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Thread: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
ACFs that make you Weaker
So there are some Alternate class features that just make you stonger with no downside.
Kalsha Soulknife, and raptorian fighter* come to mind
*give up heavy armour profiecny for the ability to fly in medium load - you can't fly in med/heavy armour (unless BULK stong) so without this you'ld be wearing light...
Then there are some that just make you weaker.
For example the one from Cityscape web enhancment (IIRC)
that lets you trade the Druids animal compainion - one of the most powerful class features out - (Fighter as class feature, ftw)
For a familar as a wizard of you druid lvl.
familars - proably the most ignored class feature of all time.
what other weakening ACF's are there?There is nothing on earth that we share; it is either Valjean or Javert!
"A wizard can in fact be thought of the custodian to a familiar, a terrifying beast that charges its foes, slashing them to shreds while delivering their master's touch spells and bestowing upon their masters incredible bonuses to their hp or skill checks. A wizard is nearly powerless without one."
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2009-10-30, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
shapeshift Variant Druid.
Battle Sorc.
Savage Bard.
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2009-10-30, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Savage bard is fine, it gives you a good fort save.
Sorcerer's divine companion in Complete Champion is way less useful than a familiarPlay By Post characters
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2009-10-30, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Spell-less ranger.
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2009-10-30, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Shapeshift Druid, it's one of the biggest nerfs there is.
Any Immediate Magic other than Abrupt Jaunt.
Most of the Wizard ACFs in UA, where you trade in Bonus spells from Specialisation, Familiar or your bonus feats. Notable exceptions are Rapid Summoning (excellent for Malconvoker) and Chains of Disbelief (good for Shadowcraft Mage).
Arrow Mind, Bladestorm, Arrow Storm, to name a few.
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2009-10-30, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
the rogue variant (brute?)
Lose sneak attack, gain bonus feats as a fighter....
wow. Thanks for that.
I'll throw in charisma being the spell-thief casting stat, since it's just one of a long line of charisma casters that makes shoddy sense. (I want assassin level synergy, damn it!)
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2009-10-30, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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2009-10-30, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Sunnydale
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Champion of the Wild (Complete Champion) also works well with the archery Ranger/Scout, as it delivers all the feat prerequisites for Greater Manyshot. Take a normal move and you're good for 4 bowshots with Improved Skirmish (normal +2d6) damage on every shot.
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2009-10-30, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Eh. My current character makes good use of Champion of the Wild. I'm doing a mounted archer, and I had to jump through so many hoops to get a viable animal companion to ride that my spellcasting would've been late and weak anyway. Yeah, sure, arrow storm is a nice spell... but when you get one casting per day at the level that the real casters are getting wish and miracle, it's kind of lacking something. I'd rather have the mess of feats.
Play your character, not your alignment.
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2009-10-30, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Spell less paladin is also useful if you're going to be PrC'ing out of Paladin, considering that alot of decent PrC for them lack spell casting advancement, and do require feat heavy builds.
The UA druid that gives up Wild Shape for monk abilities is pretty sucktastic.
The domain wizard seems pretty weak.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2009-10-30, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
The Wizard ACF that trades the bonus feat list with that of a fighter. What is my wizard going to do with Combat Expertise? Whirlwind Attack? Two-Weapon Fighting? I'd rather take Spell Mastery, thank-you very much. Actual Metamagic feats are even better.
Unless you're building a Gish, it's not worth it. Even then, you have to think carefully.
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2009-10-30, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Erutnevda
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
What's weak about the domain wizard? You give up the ability to specialize for an extra spell of every level per day and in your spellbook. It might be a predetermined spell but it's still better than nothing. It allows you to retain the versatility you lose by going specialist or focused specialist while giving you an extra spell of every level.
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2009-10-30, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Cause this is DnD. Specialization >>> Versatility. It's easy to not loose anything of value when specializing. Hell, even Focused Specialization is often a good deal.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2009-10-30, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Setting (As in "Desert", "Frozen wasteland", "Ocean") specific ACFs count?
'cus there's those things that lets you breathe underwater for X rounds, swim faster, or resist mirages/desert heat, which seems mighty weaksauce unless you are in quite specific situations alot.
Since they probably don't:
Spell sense seems a bit useless, and the Half Elf Fighter doesn't seem to be worth it.Last edited by Dixieboy; 2009-10-30 at 07:40 PM.
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2009-10-30, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
I'd say... Drow of the Underdark's Drow Bard. Lose bardic knowledge, gain poison use.
Or the Favored Soul ACF the replaces energy resistance with tremorsense. Out to 5 feet. With like.. a 3/day use.trill in da playground
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2009-10-30, 08:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-10-30, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
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2009-10-30, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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2009-10-30, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Bards have Healing Hymn which costs them Fascinate. This means they lose Suggestion and Mass Suggestion as well, which is a terrible sacrifice.
They also have Inspire Turning which is far too situational. Turning undead isn't something you typically do all the time, and no way the cleric should need the bard's help.How to Play Rogues Properly:
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2009-10-30, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: ACFs that make you Weaker
Eh, I've used that sub before - if you only have 1 level of bard then the poison use can be better - though there are better things to swap bardic knowledge for anyhow.
Spontaneous Summoning for the conjurer is pretty awful (swap out a spell to spontaneously cast a SM spell 1 level lower, lose bonus spells).
Half-Elf Fighter and Half-Orc Paladin (Races of Destiny) are both quite disappointing, especially considering that Half-Elf Bard and Half-Orc Druid are both useful and cool.Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
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