Changeling Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple

[Tomokun]

So I have a character concept I'm wanting to mess with, and I could use some insight.

I'm getting into a game where we are creating 2nd level gestalt characters, and I want to use a Changeling Sorcerer, Prestiging at level 10is with Dragon Disciple. I'd like some help with feats, spell selection, and the fortelling of any problems I might not have thought of....THANKS!!

P.S.

Sorry I had posted this in the wrong thread previously.

[ericgrau]

Dragon disciple is great for a martial build with a small caster dip, NOT full casters. Casters don't want to lose caster levels.

If you want some dragon flavor, I believe there's a book for that with all kinds of dragon stuff for sorcerers. Hopefully someone will post its name.

[Edwin]

Dragon disciple is great for a martial build with a small caster dip, NOT full casters. Casters don't want to lose caster levels.

If you want some dragon flavor, I believe there's a book for that with all kinds of dragon stuff for sorcerers. Hopefully someone will post its name.

Dragon Magic, perhaps? Draconomicon has got some stuff too. And then there's Races of the Dragon.

[Tomokun]

I have his starting stats at level 2 are:

St. 9
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 8
Char 19

What I'd like to eventually do is get him to where he can use Polymorph and a greatsword, using his other spells as a sort of melt (magic missles, etc.). Eventually he would burn out, but he would still have the greatsword and a polymorph or two to turn into a dragon. Would this be a bad build, even for a party?

[Edwin]

I have his starting stats at level 2 are:

St. 9
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 8
Char 19

What I'd like to eventually do is get him to where he can use Polymorph and a greatsword, using his other spells as a sort of melt (magic missles, etc.). Eventually he would burn out, but he would still have the greatsword and a polymorph or two to turn into a dragon. Would this be a bad build, even for a party?

Well there's a bunch of Dragon Shape spells in Spell Compendium, can't remember the exact the level of the spells, but they turn you into a dragon of a certain age. That's the polymorph taken care of.

Gestalt you say? Well you could go with SorX/Dragon discipleX//Fighter, for simplicities sake.

Anything else you want? I could help you out?

[ericgrau]

I have his starting stats at level 2 are:

St. 9
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 8
Char 19

What I'd like to eventually do is get him to where he can use Polymorph and a greatsword, using his other spells as a sort of melt (magic missles, etc.). Eventually he would burn out, but he would still have the greatsword and a polymorph or two to turn into a dragon. Would this be a bad build, even for a party?

EDIT: oops, didn't see the gestalt part. Scratch what I said about losing caster levels or fighting ability from dragon disciple.

Those stats are fine.

Get a class with full BAB for optimal polymorph effectiveness. Polymorph also involves a lot of book-keeping, so if you use it be sure to figure out all the stats of the new form(s) before the game session begins.

Search the forums or the internet in general for some good spell lists for wizards and sorcerers. Pick spells from those. You're unlikely to run out of spells as a sorcerer using those spells, but you can also get wands and staffs. A wand of invisibility is my favorite. Get lots of utility scrolls too.

Arcane spell failure chance in armor is going to be a pain. Try twilight mithral or something. Or better yet don't get into melee until after you polymorph. Note that wands and staffs have no arcane spell failure.

[ex cathedra]

If it's a gestalt game, what are your other classes? You've only mentioned one side... regardless, I'll suggest that you go Sorcerer 20 // Paladin 2 / Something 8 / Dragon Disciple 10.

There are several helpful prestige classes you can get into from sorcerer, so you might lose a few sorcerer levels in favor of them. Mindbender, Mage of the Arcane Order, Fatespinner, Archmage, and Abjurant Champion are all nice.

[ErrantX]

I'd consider Sorcerer 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Incantatrix 10//Paladin 4/Fighter2/Dragon Disciple 10/Fighter +4 for that kind of character. Gives you a strong melee presence, the fun of the Dragon Disciple's transformation, and it gives you Incantatrix power on the sorcerer side, as well as Abjurant Champion boosts to protective spells. Charisma synergy all around.

-X

[Tomokun]

Wow...that sounds sick and dangerous! Do Gestalt games really allow you to reach levels that high?

[ex cathedra]

Out of curiosity, do you understand the gestalt rules?

[Tomokun]

I believe so. From what I understand, multi-classing doesn't have the usual penalties and the world is pretty much open, right?

[ErrantX]

Here you are, these are the rules for Gestalt.

In a nutshell, you advance two different level sets, and just so long as they don't dual progress (i.e. Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, Arcane Trickster, etc) on either side, you're good to go. My above build had straight casting on one side, and straight fighting on the other (plus bonus spells known to the sorcerer side).

Read the rules over, make sure that's the kind of game you're playing.

-X

[Tomokun]

WELL! That certainly changes things up a bit now doesn't it!

I see what you mean by being able to have so many classes...

Considering I start at level 2...I'd be foolish not to take the Sorcerer/Fighter option...although the Pally/Sorc combo is REALLY tempting...:p

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If it is a 'gestalt' game, then my suggestion:

Sorcerer5/Mage of the Arcane Order5/Sorcerer10//Fighter2/Barbarian8/Dragon Disciple10

While not *as* powerful as Sorcerer/Incantatrix/Iot7V//Barbarian, the limitation on only one PrC at a time prevents you from getting Dragon Disciple, because you are already PrCing the other side.

[Tomokun]

<_<

>_>

You guys are all dangerous ...

I'm going through the spell compendium now and hatching my plans....Lawful EVIL!!!! MUAHAHAHA!

Seriously, thank you guys, I'm paying attention to everything you are saying!

[Eldariel]

If it is a 'gestalt' game, then my suggestion:

Sorcerer5/Mage of the Arcane Order5/Sorcerer10//Fighter2/Barbarian8/Dragon Disciple10

While not *as* powerful as Sorcerer/Incantatrix/Iot7V//Barbarian, the limitation on only one PrC at a time prevents you from getting Dragon Disciple, because you are already PrCing the other side.

I'd probably try to add some Rage Mage to the Barbarian-side and probably go Paladin 2 over Fighter 2 (since there are no martial prerequisites); this involves more Sorc levels, but c'est la vie. One level of Sandshaper would be doable along with 4-5 levels of Rage Mage while maintaining full Dragon Disciple to cast while Raging.

[Tomokun]

So do you think I should maybe even out my dex and Strength a bit? I know I need the AC, but it seems like I really can make a more beefy Character here...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'd probably try to add some Rage Mage to the Barbarian-side and probably go Paladin 2 over Fighter 2 (since there are no martial prerequisites); this involves more Sorc levels, but c'est la vie. One level of Sandshaper would be doable along with 4-5 levels of Rage Mage while maintaining full Dragon Disciple to cast while Raging.

Well, you can't get into any of those classes before 5th level, so you've got 15 levels to play with.

So 10 into DD, a level dip into Sandshaper, then you've got 4 left to dip into Rage Mage... yea, that scans pretty well.

I suggest Fighter because a) You won't be able to maintain Lawful Stupid alignment as a Barbarian or Rage Mage, and b) extra feats.

[Eldariel]

I suggest Fighter because a) You won't be able to maintain Lawful Stupid alignment as a Barbarian or Rage Mage, and b) extra feats.

Feats are nice, but the second problem is solved via simple Paladin of Freedom; if we have splats, surely SRD material works. Though Lawful Evil wouldn't; meeeh. CE is fine too tho. Paladin of SLAUGHTER.

Bah with the stupid Alignment crap :(

[Zovc]

So 10 into DD, a level dip into Sandshaper, then you've got 4 left to dip into Rage Mage... yea, that scans pretty well.

If DMs let, I like to take a level of Abjurant Champion opposite of Sand Shaper 1 and 9 in gish builds.

Edit: Sand Shaper is not compatible with Lawful Evil.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If DMs let, I like to take a level of Abjurant Champion opposite of Sand Shaper 1 and 9 in gish builds.

Edit: Sand Shaper is not compatible with Lawful Evil.

Problem is that is two PrC's back-to-back which is generally a no-no in Gestalt games, just like the Theurge-like classes. Otherwise, you end up with things like the Omnicaster.

[Tomokun]

New update...I can ONLY pick my second class from the list I had provided previously...so I'm thinking either Marshal or Dragon SHaman...thoughts?