since this is supposed to be part re-imagining. He was certainly a bit more... assertive in the manga.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheLogman View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about FMA: Brotherhood. It's so much faster than the original anime.

    It also has quite a few of the characters I liked cut out.

    I really liked the original one. It wrapped up everything really well, everyone and everything was connected. There were no loose treads by the end. I understood the Humonculi a lot better, especially since there were only 7, instead of the manga approach of continually creating new ones.

    I have to admit though, the new series is pretty good. Any more Major Armstrong is awesome in my book.
    Are we... reading the same manga here? Lust, Gluttony, Envy, Wrath, Pride, Sloth and Greed. No other hormunculi come to mind...

    It's also faster because they have to squeeze ~110 chapters into 52 51 episodes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Also: I would not be surprised to find the Dub dialogue is "dumbed down" from the Sub. I almost bust out laughing when Gendo delivered that line
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    It was in Gendo's office right before Ritsuko slips Misato Rei's ID card and tells her to get Shinji to deliver it. Compared to the original sequence, this also clearly establishes Ritsuko as Gendo's cats' paw at a very early stage.
    OK, I've seen the 1.01 DVD version and I don't remember the line in question, nor do I know enough to find out what you mean. Please be more specific. Was it possibly a deleted scene?

    Also, you emphasise "tells her", but it's not terribly strange in the sub I have.
    "It's Shinji's official security card, and the renewed card for Rei Ayanami. I forgot to give it to her earlier, so could you have Shinji do it tomorrow?"
    What am I looking for?

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Oh, that's quite reasonable. I mean, it'd be silly to go back and compare the scenes frame by frame or something...

    <_<
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    Come to think of it, there were nipples in the original version too... It's when they're changing for the third fight (really can't be stuffed remembering the names of all the angels).
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by HamHam View Post
    What? I'm pretty sure the manga and anime have the same number of humonculi, ie one for each mortal sin. Though I am maybe one or two volumes behind the american release of the manga... but I see no signs of tons of new humonculi showing up.

    Also, Brotherhood is definitely better than the original.

    -----------------------

    Anyway:

    Mythical Detective Loki is the strangest thing.
    No, the manga is definitely better than the original. Brotherhood is a poor Xerox copy of the manga that captures only the matter and none of the substance of the original.

    Mythical Detective Loki is also horribly mediocre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLogman View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about FMA: Brotherhood. It's so much faster than the original anime.

    It also has quite a few of the characters I liked cut out.

    I really liked the original one. It wrapped up everything really well, everyone and everything was connected. There were no loose treads by the end. I understood the Humonculi a lot better, especially since there were only 7, instead of the manga approach of continually creating new ones.

    I have to admit though, the new series is pretty good. Any more Major Armstrong is awesome in my book.
    Technically speaking, those characters weren't "cut", because they didn't exist in the manga. Brotherhood isn't based off of the original anime at all, it's based off of the manga. If anything, characters like Ling and Mei Chang were cut from the original anime.

    -----

    To touch on the subject of Evangelion 1.0, I just went to a con this weekend and saw it. I'm familiar with the franchise, but this was the first time I had watched any of its media. I was told that the movie is the first few episodes of the show, only the animation is improved, and the episodes used are abridged so that it fits into a movie run time. I was also told that a large part of the original cast (or at the very least several of the leads) came back for the dub.

    Anyway, this being my first exposure to EVA, I generally liked it. Despite the fact that Shinji's a whiny little tool, I can't help but pity him to an extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLogman View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about FMA: Brotherhood. It's so much faster than the original anime.

    It also has quite a few of the characters I liked cut out.

    I really liked the original one. It wrapped up everything really well, everyone and everything was connected. There were no loose treads by the end. I understood the Humonculi a lot better, especially since there were only 7, instead of the manga approach of continually creating new ones.

    I have to admit though, the new series is pretty good. Any more Major Armstrong is awesome in my book.
    What homonculi were added? I'm sorta confused on that....unless you mean LingGreed...and thats not added so much as....how Greed was in the manga to begin with.
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    Yeah, I don't really get the "constantly creating new homunculi" comment either, unless you mean LingGreed, in which case it barely qualifies and only happens once.
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Darn it!

    I was just gonna suggest a title for the new thread!

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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Rapture View Post
    Yeah, I don't really get the "constantly creating new homunculi" comment either, unless you mean LingGreed, in which case it barely qualifies and only happens once.
    He also mentions at the end of the latest episode... spoiler worthy? i dont know but better to be safe
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    Gluttony is lying on the floor and has lost his regeneration powers so his father takes his philosiphers stone and says "i will create you again, with all your memories" or something to that effect
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    Nah, that's not making him new again, that's just resurrecting him.
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    i will admit though, having not read the manga, and watched the original FMA, the new one is pretty good, but there are certain things i much prefered in the old one, such as the bary the chopper incident, then finding him again later just added so much more atmosphere to what was going on, and felt a much better plot idea than simply meeting the armour version of barry.
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    I read the manga up to a certain point, then got really bored about having to wait one whole month for a new chapter. I have not seen Brotherhood. I plan to, but not in the near future.

    My opinion on the old Anime vs. Manga so far is this: The old Anime is a pretty damn good story. It did some splendid work with the basic story and then was forced to go in a different direction, but still turned out amazingly well. Some people see this and immediately think "NO! Heretic! The original story was destroyed!"

    Maybe.

    But I can't forget how much I loved the Anime when I was watching it, how much I just couldn't wait to see what happened next, how much I look back at it and still love it and consider it my favorite Anime of all time.

    tl;dr: No matter how good the Manga or Brotherhood are, the old Anime is in no way bad.

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    To elaborate on my earlier "meh" comment, it just has to do with how Brotherhood stands as an anime in its own right, not with what it coulda, shoulda, woulda been as an adaption of what my friends assure me is an amazing manga (saw the original show, have not read the manga). And as a show, its pacing is ridiculously fast and its forays into "chibi-land" annoy me and ruin dramatic moments, but its plot makes more sense [than the original anime] and its looking like it could set up for an amazing endgame. Hence meh, not too good, but not bad, otherwise I'd have stopped watching it every week. I just wouldn't recommend it to friends right now, maybe I will after it finishes.

    Have enough people here, fearing internet spoilers, got their hands on Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0? The discussion on 1.0 just seems well, trivial (discussing the slight camera angle changes that add up to an actual "new" movie) compared to the awesome, spoilerish territory covered in 2.0, especially given the current thread's title.

    One more thing before I disappear back into lurker mode, has anybody here seen Higurashi, both seasons? Just used a glut of free time when my friends were out of town to watch the entire show this weekend and I'd love to know what people here thought about it without trying to wade through the now 5?, 6? previous incarnations of this thread. On that note, is the "third season"/OVAs worth watching with the mystery finished by the end of the second season? I'm guessing they're just pointless fun episodes, but I'd like to know whether they're worth the effort before I go tracking down a copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayer Draco View Post
    To touch on the subject of Evangelion 1.0, I just went to a con this weekend and saw it. I'm familiar with the franchise, but this was the first time I had watched any of its media. I was told that the movie is the first few episodes of the show, only the animation is improved, and the episodes used are abridged so that it fits into a movie run time. I was also told that a large part of the original cast (or at the very least several of the leads) came back for the dub.

    Anyway, this being my first exposure to EVA, I generally liked it. Despite the fact that Shinji's a whiny little tool, I can't help but pity him to an extent.
    You've also been spoiled for quite a lot more than the first six episodes of the original show, by the way, as stuff that was a mystery in the original version like Lilith is taken for granted in the new movies, which are building an entirely different but no less convoluted plot.

    Also, I think the only returning dub cast members so far were Spike Spencer as Shinji Ikari and Allison Keith as Misato Katsuragi, which is fair as they were by far two of the three most iconic (and later typecast) voices in the original ADV dub. The third of those three, Tiffany Grant, has last I checked been signed for the Rebuild 2.0 dub, whenever the hell that's going to come out.

    Also, you think Shinji's a whiny tool now? Imagine when the story was 26 episodes long (6 for just this movie content), episodic, had zero budget and a bad ending. He had nothing to do but whine.
    Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2009-10-25 at 10:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle_Hunter View Post
    Fun fact: they only picked it up because of fan demand. And then nobody came
    Since I was the ONLY person at the second showing here I would completely buy this.


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    An unexpected benefit of this pacing choice is that Shinji is much less whiny.
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    Less whiny but more pathetic in other ways. Having him sleep in a cardboard box during one of his attempts to runaway felt somehow worse to me than anything he did in the series


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    ("Now we reach the part of the plan where Shinji is sexually fixated on Rei" - WTF?),
    Okay what? I really think I'd remember that line.

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    For some reason - Misato is already in on the "Lillith in the Basement" scenario. Doubly weird because she thought that showing Shinji this before he went out to snipe Ramiel would make him more willing to fight. Because if there's one thing that makes me want to save humanity, it's finding out we have a crazy giant creature cruicified in the basement for no explicable reason
    Yeah that bugged me to especially since it was one of the things that pushed Shinji over the edge at the end of the series. Using it as inspiration doesn't make any sense.

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    Major complaint: they added more CP! Considering the artful fashion that the original got around depicting the childrens' naughty bits, it was completely unnecessary to re-shoot scenes in order to show off more Rei. Considering the already uncomfortable sexualization of Rei in the current fandom, I'm not sure this was a fetish they really needed to cater to.
    This bugs me a lot too. Especially considering that acording to the comic store where I buy my anime End of Evangelion is not legal for sale within Canada (but public liabraries are allowed to carry it ) because of the limited scenes of underage nudity but this with the addition of more Rei boob shots gets rated PG-13 and a limited theatrical release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Rapture View Post
    No, the manga is definitely better than the original. Brotherhood is a poor Xerox copy of the manga that captures only the matter and none of the substance of the original.
    You are so wrong. It's adapted the manga pretty much perfectly.

    Mythical Detective Loki is also horribly mediocre.
    And weird.

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    I liked Mythical Detective Loki for some reason, good OP. Wish Hel had gotten a happier ending though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HamHam View Post
    You are so wrong. It's adapted the manga pretty much perfectly.
    Events, people, places, yeah. Those were adapted technically perfectly. But the atmosphere, the charm, and the wit of the manga? Missing.

    The humor worked in the manga because it didn't keep tripping up the dramatic moments and making important characters look like idiots. Ling, his bodyguards, Mei Ling, Hughes, they were all extremely likable characters in the manga. In Brotherhood? I want to strangle them with my own bare hands. The fights feel extremely compressed and subdued compared to the manga. Everything feels just so shallow and unremarkable.

    Ultimately, Brotherhood lacks the spirit of the manga, despite copying everything else. Somehow, Bones forgot what made the first anime great, and that was that they couldn't copy everything from the manga perfectly. They had to add in their own input, change a little here and there to fit it into an animated adaptation. And that what Brotherhood lacks. It just copies the manga into an animated medium, just like the Watchmen movie, without any idea of how does a static medium translate into animation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Rapture View Post
    Events, people, places, yeah. Those were adapted technically perfectly. But the atmosphere, the charm, and the wit of the manga? Missing.

    The humor worked in the manga because it didn't keep tripping up the dramatic moments and making important characters look like idiots. Ling, his bodyguards, Mei Ling, Hughes, they were all extremely likable characters in the manga. In Brotherhood? I want to strangle them with my own bare hands. The fights feel extremely compressed and subdued compared to the manga. Everything feels just so shallow and unremarkable.
    Haven't seen much of Brotherhood, but I would just like to point out that Mei Ling can go die in a fire. She's horrible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue 7 View Post
    Haven't seen much of Brotherhood, but I would just like to point out that Mei Ling can go die in a fire. She's horrible.
    Gotta agree with this. She's brain damaged in the manga...and in every other place you find her. Simply brain dead.
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    You are all horrible, horrible monsters who cannot discern what is adorable from what is horrible. You guys make me sad and we can't be friends.
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    JAM Project + Okkusenman = PURE UNDILUTED AWESOME

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Its ok...if you like her, you wouldn't have made a good friend at any rate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure you're GLaDoS now.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lord of Rapture's Avatar

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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    Yeah, I don't like making friends with crazy people anyway.
    Kyonko avatar by Elder Tsofu. Revere them.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Evil Thing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Anime 2.0: You Can (Generally) Discuss

    So I'm reading the Darker than BLACK manga that's supposed to bridge the two seasons...

    It's not bad, but for some reason I get a similar vibe to the one I get from reading the Code Geass manga. I'm not sure why yet.

    Its main strengths are a full-strength, angst-less Hei, and of course Yin. The translation's a bit schizophrenic but you can't have everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vic_Sage View Post
    Some screen shots of the new Gundams in the Gundam 00 movie]
    Aah... Gundam 00. The anime was so completely forgettable I didn't realise they were making a movie. Is it a recap of the series, or are they doing something new?
    Last edited by The Evil Thing; 2009-10-26 at 05:13 AM.
    Skydiving as an activity does not in itself require a parachute.
    Skydiving as a hobby does.

    People who take drugs are bad.
    Blasted customs agents.

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