Nerfing a Centaur

[Superglucose]

How could I nerf the Centaur to make it a level adjustment +0 class?

[Lycanthromancer]

How could I nerf the Centaur to make it a level adjustment +0 class?

Shoot it in the eye with one of those Nerf-guns?

WATCH WHERE YOU'RE SHOOTING THAT THING! IT'S ALL FUN AND GAMES UNTIL SOMEONE LOSES AN EYE!

Take a dwarf, reflavor, and sub out a few abilities? Exchange the ability to wear heavy armor without speed reduction, stonecunning, the bonus vs giants, the bonus vs poisons, and/or treating dwarven weapons as martial weapons for a 40 ft move speed and a much higher carrying capacity (and being a Medium creature that auto-upgrades to Large at higher levels). They already get the stability issue covered, so...

[gdiddy]

It's large...It's not meant to be +0 LA...

[BobVosh]

Shoot it in the eye with one of those Nerf-guns?

WATCH WHERE YOU'RE SHOOTING THAT THING! IT'S ALL FUN AND GAMES UNTIL SOMEONE LOSES AN EYE!

Take a dwarf, reflavor, and sub out a few abilities, such as +20 ft move speed and a much higher carrying capacity (and being a Medium creature that auto-upgrades to Large at higher levels) for the ability to wear heavy armor without speed reduction, stonecunning, the bonus vs giants, the bonus vs poisons, and/or treating dwarven weapons as martial weapons? They already get the stability issue covered, so...

The slowness of dwarfs is off.

-2 Dex +2 con
Stability from dwarves
40 ft move
Low light vision

Call it a night

Oof. Forgot to mention: large with no reach. Just let em have it at level 1, its hardly an advantage.

I like how you managed to edit it right before I clicked quote. That is a special PrC for Ninja I should imagine.
|
|
\/

[Lycanthromancer]

The slowness of dwarfs is off.

-2 Dex +2 con
Stability from dwarves
40 ft move
Low light vision

Call it a night

I edited my textiness earlier.

[ericgrau]

So is that now a medium creature? Half-man, half-pony?

[Lycanthromancer]

So is that now a medium creature? Half-man, half-pony?

My Little(r) Pony.

[NeoVid]

It's large...It's not meant to be +0 LA...

When the exact mechanics of determining LA was shown, Wizards said that Large size is not worth an adjustment by itself due to having as many disadvantages as bonuses. Most Large creatures are LA + due to having 10 foot reach, which doesn't apply to the centaur.

Of course, the official mechanics for LA should be taken with a grain of salt, since they say that Small size is LA -1 despite being hugely advantageous for one penalty.

Anyway, the centaur gets its LA from natural armor and having massively cranked-up stats. So get rid of those, and it's covered.

[Behold_the_Void]

Also doesn't being large primarily benefit melee characters? They need all the help they can get.

[Thurbane]

If it helps, Races of the Wild has a racial class progression for the Centaur, so you can play it from 1st level.

[Fizban]

Planar Handbook has the Bariaur, a medium sized Outsider version of the centaur for +1 LA. If you dropped the SR you could probably drop it to LA +0 as long as you play up the penalties of having four legs.

[Eldariel]

-2 Dex +2 con
Stability from dwarves
40 ft move
Low light vision

I don't think -2 Dex sits well on a friggin' HORSE. I'd rather toss 'em +2 Str, -2 Int (or +2 Dex, possibly; Centaur's adjustments are +8 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, +2 Wis, +0 Cha) and call it a day. And toss away Stability, they pretty much get those benefits from their size anyways; leave them at Large - Long and you're done.

Alternatively +4 Str/+2 Dex/+2 Con/-2 Int and call it LA +1; using LA buyoff rules and substituting -1 Generic Penalty for LA until it's bought off, that should be fine.

[BobVosh]

I don't think -2 Dex sits well on a friggin' HORSE.

I have never seen a horse do anything particularly dexterous. I just always imagine horselike people as not very dexterous. I dunno why. Just figured they wouldn't be good at fine manipulation. However it definitely does hurt the archer centaur stereotype. I can see it being a str or con race for sure though. -2 int seems fine as well.

[Bayar]

Planar Handbook has the Bariaur, a medium sized Outsider version of the centaur for +1 LA. If you dropped the SR you could probably drop it to LA +0 as long as you play up the penalties of having four legs.

Dropping the SR, switching outsider type with monstrous humanoid, removing the gore attack...what else can we butcher out of the Bariaur to turn it into a LA 0 race ?

[HCL]

Large(long), no reach

[Random832]

Stability from dwarves

Um, Centaurs have four legs, which A) already gets the same bonus as stability B) doesn't stack with stability.

[Zovc]

Why would you want to have two waists? That'd be weird.

[jiriku]

Why would you want to have two waists? That'd be weird.

Perhaps if you had a fetish for wearing fashionable belts.

[Sinfire Titan]

Perhaps if you had a fetish for wearing fashionable belts.

Too many of them.

[UglyPanda]

This is a nitpick, but you're not nerfing the centaur. Nerfing would mean you're making it weaker. However, with the removal of LA and the possible removal of Racial Hit Dice, you're making the centaur more viable as a race choice.

So you're not nerfing, you're adapting. Sure you could say you're using the word to mean you're simply weakening it, but you're weakening it to make it stronger. It's more like pruning an overgrown tree.

[Sliver]

Too many of them.

Curse you! Why?! Why?! It's like a save-or-lose!

[Blackfang108]

Curse you! Why?! Why?! It's like a save-or-lose!

No. It's a Real-Life Maze spell.

Roll a DC 17 INT check for me. Once every hour.

[ericgrau]

When the exact mechanics of determining LA was shown, Wizards said that Large size is not worth an adjustment by itself due to having as many disadvantages as bonuses. Most Large creatures are LA + due to having 10 foot reach, which doesn't apply to the centaur.

Correct, large size has a lot of combat penalites and small size has a lot of bonuses. Heck, a reduce person spell is a buff if you target a rogue. But when you use special attacks, large size is a whopping +4. LA must be balanced assuming the character uses the race optimally, not poorly. If you're only trying to land hits with a large race instead of also tossing your enemy around, you're doing it wrong.

Anyway if you think -2 dex, +2 con doesn't match a centuar well enough, try +2 str, -2 int. But really I suggest the OP use whatever he prefers.

[Solaris]

No. It's a Real-Life Maze spell.

Roll a DC 17 INT check for me. Once every hour.

See, you gotta get the Net Jockey PrC. It gives you a bonus to resist the TV Tropes spell, and a per-minute save rather than per-hour with a cumulative +1.

[dspeyer]

Let's try this:

+2 str, -2 dex
Speed 50

Large but with medium arms. When a centaur attack with a weapon in its hands, treat it as one size category smaller than it actually is (for weapon damage, reach, attack penalty, etc.). A centaur making an unarmed strike may choose whether to punch (as a medium creature) or kick (as a large one).

Centaurs gain a +2 racial bonus to attacks using longbows

Naturally Mounted (Ex): When charging and not carrying a rider, a centaur may be considered mounted if it is beneficial to do so. Furthermore, centaurs are treated as having the mounted combat feat and may use ranks in balance in place of ranks in ride for purposes of fulfilling prerequisites (but only for that purpose).

Favored Class: ranger

Centaurs as mounts:
Some centaurs consent to carrying medium humanoids on their backs. Any centaur may spend 1 skill point to qualify as "trained for riding". Centaurs carrying riders never require reins, so the riders hands are free for other purposes.