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    Default [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    The All-Thief

    The All-Thief is, at its heart, an exceptionally diversified Spellthief. Eventually, they learn to steal an incredible variety of power from a variety of characters. He sacrifices his own spellcasting ability for the ability to steal spells, powers, pacts, soulmelds, maneuvers, stances, turn undead attempts, and even rage.

    Prerequisites:
    • Class Feature: Steal Spell-like Ability
    • Feats: One of the following:
      • Emotional Siphon (see below)
      • Graverobbery (see below)
      • Healing Extortion (see below)
      • Industrial Espionage (see below)
      • Kleptolexicology (see below)
      • Pact Borrowing (see below)
      • Psithief (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 80)
      • Smite the Smitten (see below)
      • Soul Stealer (see below)
      • Sublime Theft (see below)
    • Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks


    Hit Die
    d6

    Skill Points:
    Class Skills: The following are the class skills (and the key ability for each skill) for the All-Thief: Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Languages (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

    Skill Points per Level: 6 + Int modifier

    Class Features:
    The following are class features for the All-Thief:
    {table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
    1 | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Omnitheft, New Theft
    2 | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | New Theft, Skills of the Crime
    3 | +2 | +1 | +1 | +3 | New Theft, Sneak Attack +1d6
    4 | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | New Theft, Feat Heist
    5 | +3 | +1 | +1 | +4 | New Theft, Casing the Joint
    6 | +4 | +2 | +2 | +5 | New Theft, Identity Theft, Sneak Attack +2d6
    7 | +5 | +2 | +2 | +5 | New Theft, The Stolen Life
    8 | +6 | +2 | +2 | +6 | New Theft, Mystic Caper
    9 | +6 | +3 | +3 | +6 | New Theft, Class Job, Sneak Attack +3d6
    10 | +7 | +3 | +3 | +7 | New Theft, What Was Yours Is Mine[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An All-Thief gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

    Omnitheft: Each level of All-Thief stacks with all levels of other classes for the purposes of stealing those class's effects. That is, the All-Thief's effective binder level, initiator level, manifester level, meldshaper level, caster level, and truenamer level add his class level when determining the highest level pact, maneuver, power, soulmeld, spell, or utterance that he can steal. None of these levels may exceed his total hit dice due to this ability, however.

    In addition, levels of All-Thief stack with levels of levels of Spellthief for the purpose of determining the highest level spell he can steal, and further the All-Thief adds twice his class level to his Spellthief level to determine the total number of spell levels that he can steal. It also stacks for the purposes of the highest-level spell-like ability he can steal.

    Finally, stolen spells and other effects may be used at any time within the normal time (1 hour for most effects) times the All-Thief's class level.

    New Theft: At each level, an All-Thief gains a new ability to steal power from others. Choose on of the feats from this list:
    • Emotional Siphon (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of having his own ability to Rage
    • Graverobbery (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of having his own ability to Turn Undead
    • Healing Extortion (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of having his own ability to Lay on Hands
    • Industrial Espionage (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of being able to use Infusions
    • Kleptolexicology (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of Truespeak ranks.
    • Martial Mimicry (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of knowing a Martial Maneuver and Stance
    • Pact Borrowing (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of being able to Bind a Vestige
    • Psithief (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 80) An All-Thief waives the requirement of having a power point pool. An All-Thief with the Psithief feat also gains an additional benefit: upon successfully stealing power points with the Psithief ability, an All-Thief also gains the knowledge of any one power that the target knows that costs no more power points than the power points stolen. This power may be manifested once within the next hour, at which point the All-Thief loses knowledge of it unless he knows it himself, and the target of the theft cannot manifest the power for one minute following the theft. The level of the Psionic power stolen is added to the levels of spells stolen by the All-Thief for the purposes of determining how many total levels he can steal.
    • Smite the Smitten (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of being able to Smite Evil
    • Soulstealer (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of being able to Shape a Soulmeld
    • Sublime Theft (see below) An All-Thief waives the requirement of knowing a Martial Maneuver

    Each feat also adds its associated skill(s) to the All-Thief skill list, the same as they do to the Spellthief's skill list. Industrial Espionage additionally adds Use Magic Device (which Spellthieves have natively) and Psithief adds Use Psionic Device (which Mindthieves have natively).

    Skills of the Crime: At 2nd level, an All-Thief gains the ability to steal skill ranks from his foes. Instead of activating his Steal Spell ability, he may instead temporarily gain a number of skill ranks in any skill of his choice, while the target temporarily loses these ranks. The number of ranks swapped in this manner may be no greater than the number of ranks the target has, or the All-Thief's class level, whichever is lower. The swap lasts for one minute. The change actually affects skill ranks, and therefore affects abilities that key off of those ranks, but the increased ranks may not be used by the All-Thief to qualify for anything he could not have qualified for earlier.

    Sneak Attack: At 3rd level, an All-Thief gains +1d6 Sneak Attack damage. This damage advances to +2d6 damage at 6th and +3d6 damage at 9th. These damage dice stack with any sneak attack damage dice he may have from other classes.

    Feat Heist: At 4th level, an All-Thief gains the ability to steal a foe's feats. On a successful use of Steal Spell, he may instead take a feat. For a number of minutes equal to his class level, the All-Thief gains the benefit of that feat and his target loses its benefit. He may not use this feat to qualify for anything, and his target does not lose any abilities that depend on the stolen feat as a prerequisite (though in some cases an ability may be rendered useless by the removal of a feat it depends on). If the feat depends on any relevant statistics, use the target's, not the All-Thief's.

    Each feat is equivalent to a spell of a level equal to half the minimum level at which the feat may be acquired, for the purposes of determining whether or not the All-Thief may steal it and for the maximum number of spells he can steal.

    Casing the Joint: At 5th level, an All-Thief gains the ability to learn of his foes' strengths so that he may better steal them. On a successful use of any of his theft abilities, an All-Thief learns whether or not the target can use any of the abilities he knows how to steal, and he may select one of those abilities and learn exactly what his target has that he might steal from the chosen type. If he chooses to identify the target's skills, he may either learn the target's ranks in any five skills, or learn the entire list of those skills his target has any ranks in. If he chooses to identify his opponent's abilities, those abilities are ranked from highest to lowest for him.

    Identity Theft: On a successful use of Steal Spell, an All-Thief may elect to take the target's identity in place of a spell. This is equivalent to stealing a spell of a level equal to half the target's HD. The All-Thief may then spend a number of hours equal to his class level, spread out as he wishes among the next 24 hours, appearing exactly like the victim. This is a transmutation effect, not an illusion. Further, the All-Thief gains not only the victim's appearance, but also knowledge of his personality. This means he can mimic the target near-perfectly - he is unlikely to be found out unless he is asked for information that the subject knows and he does not. He gains a +20 bonus on his disguise checks to impersonate the target. His target retains his own appearance for the duration of the effect, however.

    The Stolen Life: At 7th level, an All-Thief can steal the very essence of a target. On a successful use of his Steal Spell ability, he may instead take up to half his class level from any one of his target's ability scores, and add it to his own. His victim takes a penalty equal to the amount stolen to that score, and the All-Thief gains a 'theft bonus' to that same ability score equal to the same amount. This lasts for one minute, at which point both the penalty and the bonus are removed. At no point may the All-Thief have stolen more than one set of abilities - if, during that one minute, he uses this ability, his previous use is immediately reset before he makes the new swap.

    Mystic Caper: At 8th level, an All-Thief can steal supernatural abilities much as he can steal spell-like abilities. To do so, he must have has many hit dice as his target. He may use the ability once within a number of rounds equal to his class level. If he does not use it in this time, the use is lost without effect. The target in question cannot use that ability until the All-Thief has used it, or lost it. When the All-Thief does use it, treat it in all ways as if the original owner of the ability had used it.

    Class Job: At 9th level, an All-Thief can steal one of many class features from his target in place of a spell on a successful use of steal spell. The feature must be gained from a standard class, and it must be one that is gained at a single level (therefore, class features like spellcasting which progress each level are not eligible to be stolen). If the class feature has a limited number of uses per any duration of time, the All-Thief may only use it once during that amount of time. The feature counts as a spell of a level equal to half the level at which the feature is gained for the purposes of determining whether or not the All-Thief may steal it. The All-Thief gains the use of this feature for one hour per class level, and his target loses the feature for one minute following the theft.

    What Was Yours Is Mine: At 10th level, an All-Thief gains the ability to make a limited number of his thefts permanent. Up to once per week, when he steals anything using one of his feats or class features, with the exceptions of skill ranks, ability boosts, spell-like or supernatural abilities, or identities, he may choose to gain that ability permanently.

    If he steals a vestige pact, he may make that pact freely and as easily as his original victim can.

    If he steals a martial maneuver, he may ready it as normal.

    If he steals a martial stance, he may use that stance any time he likes.

    If he steals a use of turn undead, he may use it once per day just like his original target.

    If he steals a soulmeld, he may shape it any time he wishes, and invest in it as much essentia as his target could have, including the essentia that he stole with the soulmeld.

    If he steals a psionic power, he may manifest it as much as he has power points with which to do so, and may also add the power points he stole to his power points per day.

    If he stole a spell, he may cast that spell once per day.

    If he stole a feat, he gains that feat permanently. It still may not be used to qualify for anything.

    If he stole a class feature, he gains that class feature permanently. It still may not be used to qualify for anything.

    In all cases, the ability functions as it normally would when he steals it, using all of the target's relevant statistics.

    He may have no more than half his class level in these abilities, however, and once he has that many he must lose one in order to gain another. They still count towards his maximum spell levels stolen. His victim still regains this ability normally. He may not use this effect with his Skills of the Crime, Identity Theft, Mystic Caper, or The Stolen Life abilities, or his Steal Spell-like Ability feature from his Spellthief levels.



    Feats:

    Emotional Siphon
    Prerequisites: Steal 3rd Level Spells, Rage
    Benefit: You may use your steal spell ability to steal a use of Rage or similar. You gain a use of Rage that must be used within an hour, while your target loses a daily use of Rage, which he regains a minute later. If this is his only use of Rage remaining for the day, he immediately stops Raging and may not begin again until he regains the use of the Rage. You may not steal another use of Rage from the same target until he has regained that use after the minute. When you Rage, use your target's Con modifier to determine its length. Note that unless he is simultaneously Raging, his Con modifier is not increased and therefore the bonus you get to Con does not increase the duration of your Rage.

    Rage counts as a 3rd level spell for the purposes of the maximum number of spells you can steal. Greater Rage counts as a 6th level spell. Mighty Rage counts as a 9th level spell.

    Further, Intimidate is added to the Spellthief's class skills for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to Rage 2/day. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Rage-granting classes (any class that grants additional uses of Rage, improved Rage features, or alternative types of Rage) for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Rage-granting classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Graverobbery
    Prerequisites: Steal Spell, Turn Undead
    Benefit: You can use your steal spell ability to steal uses of turn undead from your victim. Your target loses one use of turn undead for the day, and you gain a use of it that you must use within the next hour (or it is lost with no effect). When using this turn undead attempt, use the original target's relevant statistics for resolving the attempt. This turn undead attempt may not be used for Divine feats.

    This turn undead attempt counts as a spell of level equal to half the victim's turning level for the purposes of whether or not you can steal it and how many total spell levels you can steal.

    Further, Knowledge (Religion) becomes a Spellthief class skill for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with 2nd level Divine. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Divine spellcasting classes for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Divine and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Healing Extortion
    Prerequisites: Steal Spells, ability to Lay on Hands
    Benefit:You may steal a use of Lay on Hands with your steal spell ability. Instead of taking a spell, you may gain Lay on Hands that you may use once within an hour, while your target loses a daily use of Lay on Hands for one minute. When using the Lay on Hands ability, treat your Charisma to be that of your target and your class level in whatever gave Lay on Hands to be the same as your target's.

    This counts as a spell equal to half the target's Lay on Hands level (the one that is multiplied by her Charisma).

    Further, you add Heal to your Spellthief class skill list.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to Lay on Hands for 3 times your Charisma bonus per day. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Lay-on-Hands-granting classes (any class that grants additional uses of Lay on Hands, improved Lay on Hands healing, or alternative types of Lay on Hands) for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Lay-on-Hands-granting classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Industrial Espionage
    Prerequisites: Steal Spells, able to use Infusions
    Benefit: You can use your steal spell ability to steal infusions your target. On any successful use of Steal Spell, you may instead take an Infusion. The Infusion counts as a spell of its level for the purposes of determining whether or not you can steal it and for the purposes of determining how many spell levels you may steal. The Infusion must be of a level that you yourself may use, based on your Infusion-using class level.

    You may use the Infusion once, determining all effects based on your original victim's scores. You may, however, use your own Action Point to shorten the infusion time as usual (you cannot use your opponent's Action Point). If the infusion has not been used within an hour, you lose the ability to use it. Regardless, your opponent may not use that infusion for one minute following the original theft.

    Further, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) becomes a Spellthief class skill for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to speak 2nd level Infusions. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Infusion-using classes for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Infusion-using classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Kleptolexicology
    Prerequisites: Steal Spells, Truespeak 3 ranks
    Benefit: You can use your steal spell ability to steal utterances from your opponent. On any successful use of Steal Spell, you may instead take an Utterance of a level no greater than two-thirds of the highest level spell you can steal, and of a level you are able to learn yourself based on your effective Truenamer level. The Utterance must be from the Lexicon of the Evolving Mind.

    You may speak the Utterance once, within the next hour, using your target's Truespeak check and relevant abilities. After using it, or after the hour is up, you lose knowledge of the Utterance unless it is one you know yourself. In addition, your victim may not use this Utterance for one minute after the original theft.

    Add one and half times the level of the Utterance to the level of the spells and/or utterances that you have already stolen for the purpose of determining how many levels of either you can steal.

    Further, Truespeak becomes a Spellthief class skill for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to speak 2nd level Utterances. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Truenaming classes (any class that has Truespeak as a class skill by default) for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Truenaming classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Martial Mimicry
    Prerequisites: Steal Spells, Sublime Theft, one Maneuver from any Discipline, one Stance from any Discipline
    Benefit: You may use your steal spells ability to steal a stance from your opponent. You gain the victim's current stance, provided it is of a level equal to or lower than both the highest spell level you can steal and the highest maneuver you can initiate. You may enter the stance as a swift action on a subsequent turn, and you may use the stance for the next hour. Your foe, meanwhile, must use a swift action on a subsequent turn to enter a different stance, and cannot return to the stolen stance until a minute after the theft.

    The stance counts as a spell of its level for the purpose of determining how many spell levels you can steal.

    Pact Borrowing:
    Prerequisites: Steal Spell, ability to Bind a Vestige
    Benefit: You may use your steal spell ability to instead take a pact that your target has entered into with any vestige whose vestige level is no greater than the highest level spell you can steal nor higher than the highest level vestige you can bind. You gain the benefits of the pact for an hour after the theft, while your target loses those benefits for one minute. In all ways, the pact remains as it was for the original binder: you do not make a binding check, you are not influenced by the vestige (but your opponent is still if he failed his binding check), you do not show the sign of the vestige (but your opponent still does if he had been showing it originally), you may use any of the vestige's abilities that the original binder could have used, etc. The values of any of the vestige's abilities or effects are determined by the original binder's statistics, not your own. After the hour, the pact with the vestige ends.

    The pact counts as a spell of the vestige's level for the purpose of determining how many spells you can steal.

    Further, Knowledge (The Planes) becomes a Spellthief class skill for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to bind 2nd level vestiges. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Binding classes (any class that improves your Effective Binder Level) for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Binding classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Smite the Smitten
    Prerequisites: Steal Spell, Smite Evil (or similar)
    Benefit: You may steal a use of Smite Evil (or similar) with your steal spell ability. Instead of taking a spell, you may gain Smite Evil (or similar) that you may use once within an hour, while your target loses a daily use of Smite Evil (...) for one minute. When using the Smite ability, treat your Charisma to be that of your target and your class level in whatever gave Smite to be the same as your target's.

    This counts as a spell equal to half the target's Smite damage bonus.

    Further, you add Knowledge (Religion) to your Spellthief class skill list.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to Smite for +3 damage. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Smite-granting classes (any class that grants additional uses of Smite, improved Smite damage, or alternative types of Smite) for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Smite-granting classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Soul Stealer
    Prerequisites: Steal Spell, able to shape Soulmelds
    Benefit: You may steal a soulmeld with your steal spell ability. Instead of taking a spell, you may take any soulmeld that your target has shaped, gaining that soulmeld shaped and occupying the same chakra that it had occupied for your target. You may not steal any soulmeld which has more essentia invested in it than you would be able to invest in it yourself in that slot (in the case of non-totemists stealing totem chakras or totemists stealing soul chakras, the soulmeld may not have more essentia invested in it than you may invest in your lowest capacity chakra). You also take any essentia that your opponent had invested in the chakra. If the chakra had been bound on your opponent, and you do not have a magic item on that chakra (or have the Split Chakra feat for that chakra), you may choose to also have it bound when you steal it. Your opponent loses both the soulmeld and the essentia. This effect lasts for one minute, at which point the soulmeld and the essentia that had been invested in it return to the target, becoming shaped and/or bound exactly as it was before. If you have invested your own essentia in the chakra, that essentia becomes uninvested before losing it, and may be reinvested with a swift action as usual. If you had removed some of the essentia invested in the soulmeld from it, that essentia is returned along with the soulmeld.

    The soulmeld comes shaped and with essentia already invested in it. The capacity of the soulmeld, and its ability to be bound to the given chakra, as well as its manifester level and save DCs, are dependent on the target you took it from. You may bind the chakra even if you cannot bind your own soulmelds there, if it was bound by your opponent.

    The soulmeld counts as a spell of half the target's meldshaper level, for the purposes of determining whether it can be stolen and for the total number of spells you may steal.

    Knowledge (The Planes) also becomes a Spellthief class skill for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to invest 2 Essentia into any Soulmeld. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in Meldshaping classes for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both Meldshaping classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.

    Sublime Theft
    Prerequisites: Steal Spell, one Maneuver from any Discipline
    Benefit: You may use your steal spell ability to steal any one readied and unexpended (and granted, if applicable) maneuver from your target. The level of the maneuver must be no higher than the highest level spell you can steal nor higher than the highest maneuver you can initiate. For example, a Spellthief 6/Warblade 1 has the ability to steal 3rd level spells but has an initiator level of 4, so he may only steal 1st and 2nd level maneuvers. If he takes another level of Warblade to gain an initiator level of 5, he may then steal 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level maneuvers.

    When stolen, the maneuver is considered expended for your foe, and readied for you. Further, your opponent may not ready or recover that maneuver for one minute. Once expended, you lose access to the maneuver entirely (unless you knew it already yourself, in which case the extra use of it is lost and cannot be recovered). If unexpended after one hour, you lose access to it as if you had expended it.

    When initiated, treat the maneuver in all ways as if initiated by the original target it was stolen from, with the exception that the weapon damage dealt during a Strike is based on the Spellthief's weapon and abilities.

    You may steal a maneuver you already have readied. This would mean you would be able to use that maneuver twice without recovering.

    A Spellthief with the Discover Spells class feature may likewise learn the maneuvers readied by any foe from whom they steal a maneuver.

    Stolen maneuver levels are added to stolen spell levels for the purpose of determining how many levels worth of spells and/or maneuvers the Spellthief can steal.

    Further, Intimidate and Martial Lore become Spellthief class skills for you.

    Finally, the Master Spellthief feat (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) gains an alternate set of prerequisites for you: instead of 2nd level Arcane spells, you may qualify with the ability to initiate 2nd level Maneuvers. If you do so, then instead of stacking with levels of Arcane spellcasting classes, your Spellthief levels instead stack with levels in martial adept classes for the purposes of that feat. You may now take Master Spellthief another time, if you would like to have both martial adept classes and Arcane spellcasting classes stack for the purposes of the feat.


    This class has an entry in Fax Celestis's Wiki, here.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-10-31 at 02:52 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dante & Vergil's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    You just can't stop, can you? You just gotta take everything awsome for yourself, and leave nothing for the rest of us, right?!
    ...Seriously though, I do want to play a Spellthief now if that says anything about the class.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2009-10-29 at 03:34 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    Hehe, thank you.

    My biggest concern is the Steal Class Feature and Steal Supernatural Ability powers. Those kinds of things are sort of like the traditional routes to stupid levels of brokeness.

    Which reminds me, forgot to list Mystic Caper as one of those things you can't take permanently. I'm not sure if I should add Class Job also...

    Anyway, any suggestions on other things he might be able to steal?
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-10-29 at 03:51 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    That sucks 'cause I had to go back to the word file I saved it under to add the changes you listed.
    I'm very fast like that.
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2009-10-29 at 04:03 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    Hehe, I updated it a little more, to allow the feats to change the way Master Spellthief works.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    You may want to stop class features and supernatural abilities from becoming permanent, yes. Additionally, you should impose a cap on how many permanent abilities you can have. half your All-Thief level, maybe? Or alternatively, allow 10, but while a spell or something takes one slot, say, a class feature would take more. Not sure on exactly how to make that work. I'm just seeing that, while neat, the capstone could eventually lead to vast amounts of broken-ness.

    I'm also a bit iffy on the one where you steal abilities. In general, it's fine, but it's not just a large buff for you. Against a dragon? It's probably now weaker than the party tank, while you're suddenly absurdly strong. Against a caster, you get huge mental stats (possibly irrelevant unless they were a charisma caster) while probably rendering them incapable of casting spells at all. Or any meaningful ones, anyway. And, ofcourse, using this on constitution can cause some huge damage. I like the ability, it just might require some tweaking.

    Anyway. Now that the criticism is over and I hopefully didn't come off as too vicious? I like the idea. It's a very, very nice PrC, just one that needs a couple changes. And honestly everything does, so that's no big deal. I'll look forward to seeing the end result
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    Quote Originally Posted by cog_n_taz View Post
    You may want to stop class features and supernatural abilities from becoming permanent, yes.
    So many of these would be reasonable choices, though. It's only a handful of things that become ridiculous.

    Still, yeah, probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by cog_n_taz View Post
    Additionally, you should impose a cap on how many permanent abilities you can have. half your All-Thief level, maybe? Or alternatively, allow 10, but while a spell or something takes one slot, say, a class feature would take more. Not sure on exactly how to make that work. I'm just seeing that, while neat, the capstone could eventually lead to vast amounts of broken-ness.
    It's already set to a max of half your All-Thief level (so... 5), and class features... well, they do cost a spell slot, but probably not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by cog_n_taz View Post
    I'm also a bit iffy on the one where you steal abilities. In general, it's fine, but it's not just a large buff for you. Against a dragon? It's probably now weaker than the party tank, while you're suddenly absurdly strong. Against a caster, you get huge mental stats (possibly irrelevant unless they were a charisma caster) while probably rendering them incapable of casting spells at all. Or any meaningful ones, anyway. And, ofcourse, using this on constitution can cause some huge damage. I like the ability, it just might require some tweaking.
    Hmm... a 5 score swing didn't seem too huge. But I'll admit, I'm not that familiar with high-level play, so I could be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by cog_n_taz View Post
    Anyway. Now that the criticism is over and I hopefully didn't come off as too vicious? I like the idea. It's a very, very nice PrC, just one that needs a couple changes. And honestly everything does, so that's no big deal. I'll look forward to seeing the end result
    Oh, don't worry, I'm thrilled to get the feedback. You do very well - wanna read some of my other stuff? Hehe. Which reminds me, I should fix that link in my sig, it's not complete...


    EDIT: Had forgotten to give him a Hit Die - it's d6.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-10-30 at 09:36 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    I must say that I really love this class, it's well made, wersatile and very flavorfull.
    I just see two small problem:
    First an all-thief gain the new theft class feature nine time, for the nine feat you made but they need one to qualify so they can only gain it eight time at nine level they can't gain any feat from that class feature.
    It just seem weird.

    The other detail is that I'm not sure that they will get the occasion to use some of them often, because while you encounter enemy spellcaster all the time, binder, meldshaper or truespeaker are way rarer.
    Of course that's not a problem with the class itself, but it may lower the value of those feat.

    Just my two cent.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    I must say that I really love this class, it's well made, wersatile and very flavorfull.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    I just see two small problem:
    First an all-thief gain the new theft class feature nine time, for the nine feat you made but they need one to qualify so they can only gain it eight time at nine level they can't gain any feat from that class feature.
    It just seem weird.
    There's ten feats: nine I made, plus Psithief. There's only nine options for entry because if you have Martial Mimicry, you must have Sublime Theft anyway.

    1. Emotional Siphon - Rage
    2. Graverobbery - Turn Undead
    3. Healing Extortion - Lay on Hands
    4. Kleptolexicology - Truenaming
    5. Martial Mimicry - Stances
    6. Pact Borrower - Pacts
    7. Psithief - Psionics
    8. Smite the Smitten - Smite
    9. Soul Stealer - Soulmelds
    10. Sublime Theft - Maneuvers


    Quote Originally Posted by zagan View Post
    The other detail is that I'm not sure that they will get the occasion to use some of them often, because while you encounter enemy spellcaster all the time, binder, meldshaper or truespeaker are way rarer.
    Of course that's not a problem with the class itself, but it may lower the value of those feat.

    Just my two cent.
    I agree; it's probably a rare campaign where all ten are very useful. That's why they're feats you can take as you like. But if you're playing in a campaign where you do see a lot of different stuff, then the All-Thief is awesome.

    Even if one or two of those things don't come up (like, say, Incarnum and Truespeaking), the class is probably still worth it, really.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-10-30 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    There's ten feats: nine I made, plus Psithief. There's only nine options for entry because if you have Martial Mimicry, you must have Sublime Theft anyway.

    1. Emotional Siphon - Rage
    2. Graverobbery - Turn Undead
    3. Healing Extortion - Lay on Hands
    4. Kleptolexicology - Truenaming
    5. Martial Mimicry - Stances
    6. Pact Borrower - Pacts
    7. Psithief - Psionics
    8. Smite the Smitten - Smite
    9. Soul Stealer - Soulmelds
    10. Sublime Theft - Maneuvers
    Ah, I forget about psithief, In that case no problem.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC & Feats] The All-Thief

    And I've now added an 11th feat - Industrial Espionage, for stealing Artificer Infusions. You now gain one of these feats every level.

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